It's nice to see some consistent activity on these forums. They're rather quiet, and usually only a hand full of peeps post, so it's really great that this still plows on!LibertyCabbage wrote:Also, tomorrow will be exactly one year since I started this crazy thread. What up.
I'd say Tony and Aggie could use some more pages. The chess scene's a step in the right direction, but I guess it was, like, "Oh, hey, they finally got some attention."VeryCuddlyCornpone wrote:I have a question about that, actually. In your opinion, which of my characters could really use some more development? I think I have a pretty good idea of who I need to spend some extra time on vs. who I can leave alone for a little while (which is part of why, for instance, Marie and Eddie are not going to be featured in this chapter) but an outside opinion is always welcome. Of course, I wouldn't just shoehorn random storylines in so that the less explored characters have more time in the spotlight, but I want to be more thoughtful when those characters come up in the near future so that I can be sure I'm making the most out of their appearances.
It's funny, back when the forums were buzzing, I always used to wish there was more actual webcomic discussion going on. Now, there's finally more webcomic discussion, but the people aren't around anymore. Oh well. I actually kinda like how quiet is it, though, 'cause looking at a forum like Smack Jeeves, there's, like, a million people posting there, and it's kinda just crazy.djracodex wrote:It's nice to see some consistent activity on these forums. They're rather quiet, and usually only a hand full of peeps post, so it's really great that this still plows on!
Well, I can't argue with that.djracodex wrote:Also, there's not enough dicks on this page. Nipple dicks or otherwise.
I do intend to spice up the site some, and I do have some stuff to flesh out the 'campaign world' some. So I'll try to get on that.Website: The website's not bad, with the navigation buttons based on fantasy weaponry being its best feature. It's also easy to get around the site, as there are buttons directly above, below, and next to the pages. However, the design's still fairly plain, and it could be embellished with more customization and fantasy elements.
There isn't much bonus content on the site other than a The Brothers Barbarian mini-comic and a very basic cast page. The About page mentions that the setting's a place called "the Dwelmlunds," but neither the site or the actual comic has any specific information on the Dwelmlunds yet.
Yes I do.Lastly, the update schedule's gone downhill since the comic launched, starting off with daily updates, then switching to once-a-week, and now being at about one page every three weeks. The creator needs to get into a habit of updating both more often and more consistently.
To be honest the point of my comic is simply that I wanted to have a webcomic and I wanted it to be a fantasy based comic. Do I have story in mind? Not beyond the 20 pages I've done plus 9 thumbnails for the next chapter. Have I thought of some cool hook to make my webcomic different from all the other fantasy web comic clones out there? I sure haven't. I do know that I want to do a fantasy comic because that's one of the few things in this world I love. I do want it to be interesting, I want there to be a reason for people to read my comic, but I'm not exactly sure how to get there.Writing: Below Page 6, the creator posted an explanation of the webcomic's title, writing, "I like the name Chainmail Bikini, but I worry that people might think my comic is yet another fantasy spoof. It's not. There might be some funny, even silly things on occasion, but I actually have a serious story line in mind."
Officially, this is a serious fantasy story, but, at the same time, the adventure's presented in just about as campy a manner as possible. Right from the start, the reader's submerged in a high-octane fantasy battle that seems pulled straight out of an MMORPG or Dungeons & Dragons game. Using the gamist archetypes, the adventuring group has a "Crowd Control" chick, a "Damage Output" guy, a "Healer" chick, and two "Protector" types. They get assigned a quest, fight a monster, and sneak around looking for clues and traps. All that's missing is a bag of Cool Ranch Doritos and a 12-pack of Mountain Dew, and you've got a classic night of nerd ecstasy on your hands. Any moment, the characters are gonna mention rolling dice, or experience points, or, well, chainmail bikinis, but... they don't. This is a serious story, remember?
Chainmail Bikini's main problem's that it's too campy to take seriously, but it's too serious to enjoy as camp. It's about as cheesy and unimaginative as possible, but where it seems like punchlines should be, we get plot instead. I have to wonder: What's the point of this comic supposed to be? There are so many RPG-based webcomics out there that I can't imagine starting one without having a really slick angle. Take a look at the approaches of some of the genre's standouts, for example. Order of the Stick and Looking For Group are ridiculous parodies, Goblins shows the monsters' point of view, and Darth & Droids is, well, Darth & Droids. Chainmail Bikini, on the other hand, is just another RPG webcomic. I mean, I get it; nerds like RPGs, and nerds like webcomics, so put them together and you've got an RPG webcomic. But this is, what, the eighth RPG webcomic I've reviewed? If a creator isn't doing something creative and unusual with it, then they're just wasting their time.
I definetely understand what you're saying. I haven't been super happy with my end product so far, I'm drawing cartoony (and not doing a great job of it) and trying to fit in a pseudo-serious story (because I don't think I could write a funny story). I've been fooling around with trying an even more cartoony style, but perhaps I should just stick to what I'm used to and try to make it more realistic (as far as fantasy comics go). I'm pretty new at computer coloring thing, so I need to reexamine how I'm going to color my strip.
I suck at english.As far as the characters go, their personalities are just the stereotypes of their various races. The half-orc's dumb, the dwarf chick's tough, the gnome chick's wacky, and the high elf's a smartypants. The group also has a human chick, the healer, and she has no personality other than being concerned about the characters' injuries. Most of the dialogue's directly related to the plot, so it might help if the focus was shifted to developing the characters more. This page also sticks out as having particularly unimportant dialogue, as Roslin's saying stuff that everyone there obviously already knows.
Yeah, I'm not very experienced at giving my characters interesting personalities. I did feel like the story got really slow in the middle, I need to work on my story layout.
Lastly, the lettering was fine when the comic was updating regularly, but it's gotten sloppier since the comic came back from its hiatus. Pages 17, 18, 19, and 20 all have mistakes, with Page 19 having four instances of a missing apostrophe.
Thanks! Another friend told me pretty much the same thing about Kor. I was actually planning on redesigning him because I thought his trenchcoat thing was a little trite. Maybe I'll just keep him the same.Art: Fortunately, the creator has a knack for drawing fantasy action scenes. The anatomy and poses are strong in this comic, especially for Kor, who also has the most well-designed outfit. Kor actually gets a lot of the best illustrations (1, 2, 3), so he ends up kind of seeming like the main character even though, narratively, he's just another member of the group.
I guess I suck at drawing females. My comic has been in part an attempt to learn to draw in a more cartoony style. I've been having a hard time keeping the characters looking the same from panel to panel. As I said before, perhaps I should try to draw more realistcally, I think I might be able to be more consistent that way.The female characters (which, surprisingly, are the majority in the group) aren't drawn as well. For one, Roslin and Velara have these weird, puffy lips that don't look realistic or attractive. Second, Roslin has huge watermelon boobs that go down to her waist, and she looks ridiculous even by the ridiculous standards for fantasy women. Third, Deedle starts off looking like a human with big eyes and ears, but, afterwards, half the time she looks like some weird animu character (1, 2, 3, 4). It seems like the creator's less comfortable drawing women than he is drawing the male characters, and it's definitely an area that he needs to work on.
Tone down the colors, work on backgrounds. I got it.The goofy parody comics I mentioned in the previous section all have bright coloring, and Chainmail Bikini's generally even brighter than they are. This is another reason why it's difficult to take the comic seriously. At one point, the coloring does start to get darker, but by Page 17, it's right back to everything being neon-bright. The backgrounds also aren't as elaborate as they should be in a serious fantasy comic, especially since the first 15 pages take place in the middle of an empty field surrounded by triangle mountains.
I'm sorry you had to read comic sans! I'll see about a different font for the next chapter.Lastly, the creator made the weird decision to use Comic Sans. I think this font looks terrible, and I personally won't normally read a webcomic that uses it. However, regardless of my personal preferences, it seems very out of place here because I mostly see it used in cartoony, gag-a-day comics. Picking a more appropriate font would be one of the easiest ways the creator could improve his webcomic.
Indeed I will! Thank you again for the review.Overall: Chainmail Bikini doesn't offer anything beyond average artwork and a cookie-cutter setup, making it probably the most unremarkable and uninteresting fantasy webcomic I've encountered. It appears to be the creator's first attempt at making a webcomic, though, and doing one for the first time's sort of like getting a bachelor's degree in webcomics. The creator should consider taking the comic in a drastically different direction, and he needs to continue to experiment and refine his abilities.
LibertyCabbage wrote:
2) I didn't mean to imply that those two areas sucked, just that they could use some improvement.
I'm glad you're getting some entertainment outta these reviews. I agree that the current state of webcomic reviews isn't so great, as you've basically got the John Solomon wannabes in one camp, and a buncha asspatting attention-whores in the other.Peripheral Descent wrote:This has been a very fun read. I've come across a few other webcomic reviewers, but I've found them to be unfairly harsh or just way too nice, or about the same handful of very popular online comics everyone else reviews. I like your critiques because you seem nicely balanced, and you have a pretty wide variety of comics, most of which I admit I've never heard before.
I'm up for more full-archive stuff. Writing these reviews is pretty routine by now, so I like doing different thing to have some variety. Do you have any "larger story" webcomics in mind that you'd like to see reviewed?Peripheral Descent wrote:If you have time, and motivation, it would be cool for you to do a larger review on a longer portion of a webcomic. You tend to do the most recent part of the archive, and you've explained your reasons for doing so (which I totally agree with), but it would be fun to see your opinions on a larger story.
I agree. The only people I've seen touch the likes of CG or SJ in general has been Bad Webcomics Wiki, and they're usually trawling for poor quality comics anyway so it's kind of like shooting fish in a barrel. I love reading reviews of webcomics, and it's hard to find critics who are willing to go beyond the overtrod comics like Penny Arcade, CAD, Dominic Deegan, et cetera.LibertyCabbage wrote: It's good to hear that you appreciate the reviews of more obscure comics. Pretty much nobody will review the stuff on free hosting sites, so it's kinda nice to have that niche covered. Lately I've been doing a mix of popular comics and less popular ones, and I think it's working out alright.
The sad thing's that Smack Jeeves has a great review system set up, and no one wants to use it. Whenever I look at the requests section, it's mostly zero-reply threads and people who say they'll review stuff and then flake out. It seems like I've been doing requests there only about once a month, and five out of the last seven review threads are mine. It really doesn't require superpowers to read a webcomic, write a few paragraphs about it, and click "Submit."VeryCuddlyCornpone wrote:I agree. The only people I've seen touch the likes of CG or SJ in general has been Bad Webcomics Wiki, and they're usually trawling for poor quality comics anyway so it's kind of like shooting fish in a barrel. I love reading reviews of webcomics, and it's hard to find critics who are willing to go beyond the overtrod comics like Penny Arcade, CAD, Dominic Deegan, et cetera.LibertyCabbage wrote: It's good to hear that you appreciate the reviews of more obscure comics. Pretty much nobody will review the stuff on free hosting sites, so it's kinda nice to have that niche covered. Lately I've been doing a mix of popular comics and less popular ones, and I think it's working out alright.
People have a hard time being "mean," though, and considering the general age of the SJ userbase, all critics are by default big meanies.LibertyCabbage wrote:The sad thing's that Smack Jeeves has a great review system set up, and no one wants to use it. Whenever I look at the requests section, it's mostly zero-reply threads and people who say they'll review stuff and then flake out. It seems like I've been doing requests there only about once a month, and five out of the last seven review threads are mine. It really doesn't require superpowers to read a webcomic, write a few paragraphs about it, and click "Submit."VeryCuddlyCornpone wrote:I agree. The only people I've seen touch the likes of CG or SJ in general has been Bad Webcomics Wiki, and they're usually trawling for poor quality comics anyway so it's kind of like shooting fish in a barrel. I love reading reviews of webcomics, and it's hard to find critics who are willing to go beyond the overtrod comics like Penny Arcade, CAD, Dominic Deegan, et cetera.LibertyCabbage wrote: It's good to hear that you appreciate the reviews of more obscure comics. Pretty much nobody will review the stuff on free hosting sites, so it's kinda nice to have that niche covered. Lately I've been doing a mix of popular comics and less popular ones, and I think it's working out alright.
And webcomics are in the ghetto of comics, which are already in the ghetto of art. Webcomic culture's screwed up now, but who's to say how it'll be five, ten years from now? Maybe if more smart people would lead by example, things could change.VeryCuddlyCornpone wrote: People have a hard time being "mean," though, and considering the general age of the SJ userbase, all critics are by default big meanies.
The key thing you're missing, though, is that webcomic reviews can't be primarily about helping creators or giving advice. As long as they are, people either aren't gonna do them or are gonna lose interest quickly, because it's just not worth it. The only way reviews work is if they're primarily about being fun to write. A review should be a communication from the reviewer to the webcomic-reading audience, not from the reviewer to the creator. If the creator gets something out of it, then great, and if not, then it's just not the reviewer's problem. I'm gonna iterate it in bold letters, 'cause it's just that essential: Reviewers aren't responsible for teaching people how to get better at making comics. The sooner people catch on to this, the sooner you're gonna see more and higher-quality reviews, because people are more passionate about stuff when they see it as a hobby rather than a chore.VeryCuddlyCornpone wrote:I can understand, honestly, because writing a good critique is definitely not easy. You have a knack for it and you've honed your skills. Remember that many people can't even look at their own comics critically, let alone at anyone else's. If you're the type who doesn't care enough to improve your own comic, what kind of advice would you be able to give to someone else who was actually trying?
It's the difference between going to a movie and saying "I didn't like it," versus "I didn't like it, and here are the reasons why..." Some poeple are just very poor at being able to think critically about the value of something, and even if they can think critically, they have a difficult time getting it into words they feel would be palatable to the creator in question, or at least interesting to a non-partisan audience.
Another thing is that many people don't feel they know enough to be able to write a helpful review/critique. It's kind of a corrollary to what I mentioned in my second paragraph, except with more self awareness- people think their own art/writing is weak, and feel that they therefore have no business giving anyone else advice. What's the saying, remove the plank in your eye before you try to remove the splinter in your neighbor's eye or something like that? (Except here it doesn't necessarily apply; helpful pointers are helpful pointers, even if their source might not seem qualified to say so)
That there is pretty much the key difference between a review and a critique -LibertyCabbage wrote:The key thing you're missing, though, is that webcomic reviews can't be primarily about helping creators or giving advice. As long as they are, people either aren't gonna do them or are gonna lose interest quickly, because it's just not worth it. The only way reviews work is if they're primarily about being fun to write. A review should be a communication from the reviewer to the webcomic-reading audience, not from the reviewer to the creator. If the creator gets something out of it, then great, and if not, then it's just not the reviewer's problem. I'm gonna iterate it in bold letters, 'cause it's just that essential: Reviewers aren't responsible for teaching people how to get better at making comics. The sooner people catch on to this, the sooner you're gonna see more and higher-quality reviews, because people are more passionate about stuff when they see it as a hobby rather than a chore.
Deviantart~tumblr
