The Webcomic Manifesto: Conceiving

-Yanagi-San- · Post by **-Yanagi-San-** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:41 pm

I have to agree with razi- There's little difference between the 'Spot and the 'Space to you if you can rise to the top of the Keenspace heap O' webcomics. And as a side note, I've never run into this "keenspace comics are crap" attitude outside of the Keenspot community itself. Odd, huh?

Krazy Krow · Post by **Krazy Krow** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:42 pm

I wonder if this thread would have gotten 100 replies if Keenspace hadn't crashed just as it was posted.

I think it was around September that Keenspot was no longer my goal. Sure it'd be nice, but I can do just as well by doing my own promotional work, selling my own merchandise, getting my own books printed, etc. There's a greater financial cost doing it this way, but I still think webcomics is a relatively cheap hobby once bandwidth is paid for.

-Yanagi-San- · Post by **-Yanagi-San-** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:46 pm

I lost avid interest in keenspot when I found out how comics get spotted. However, that's not to say I don't have a passive interest (Ex: if they ask, I won't say no). But the conditions are almost the same between 'Space and Spot. As long as i'm happy, I don't care. And I'm still serious about my webcomic! ^_^ I was serious from day 1. However, I am a little miffed about the "cafepress" merchandising, where they make you pay $20 for a T-shirt. But, hey, that's life. ^^

:Razi Oak: · Post by **:Razi Oak:** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:53 pm

Getting famous was never my goal, however after picking up the MT book today, and seeing the waste others had freelanced in stores, I've started to think quite seriously about how how nice it would be to hold a NetherOak book...

*dreams*

Ah well, when I'm done I'll just print them all out and glue them back to back in a binder!

I'm doing all this for me and my girlfriend anyways. She is the driving force behind my art and my story.

Saganaki · Post by **Saganaki** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:54 pm

[quote="-Yanagi-San-"]I have to agree with razi- There's little difference between the 'Spot and the 'Space to you if you can rise to the top of the Keenspace heap O' webcomics. And as a side note, I've never run into this "keenspace comics are crap" attitude outside of the Keenspot community itself. Odd, huh?

Ghastly · Post by **Ghastly** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:55 pm

Yes, Cafepress merchandising is a little lopsided in their favour. You can't mark up a single item more than $2 or else you'll end up pricing it too high for anyone to want to buy.

When I add up all the money my webcomic's merchandise has made for Cafepress and then look at how much money my webcomic's merchandise has made me, the deal is horribly lopsided. It's not that I mind only making $2 per item sold, I have no problem with that. But if Cafepress would lower their take on each item (and they can lower their end 30% and still make a profit) then I'd be selling even more merchandise.

-Yanagi-San- · Post by **-Yanagi-San-** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:14 pm

saganaki wrote:Hate to burst your bubble here, but clicky.

The bias against Keenspace comics is indeed out there and beyond the keen community.

Heh. Funny! ^^
First I've seen of it. Doesn't bother me though.

Woohoo! I'm keenspace! I'll flaunt my comic whereever I damn well please! Booya! Read me!

*points up at post* ^^; Weirdness that lives in my head and needs to run around the room like a cat on crack sometimes, or it gets no exercise.

:Razi Oak: · Post by **:Razi Oak:** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:21 pm

Comfortingly enough, all of those comics sucked.

Krazy Krow · Post by **Krazy Krow** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:22 pm

Keenspace's reputation can't be helped, with any free hosting service you'll generally have lower quality. Kinda like Geocities. I almost feel guilty now, I once had a rant in my newsbox saying, "I rank gaming comics slightly below Geocities webpages of dark gothic poetry!"

:Razi Oak: · Post by **:Razi Oak:** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:24 pm

And yet I find that accurate and amusing. Huzzah!

Jaster! · Post by **Jaster!** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:25 pm

Cafepress apparently lowers their prices if you sell a certain number of said item. Sell 20 shirts, and after that you'll make an additional $2 off of most items, and you get further profit add ons if you keep selling stuff, so it's really a matter of just how much merchandise you're pumping out. If you sell a lot, you'll actually do ok. It's still lopsided, but they're getting the stuff, printing, and delivering it, which I'm far too lazy to do, especially in small quantities, so I have no gripes with Cafe Press whatsoever.

The only Keen comic I saw on that list was "Life's so Rad", which I think is Keenspot, isn't it? Oh, and maybe some of the furry porn sites are Keenspace. I dunno, whatever, in my opinion those are almost always instantly bad anyway, so they don't count.

Saganaki · Post by **Saganaki** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:25 pm

Krazy Krow wrote:Keenspace's reputation can't be helped, with any free hosting service you'll generally have lower quality. Kinda like Geocities. I almost feel guilty now, I once had a rant in my newsbox saying, "I rank gaming comics slightly below Geocities webpages of dark gothic poetry!"

Point. Keenspace is free, and thus attracts a lot of people who have no talent, but want to give this whole "webcomic" thing a try because "hey, it's free! what have I got to lose?"

Sortelli · Post by **Sortelli** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:13 pm

saganaki wrote:Point. Keenspace is free, and thus attracts a lot of people who have no talent, but want to give this whole "webcomic" thing a try because "hey, it's free! what have I got to lose?"

I gave this whole webcomic thing a try because Keenspace was free, and my early comics were wacky crapola. I'd have been hard pressed to find another cartoonist to say I had any talent beyond employing a catch phrase before I started figuring this whole thing out. But I've grown beyond that since then (hopefully) and I wouldn't have been able to do that if it hadn't been for the opportunity Keenspace provided.

I don't really want to be Spotted anymore. Honestly, at this point, I couldn't say that I'd be ready to go Spot if I had the opportunity. Maybe later when I've nailed my visual style, my site layout, and gathered as large of a reader base as I can on my own. People still read my comic regardless, and that's all I really want.

No matter what stereotypes can be applied to Keenspace at large, I don't think anyone says "Gosh, this comic made me laugh but it's on Keenspace therefore it isn't actually good". I also don't think that people say "Wow! This comic hasn't updated since Christ was born, the artist is too busy complaining that his parents read his live journal! But it's on KeenSPOT, so it must be okay!" Frankly, I couldn't care less whether or not anyone feels like Keenspot is better than Keenspace.

Keenspot is only a very tiny sampling of webcomics at large. Of the comics I read, Keenspot accounts for only a few of them. The fact that Keen takes the trouble to host any idiot with a keyboard and MS Paint for nothing is something I appreciate, even if I never, ever, ever make it to the exhaulted inner circle. I think it's wrong to accuse Keenspot of playing favorites while they fight a losing battle to support free comic hosting for the masses.

Saganaki · Post by **Saganaki** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:35 pm

Have I ever mentioned that I'm furiously envious of you, Sortelli?

Sortelli · Post by **Sortelli** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:37 pm

You wouldn't be if you saw the old, old, old original Elf Only Inn comics.

Saganaki · Post by **Saganaki** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:41 pm

Do they still exist online?

Besides, my early comics were likely worse...

UnFan? · Post by **UnFan?** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:41 pm

Sortelli wrote:You wouldn't be if you saw the old, old, old original Elf Only Inn comics.

Show them. Show them!

ZOMBIE USER 13217 · Post by **ZOMBIE USER 13217** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:43 pm

-Yanagi-San- wrote:Woohoo! I'm keenspace! I'll flaunt my comic whereever I damn well please!

I would too, if my DAMN DOMAIN NAME WOULD WORK >_<

Sortelli · Post by **Sortelli** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:44 pm

Someday I'll salvage them from my nearly ten year old PC... let's just say they were cut and paste STICK FIGURES and it was posted on a Geocities page.

Saganaki · Post by **Saganaki** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:46 pm

*shudders at the thought, then grumbles at pencil leads