Honesty time!

Postby Kita Chan on Tue Apr 09, 2002 12:45 pm

...Ill have you know that I just went threw a long and difficult process to get my password for my name just so I could say something here.

First of all, Meredith, asking for critique was a bold thing to do; because I'm sure both of us know that there are people out there who will go out of there way just to say something nasty. However, without critique, how do us artists improve? (Yes, I too am a artist and am currently building a keenspace page.)

Secondly, to WHOMEVER it was that said they would be ashamned to be Meredith. Guess what buddy, NO ONE ASKED FOR THAT COMMENT. That aint critique, thats a blant insult. Critique is said to someone so they may improve. Besides, I'de rather have her like the way she is then have her be acting like you.

As for the whole 'funny comic' vrs 'soap opera'. Personally I liked it when it was funny, and I still like it now! It has jsut turned into a more story line, which I enjoy. And if I didnt enjoy it, I wouldnt read it...and if you dont enjoy it, then dont read it.

Next thing is the colouring issue. personally I would like to see it CGed more. (Meredith, you dont give yourself enough credit, its just as good as your marker work.) Or I would like to see some otjher colours in the panels rather then just grey's and browns. After awhile, it gets tedious and boring on my eyes. But then again, Im a fan for bright colours!

As for telling Penny and Neomi apart...I have problems with that myself! Atfirst in the comic that Delegato finds out Penny is his sister I thought it was talking about Neomi! ...Lol, imagine how confused I was. @_@ Again, the different colours would change this confusion greatly. Or other more noticable differences would be nice.

Any way...I think thats all I have to say...except its kinda odd how many people here dont know the meaning between critique and insult. What I mean is, can YOU tell the difference in the following between critique and insult?

"The nose in the picture looks a little big."

"SHE LOOKS LIKE AN ELEPHANT!"

~Kita
"We sang the songs that carried in their melodies all the sounds of nature - the running waters, the sighing of winds, and the calls of the animals. Teach these to your children so that they may come to love nature as we love it." ~Grand Council Fire
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Postby Drooling Fan Girl on Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:07 am

I hope you don't mind my talking about the story rather than the art.

I find the story a bit confusing to follow.
For me reading a story is kind of like taking a walk in the woods.

Something with a strong a plotline would be almost like those paved path nature hikes with every tree labled (or even Disney's Jungle ride, ick).

Stories with little or no plotline can be sort of like being dumped in the middle of a uncharted forest with no idea where you are, and no idea how to get home.

Great stories can be done on any point of the continuum between these two points.

But I find that the nature of webcomics can make it very hard to follow stories with less of a plotline (i'm only talking about those webcomics with a story to them).

With ngti, sometimes I have a feeling like I'm not quite lost in the woods, but I'm not sure what directions I'm going or even how I've gotten there. I guess maybe I would like a slightly stronger plot? As always, this is your baby, I'm just along for the ride.

Take Care
DFG

p.s. Plus I miss the cute little witches outfits! And I want to see Kiwi bird somemore!!!

p.p.s. to hanko-- :razz:~~~~~~~
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Postby Hanako on Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:06 pm

Hello all
It's me with my barrel of sunshine again, and shock of shocks, Meredith, I do have something positive for you *GASP.* Receiving such warm compliments from your Boi "Nick," made me curious to check into his site. It would be to your advantage if he posted his art next to yours. Compared to his, you're a supernatural Picasso!

So Kita, why was getting a password so difficult? Hopefully you, being a cartoonist too, will be better at art than at the strenuous task of typing a password and clicking the "submit" button. Hardly brilliant were you. If the subject were sports and I was on your team, I would want to transfer immediately.

With All Honesty,

Hanako ^_~
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Postby Drooling Fan Girl on Wed Apr 10, 2002 10:29 pm

You know, hanko (that means like a japanese name seal, correct?), I find you to be a facinating person.

You have posted only 7 times, perhaps only in this thread.

You do tend to take a rather hostile tone towards all, especially Kiwi.

Yet for this you seem to feel comfortable refering to her by her first name. And you seem to have some knowlege of her personal life.

"Meredith may have a life, but the rest of you it is questionable. Well Nick, I understand you drove quite a distance to see Meredith--what a shame (hope you received a refund)! "

I can only conclude that 'Hanko' is perhaps a secondary nickname and you have some sort of personal grudge against Kiwi. It is quite possible I am wrong, but in the long run, I'm sure that doesn't matter.

Take Care
DFG

P.S. Terribly sorry for having strayed so far from the actual topic.
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Postby Langlang on Thu Apr 11, 2002 4:01 am

(Dennis has been doing a reasarch paper about the public opinon of comics as an art form for the past month, he's very into the subject right now)



Coincidence, My Junior Research paper for school was on comics too. Got an A- on it. go me! And good luck to you :smile:


on another note. In defense, when an artists asks for critiques, it's a chance of finding the points that they can improve on with their style, not a belittling session. Frankly on the Hanako deal, even though it's not toward me, it hurts. To me, I felt like a little kid, showing their teacher or parent a picture they drew that they worked hard and was very proud of and then ripped to shreds in front of their face.

I've seen Kiwi improve lots since her first comic like many fans here. An Artist's style is always in a constant change to strive for improvement and finding the individuality. She's got talent and she loves to do art. And I'm proud of her and looking forward to go to college with her.

I've babbled enough..later

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: langlang on 2002-04-11 05:24 ]</font>
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Postby Hanako on Thu Apr 11, 2002 5:44 am

Drooling Fan Girl (I take it that name does not refer to some mental retardation illness, though your etymology could qualify). Yes.. you must be right--"Hanako" (my REAL name), must be a secret secondary name, and I'm glad you find me "Facinating." On the same, note I find you "Fascinating," as well. You're still reading past posts? Your schooling has paid off (but where on earth did you attend?).

Lang Lang, reading your post I take it that you're a very sensitive person. Just do me a favor--could you point out to me where Meredith is improving? Where did her improvement begin??

Have A Nice Day :smile:

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Postby Kita Chan on Thu Apr 11, 2002 7:13 am

Hanaka, it was hard to get my password because I have not posted on forums for a very long time, and have forgotten what my password was, as well as which e-mail address i applied to this with. Thus even by simply clicking "I forgot my password" I had to wait awhile for the e-mail to be sent, then check all my e-mail address for it...not so easy as typing it in and hitting submit, now is it?

Kita
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Postby Drooling Fan Girl on Thu Apr 11, 2002 10:56 am

Dear me, I have misspelled a word, and must now fly into a complete rage at the implied 'insult' at having mental retardation, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

I looked up etymology at dictionary.com. It is "The origin and historical development of a linguistic form as shown by determining its basic elements, earliest known use, and changes in form and meaning, tracing its transmission from one language to another, identifying its cognates in other languages, and reconstructing its ancestral form where possible."

Now this honestly confuses me. Poor spelling and grammar are not the same as etymology. So I'm not quite sure what you are refering to, when you say "though your etymology could qualify" me for having mental retardation.

*shrug*


As for my schooling, I assume you are refering to my question about what the word Hanko means? That I learned recently when I needed to find out some information about Japan. I wasn't quite sure, so I asked you.
...

Ah, now I see, your pardon, I misread your nickname Hanako as Hanko. No, that's not poor etymology, that's just poor eye sight.

What I was saying is that I believe that you know and have spoken with Kiwi under another nickname. Possibly you have some personal grudge against her? And that you post here in order to satify a need you seem to have to attack people and draw attention to yourself. But still remain safe as it were, unknown. I find you fascinating because I wonder why you are doing this.

Anyways, I've spent a bit too much time on this post as it is. I appoligize for any mistakes that remain, but I've never claimed to be perfect.

Take Care
DFG
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Postby Kappo on Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:08 am

Hanako --

I don't understand. Nobody's really saying anything to put you down.. but your statements towards them are less than kind... and I don't see where they're headed. Thus far, I have been able to derive a couple of points from your previous posts. They are:

1. Meredith's art sucks.
2. Everyone else is dumb.

While you are entitled to your own opinion, I don't think it's entirely necessary to infuriate others on this board intentionally. Controversy is fine... you don't make enemies with reasonable people of differing opinions. It's the people that you direct your assaults at...

Honestly, this bickering could go on forever, so I'd just like to encourage everyone to just drop it... no final words... nothing. Just go back to critiquing Meredith's work, as she had originally requested.

Thanks, guys.

~Kap
"I feel like I can take on the world today!" ~Tetsuo, "Akira"
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Postby Meredith Gran on Thu Apr 11, 2002 1:05 pm

Kindly stop replying and get on with the criticism. If you reply to this argument again, I will delete your reply, just a warning. It is pointless that this is still going on - there's nothing to fight about.

Thank you to everyone who has given me fair criticism so far. It's very helpful.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Meredith Gran on 2002-04-11 14:07 ]</font>
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Postby Langlang on Thu Apr 11, 2002 5:33 pm

To answer the sensitivity thing, yes I admit I am.

Mer, I have to a agree about the lines you draw. Bolding the lines on characters really help to bring them out of the background.

Also, since you color your strip with grayscale markers, don't over do the shading, getting overboard with it will cause the panels be a multi-shaded mess. (I always had to remind myself to go easy on the cross hatching for shadowing)

It's good that now your lettering has gotten bigger and consistant, but avoid using lower case for dialogues.

Perspective is getting better, keep practicing on close ups on the characters since I noticed you tend to draw close ups a lot.

Hope it helps

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: langlang on 2002-04-11 18:36 ]</font>
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Postby Hanako on Fri Apr 12, 2002 9:54 am

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Postby Hanako on Fri Apr 12, 2002 9:55 am

LOL
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Postby Smartz118 on Mon Apr 15, 2002 4:10 pm

Okay before I critize the comic, I would have to ask you guys to stop arguing. You are supposed to discuss the comic, not insult the living hell out of each other. As said before, this is for Mer's benefit, not only your own. Now where was I...

Colors- So far you are doing great, but maybe you can use brighter or more colorful colors. The brownish tone makes the mood kinda dark.

Script-Just something I want to clear up for readers. YES, I know at times it's not really a funny comic. Not all comics have to be. For instance, Dick Tracy. Hardly any humor was used in every comic. Besides, comic writers make their scripts weeks, even MONTHS in advance.

Dialogue- Dialogue is good, very good in fact. Keep it up. Just don't make them too complicated.

Other than that, Meridith is doing a great job. :grin:
"I am so smart! I am so smart! S-M-R-T! I mean, S-M-A-R-T!"<P>"Roads are a suggestion. Like pants."
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Postby Hanako on Tue Apr 16, 2002 4:18 am

Smartz,

Thank you for clearing up the confusion of this post. A living fountain of information you are not.
Actually, I enjoy a comic that can be serious from time-to-time. In my opinion, you can understand the characters better when an emotional piece is involved, so it's good that Meredith has balanced the comdey with reality (though with this particular comic, comedy is essential). However, I still wish she'd kill that bird, and her characters still need work... a LOT of work.

With Sincerity,

Hanako
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Postby Nekoshonen!!! on Fri Jul 05, 2002 4:04 pm

AAAAH!! J3T and Kiwi in the same thread..? *passes out in ecstacy*

erhhmm, sorry about that....

Anyways, on topic, I am one of the people hwo have been reading since (I think) May or June 2001...so I've been here quite some time, just not as long as others. i am also the kind of person who will check a comic every day, even if they are not supposed to update that day, just in case. I am also very much a manga-kun (so I live for comics like NGTI, Lang-Lang, and Megatokyo, even though it's not a furry comic). i am the kind of person who arrived at Genericon less than two hours before it ended because a friend of mine who went told me that you were there, a fact I somehow missed in the news updates, in hopes of meeting you (which I didn't, but said friend did get you to do a 'Gats sketch for me, which I will treasure forever. Also, your comic is the one that made me decide that I wanted to start my own. Now that you know where I'm coming from, these should be taken with a grain of salt..I'm hardly the average reader. First: your art style. In general..don't do a thing different. Having your own unique style is vital to sucess of any artistic medium, and yours is quite unique, especially with the marker shading. While I do agree with some of the points that the others made (ie misplaced objects, close-up faces but not much of the rest), I wouldn't have noticed them on my own. Again, I must emphasize the base style of your art shuld remain exactly how it is, or at least continue to evolve on it's own like it has since the beginning without any influence by the people on this or any board. Also, Penny and Naomi will still occasionally confuse even me...and I had been going by the eyes and bangs to tell them apart, unless plot gave it away in a situation. Perhaps you might pull a Josh Mirman and alter their styles of dress enough to limit further confusion..nah, bad idea. Anyways, that's about all I can think of...Like..someone, forgot who, said...if we have to nitpick to find anything worth complaining about, then there isn't a problem.

Oh, one last thing...bring back Kiwi! That also provides an excuse for more comic relief...you know, the switch-between two-plots technique?
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Postby RebLaw on Mon Dec 09, 2002 5:45 pm

wow, this is an old post, but there aren't many more newer... basically Meredith, you're a very good artist, yes you have some rough edges, but I think your lastest change really helped... right now the only advice I can offer is.. use a ruler for the edges of the boxes :-)

I'm probably posting in a dead forum oh well..
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