How are you doing, comic-wise?

[robotthepirate]

I'm 5 pages into RTP since I came back to it! Wasn't sure I could make todays deadline as I've had a few pretty hectic weeks (moving house and getting a dog) but I did. Then I forgot to actually upload the comic, but it's up now. At some point I'll have to update my news blog thing on the matter.

Was advertising a bit before the move too. I'll have to get back to that.

Oh and don't I owe someone a review. Must get to that.

[McDuffies]

Just finished page 50 for ToP, my first milestone.

Ha HA, I also completed my first milestone! Four pages!

Well...three pages and a cover page...

Yeah, it's definitely more piddly. I'm still totally celebrating, though.

You have enough pages for the number of non-opposable digits on a human hand!

Just imagine the glorious day when that will include opposable digits!

[Ti-Phil]

It all start with 4 pages and it will go further with time!

[Sortelli]

oh god the writing is killing me

So the last page I posted has a woman hanging in an apparent suicide (spoilers it was actually MURDER) and I... I swear to god the natural thing I wrote for the last panel of the following page is Ariandre saying that "Someone left her hanging."

And then I realized that was a straight up CSI callback. All Ari needs to do now is slip on some sunglasses while the guy from the Who sings YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. God DAMMIT.

[IVstudios]

Just about finished with chapter 6, so I put out a call for guest art!

I'm cross-posting it here because I'm a whore.

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

Finished coloring and painting two pages today!! Editing them both tomorrow so they can be uploaded this week. Crossing my fingers that I can get back on this update wagon for a little while.

Oh, and all you pupinos are encouraged to come read the interviewI had with [geoduck] a ways back! Come learn facts about The Mansion of E that you may have pondered but never known!

[LibertyCabbage]

Oh, and all you pupinos are encouraged to come read the interviewI had with [geoduck] a ways back! Come learn facts about The Mansion of E that you may have pondered but never known!

Nice! S'cool reading about a webcomic with so much history.

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

Oh, and all you pupinos are encouraged to come read the interviewI had with [geoduck] a ways back! Come learn facts about The Mansion of E that you may have pondered but never known!

Nice! S'cool reading about a webcomic with so much history.

It was fun to do! I feel bad about not having published it much earlier and closer to the anniversary. Hopefully [geoduck] gets some hits out of it regardless

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

I was doing a "then-and-now" comparison with my older comics to see how certain character portrayals have changed in my art over time. I noticed for one thing that I used to draw heads even longer than I do now, and that Clarabelle was often not as plump as she ought to be.

But then I got to my prom storyline and actually... kinda got caught up in just plain old reading it I think I really hit a stride during that chapter, which is interesting given how damn long it took me to finish it. But I think the writing is pretty serviceable and the art (if you ignore my negligence of backgrounds) was rather smooth and full. I hope I'll be able to get back to that; I've had a lot of fun drawing the most recent pages and I think narratively I'm on an upswing again, but I've settled into a less polished style these days. I think it suits the storyline and outdoorsy feel I'm going for with this chapter, and I couldn't imagine doing this chapter had it not been for the introduction of paints to my coloring repertoire, but some of those pages- some of the faces and stuff- just looked so nice.

Fuck, did I peak artistically already??? But I'm so young : (

(I don't think I'd go back to coloring the way I did during the prom chapter, though. As nice as it may have looked on some pages, it was also a crutch for laziness, and somehow despite that managed to take way more time than it currently takes me to color and edit. I could spend two hours just doing the digital work for those pages, and now it's rare for it to take me more than a half hour, and even most of that is just tedious taking erroneous paint strays out of dialogue balloons and so forth. I feel much less loath to scan my pages. Before I was always reluctant to do it because I never got to the poitn where I enjoyed working digitally that way, not to mention the constant temptation to go on the internet and waste a bunch of time).

BLAH BLAH BLAH I WAS THE STAR QUARTERBACK IN HIGH SCHOOL AND NOWADAYS I SOMETIMES SNEAK INTO THE YARD TO PRETEND I MADE THAT FINAL TOUCHDOWN

ughghghg I just hope a. I can build up and maintain a bit of momentum to push further through the current chapter and b. that other people will like it as much as I do. Yknever know, man. I mean, the prom chapter started off slow and then got pretty good after a while. Maybe this chapter will be like that. As logn as I'm a step or two above where I was last chapter- and LC, I'll hope you'll be able to provide feedback for that someday - it feels better now that I'm not worried about deadlines because that makes me less likely to rush backgrounds, and the fact that thanks to painting the page is essentially finished by the time it reaches the scanner is a big help as well.

SORRY GUYS IT'S 1 AM AND I'M TWO GLASSES IN AND YOU GET TO HEAR ABOUT MY MANIACAL WHINING

did I mention I got two projectwonderful clicks from Questionable Content? For some reason I feel that there could be some good audience overlap there which is why I decided to advertise there, hopefully this will bring some more folks around to watch my amateur cooking show. I think for a while I'll just advertise there and Hark A Vagrant which has given me a nice click rate in previous attempts. For a while I was advertising on Pictures of You but there's a chapter break now and the creator took away the comments section which I'm wondering if it will decrease his audience somewhat but what the fuck ever I am LITERALLY just rambling now sorry lovies<3333333333333 ~~~~ 0v0

[JSConner800]

You've got a rare gift for rambling, Cuddly, and I mean that in the best way possible

not to mention the constant temptation to go on the internet and waste a bunch of time).

I know this feeling all too well. The internet is a creativity vacuum, and it's appalling how much I can get done when I don't have access to it. I've just started my last semester of college, and I happen to have a good four hour chunk of time on campus between classes. I deliberately don't bring my laptop and stay away from computer labs, grab an ice blended mocha from the Coffee Bean (it's hot as balls in Long Beach right now), and in this way I can crank out about three or four script/storyboard pages, do my homework, and go to the gym all in that four hour period. If I were at home, I would probably spend an hour on Facebook, an hour on Youtube, at least another hour on I don't even know what, and about 30 minutes (non-consecutive) on one script page. I think I need to hire someone to steal my modem, because I can't unplug it myself.

At least I'll be productive as long as the semester lasts

[LibertyCabbage]

BLAH BLAH BLAH I WAS THE STAR QUARTERBACK IN HIGH SCHOOL AND NOWADAYS I SOMETIMES SNEAK INTO THE YARD TO PRETEND I MADE THAT FINAL TOUCHDOWN

That you're actually reading your own webcomic and gauging its quality is a good sign. Complacency is the biggest problem you need to worry about, and results will come as long as you're trying to improve, even if it's more long-term than would be preferable.

and LC, I'll hope you'll be able to provide feedback for that someday

I already read the webcomic regularly, so the feedback part comes naturally after that.

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

BLAH BLAH BLAH I WAS THE STAR QUARTERBACK IN HIGH SCHOOL AND NOWADAYS I SOMETIMES SNEAK INTO THE YARD TO PRETEND I MADE THAT FINAL TOUCHDOWN

That you're actually reading your own webcomic and gauging its quality is a good sign. Complacency is the biggest problem you need to worry about, and results will come as long as you're trying to improve, even if it's more long-term than would be preferable.

and LC, I'll hope you'll be able to provide feedback for that someday

I already read the webcomic regularly, so the feedback part comes naturally after that.

Thanks. I think it's about a year's turnaround before I can properly evaluate an old piece of work, where it's stale enough that I'm not attached to it anymore but neglected for long enough that I see it somewhat freshly. I can definitely see how right your comment was about chapter four being worse artistically than chapter 3. Even though backgrounds were sparse in both chapters* somehow it looked worse in 4. I think because i was getting so experimental with it. It was a weird time


*I didn't do a tally or anything, but it seems that in terms of backgrounds-
Chapter 3 had more backgrounds, but fewer had many details
Chapter 4 had less backgrounds, typically (as IV pointed out) having just one expository shot per page/scene, but the backgrounds that were included tended to have more detail.
Almost like I only have a certain amount of energy/work I can allot to backgrounds, and it either goes into quantity or quality. A dangerous pattern I'll need to be mindful of.

LC, what have you thought of the art thus far in the current chapter? It's very rough, and I am only pioneering into painting ability so I know it doesn't look any sort of professional, but does it seem less egregious than chapter four? (I know I'm walking a thin line between "deliberately unpolished" and "I literally lack the skills to make this particular panel look polished" but I like to think it fits with the nature setting and the "everyone's letting their hair down" kind of storyline... don't want to give myself too much leeway there though)

[LibertyCabbage]

Thanks. I think it's about a year's turnaround before I can properly evaluate an old piece of work, where it's stale enough that I'm not attached to it anymore but neglected for long enough that I see it somewhat freshly. I can definitely see how right your comment was about chapter four being worse artistically than chapter 3. Even though backgrounds were sparse in both chapters* somehow it looked worse in 4. I think because i was getting so experimental with it. It was a weird time

Chapter 4 just looks more rushed. It updated more frequently than Chapter 3 (29 pages in 5 months vs 60 pages in 13 months) and was done batch-style (from what I understand).

LC, what have you thought of the art thus far in the current chapter? It's very rough, and I am only pioneering into painting ability so I know it doesn't look any sort of professional, but does it seem less egregious than chapter four? (I know I'm walking a thin line between "deliberately unpolished" and "I literally lack the skills to make this particular panel look polished" but I like to think it fits with the nature setting and the "everyone's letting their hair down" kind of storyline... don't want to give myself too much leeway there though)

Since you asked, I think the art in Chapter 5 so far is worse than it was in Chapter 4. There needs to be wider shots and more effort put into the backgrounds. I'd describe the composition as feeling downright claustrophobic most of the time, which feels very wrong considering that the point of the chapter's to put the characters in a spacious, natural environment. In addition, like you said, it's supposed to be a fun, lighter chapter, but most of the backgrounds are so bland, repetitive, and minimalistic that I get the impression it's a tedious chore for you to draw them. So, the mood of the story and the backgrounds aren't on the same page. The more open backgrounds are a little better, but they still suffer from the triangles problem I noted and criticized in my reviews of Not So LOLCats, The Inexplicable Adventures of Bob!, and Chainmail Bikini.

I looked at some of Chapter 3 again to compare the backgrounds to Chapter 4, and I noticed that there's an outdoors scene. The backgrounds in these pages (35-37) are a lot better than anything in Chapter 5. It's possible that you're getting so caught up in trying an advanced technique like painting that you're getting distracted from the basics that you handled better in the past.

It might help you to think about what kind of backgrounds would actually be fun to draw and then to direct the story so that you can get to draw those backgrounds. Your characters are always the best part of the artwork, and it seems like you're actually having fun drawing them. The backgrounds feel more like they're there 'cause they're supposed to be and 'cause jerks like me complain about it. But as big of a problem as they are, they aren't going to look right until they're something you like to do instead of something you feel like you have to do.

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

Damn, I actually am having fun doing backgrounds now, too And I've been deliberately trying to do wider shot panels, like "the-grinch's-heart-grew-two-sizes-that-day"-style expanding what the shots would have been if I wasn't paying attention to them.

Oh, well. Sounds like I have more to work on than I expected.

[LibertyCabbage]

Maybe you should extend the chapter's page count, go down to one page a week, and do some art-centric pages that'll let you show off with some complicated shots. In any case, I think you should consider doing something extreme and sort of retrain yourself, because your art quality should really be improving rather than deteriorating.

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

I think it's mostly just that I didn't realize it had gotten so bad. Looking at the comparison to the page you posted it's obvious. I think I hit the nail on the head when I said earlier that backgrounds have been a quantity vs. quality thing for me.

Though now I'm really not sure, because I keep thinking of exceptions to that concept where I was able to maintain detailed backgrounds more often. I'm not really sure what instigated such a change. Like I really don't know why it seems like I stopped even trying to make backgrounds look artful. It wasn't deliberate, maybe it's just complacency like you said.

Thanks for all this excellent feedback. I'm glad to have it pointed out before I dig myself further into the hole. After all, you can't fix your problem until you can identify it. (As for the suggestion to modify page count/update schedule, I've kind of settled into "page goes up when it's ready." Maybe someday when I'm back on my game I'll have a proper update schedule again but at this point in time that was causing me more stress and acting as a discouragement instead of a motivational tool.)

I really appreciate the feedback I didn't draw the upcoming pages' backgrounds yet, so I'll put a heavier focus on them. I think I'll try to do something and set a goal like "Spend at least 45 minutes on the background for each page" or something, so that way I'm not just unintentionally in a race with myself, and can focus on depth and creativity. I might even do something fruity like find good backgrounds from old chapters and print them out to remind myself what I used to be capapble of

[LibertyCabbage]

I'd suggest looking at other how comics do backgrounds instead of concerning yourself with how Loud Era's backgrounds used to be, 'cause the comic's never really had great backgrounds. But yeah, I mean, at least the older stuff is proof that you can do better than what you're doing now.

I don't like the "45-minute backgrounds" idea because it's more of a band-aid fix. I'm talking about something more significant, like revising the script. Like, if you have four pages of dialogue scripted, make it cover seven pages and use the extra space for some pretty artwork. Or if a page has six panels scripted, split into a two-panel page and a four-panel page. Stuff like that. You're a great writer, but you don't want to be relying on your writing to carry weak artwork. I'd also like to see the "setting" aspect of writing worked with more, as it's currently being neglected while "characters" and "dialogue" take the forefront.

Thanks for all this excellent feedback. I'm glad to have it pointed out before I dig myself further into the hole.

It's unfortunate that I'm usually negative about the webcomic, 'cause I like reading it. I just can't ignore when it does things poorly that it either did better in the past or should be doing better by now.

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

Oh, yeah, me reminding myself of better times definitely wans't supposed to be a "this is all you can aspire to and should be your end goal" type of thing. Just an encouragement like "you can do better than you are currently, here's a reminder."

Regarding the expanding thumbnail script idea, I've kind of been doing that, I guess the best example being Joseph's running pages a few weeks ago. I'll keep it in mind, though I'm loath to extend scenes to more pages than necessary because, in my opinion, the story is already at a crawl, pacing wise. I understand where you're coming from, but I think if anything rather than making something take more than one page (and therefore having to reorganize the beats of each page) I'd rather just make longer pages if the situation calls for it.

My 45 minutes idea seems like a short term fix but it's really just to get me over the idea that I can just rush through a background. 45 minutes is just a random number, I'm not really sure how long I would make it. If I'm forced to spend time looking at each page in the context of "are these backgrounds the best they can be? no? well I still have 20 more minutes, let's see what we can improve on," I think that will help me get more comfortable with drawing backgrounds, more confident in my ability to see what contributes to a good background and elevates it from a lazy one, and help me visualize composition more easily going forward.

For as much as you are well aware of my issues with backgrounds, I'm afraid even all this is only the tip of the iceberg. It's a consistent issue through everything I've ever created, so I need to change my mindset about the drawing process itself before I'm able to change my mindset about applying it from a writer's perspective, if that makes any sense. I know that probably sounds backwards but I need to make what seem like small fixes before the big changes start taking place.

[RobboAKAscooby]

Reading your current dilemma makes me think about how much I need to work on backgrounds, at the moment they're practically non-existent.

Alas I have been focusing too much on getting my new style together coherently *ugh*, so backgrounds will probably have to wait until I get into the second story arc (just 5 more chapters, yay).

I am a currently a bit worried about the upcoming "event" that pretty much sets up the entire story/character arc(s) for the rest of Flying Tigers, it's not pleasant and I'm worried not only that I won't be able to carry it off tastefully enough but that I may also lose some (or all) of my rather small reader base after it happens. All I can really hope is that I've done enough to set it up and that my readers give me the benefit of the doubt and continue reading into the following chapters.

Also doesn't help that my mum has started reading it.

And I've got to start (or restart rather) working on the art Maelstrom Heart book two.

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

I am a currently a bit worried about the upcoming "event" that pretty much sets up the entire story/character arc(s) for the rest of Flying Tigers, it's not pleasant and I'm worried not only that I won't be able to carry it off tastefully enough but that I may also lose some (or all) of my rather small reader base after it happens. All I can really hope is that I've done enough to set it up and that my readers give me the benefit of the doubt and continue reading into the following chapters.

If it's what I think you're talking about, I might recommend you run it by us folks here first- first in a very basic script format, and then in very basic thumbnail format. This way we can help out before it gets to a point where you've already created a finished product. It's better in this case to critique while the production is happening than after the fact.

It is really, really difficult to do it tastefully. The main issues I see when people try to pull it off is 1. unintentionally (or intentionally, in some disturbing cases) fetishizing it, and 2. minimizing or misrepresenting the effects it has on the victim, just having them react in a way that seems blatantly weird and uninformed on the part of the writer.

Your mom reading it, weirdly enough, might actually be a good barometer here. A weird example, I guess, but I can watch Law & Order: SVU with my mom. I get the feeling if I was the one who directed or wrote one of the episodes, she wouldn't feel uncomfortable watching it just because I wrote it, because the writing in those shows tends to avoid the problems I mentioned in my above paragraph. Like, she'd feel uncomfortable because it's supposed to make you feel uncomfortable, but it's the situation being presented that's uncomfortable, not the way the show handles it. If anything I would say you could criticize that show for fetishizing the concept of justice, but that's different from the fetishization you see in mishandled storylines.