Heroes Season 3

[Dr Legostar]

what about some of the abilities not taken to the absurd lengths of the series?

for instance, super-strength is a matter of degree.
would mr. universe strength be considered super?

what about accelerated healing, when not taken to the degree of heroes?
for instance, someone who healed at a rate 2-3 times that of most people?

just wondering if it's the degree of power which makes it impossible, or if, in some cases, a leser degree might be feasible.

well if it's possible and feasible it's not exactly super any more. There is a huge variation in how strong people can be, this is based on the condition of their muscles, but there is a limit that can be reached, and we all have different limits based on our innate physiology and how much effort we put into it. Healing also varies greatly from person to person, some people are faster healers, have better clotting factors, are not susceptible to certain types of disease, for example there are small segment of the population who are immune to HIV, they lack the machinery to let the virus attach itself to cells and reproduce, this is also true for other viruses, based on my own exposure to chicken pox, the fact that I had no antibodies against it (tested recently and vaccinated) and the fact that I've never gotten cold sores, it is possible (though i'm not gonna go out and test it) that i might be similarly immune to Herpes Simplex viruses.

To a varying degree (a much lesser degree) all of these sorts of powers exist on a non super level. We can all fly, it's called jumping. some people can read emotions, simply because they're perceptive. We all talk to machines, it's just that they don't listen to us, though some do if we hit them. There's plenty of people who's screams could set you back on your heals, and plenty of folks who can electrically shock you, but mostly by rubbing their feet on shaggy carpet.

[Rkolter]

Got to go with Legostar here - it's all on your definition of "Super".

If you mean, "Is there any way for us to go significantly beyond our physical capabilities such that no normal human could do so, within the laws of physics as we know them?" Then the answer is probably yes. But within the biological limits of humanity? There's a whole different question.

Take for example super-speed. There is a limit to how fast your muscles can contract and relax. But let's say you avoid that limit somehow, and can make your arms and legs pound at speeds of 40 miles an hour.

Now we have to work out how to get oxygen to those muscles. Bigger heart? Maybe. But now you have to get the oxygen into the muscle cells quicker, because there is a limit there too. And, your blood pressure would be closer to a tire-pressure at that point, so your entire circulatory system has to be re-tuned dramatically, with thick leathery walls all around - and that means you look grossly disfigured, since your whole body is basically a sponge of circulatory system - which is now 10 or 100 times thicker.

So how does the oxygen get into your blood stream? Lungs can't do it - your lungs can't pump that fast - they aren't really a billows per say. And they can't exchange gases that fast - try hyperventilating. Now, try doing it 100 times faster. It just doesn't work that way. You'd need something like a bird's lungs - which are far more efficient, but wickedly different from our own.

Back to that huge increase in size you've got thanks to your leather-walled veins. How does your body handle that? How do you move? You need more muscles, but not the fast kind of muscle, the strong kind. So now you're trading off speed for strength.

And your organs? How does your brain handle being far more diffuse now that your blood vessels are 100 times as thick? How does your brain get oxygen? How do your kidneys handle the pressure? Your Liver? These organs are sensitive to your blood pressure, and need to interact with the fluids in your body - you can't just ignore them, or when you start running you'll hear a couple popping noises and be the first human to experience rapid kidney explosion disease.

Not to mention, gods, if you got cut? You still only have so much blood, but now it's pressure is 100 times normal. One cut would rip your body apart.

How do you stop? Your body can't do much about that - you'll skid for however long it takes to stop, unless you redesign your feet and hands with impenetrable materials. So how do you feel your feet and hands then?

How do you get rid of the heat? You're going to be building up huge temperatures in your muscles, and the blood is how they cool, so that blood moves to the surface, your veins dialate, you sweat... wait, but your skin is thicker, your veins are too thick to dialate, and you no longer have the surface area necessary to cool the blood, which isn't at the skin long enough anyhow now that it's running 100 times too fast through your system.

... and so on.

So, sure, the laws of physics may allow a person to run super-fast - but the biology of the human body would not.

[Rkolter]

Super Strength, on the other hand, may be possible. There's a genetic disease that turns you into a damn-near superhuman looking person. Bulls can have it too. But, if your definition of "Super" is still "more than any normal human", then it doesn't count - because it's within the limits of human strength for you to be that strong. Just the far, far, far upper limit.

I always wondered what happened to people with that disease; I suspect they have health problems. Anyone want to look it up?

There are also documented cases of hysterical strength - in a true panic moment, someone doing something that you wouldn't consider humanly possible. But again, since a normal human did do it... is it Super? And these people usually end up damaging themselves.

Ditto people on drugs - My father had to have five other guys help hold down a relatively small man who had drugged himself up really well at Universal Studios. He's over 200 lbs, and the guy was picking my dad up, straight armed, while laying on the ground. Freaky, yes. But drug induced, and it did hurt the guy afterwards. Not really the definition of Super.

[Dracomax]

there are several "super" heroes in dc and marvel who are really just humans at the peak condition.
batman
green arrow
hawkeye
and some incarnations of captain america.

[Rkolter]

Yes, they're Superheros. But they do not have Super Powers.

[Dracomax]

Yes, they're Superheros. But they do not have Super Powers.

granted.

now, what about cyborgs/exoskeletons?
not really seen in heros, just something i've wondered.
could, say, iron man really fly at supersonic speeds without negative effects? what about taking large shells?

could someone in an exoskeleton, or with cybernetic parts, really run at "superhuman" speeds, or would the same(or similar) constraints hold?

[Rkolter]

Yes, they're Superheros. But they do not have Super Powers.

granted.

now, what about cyborgs/exoskeletons?
not really seen in heros, just something i've wondered.
could, say, iron man really fly at supersonic speeds without negative effects? what about taking large shells?

could someone in an exoskeleton, or with cybernetic parts, really run at "superhuman" speeds, or would the same(or similar) constraints hold?

If we assume that Tony Stark actually has all the technology to make a flying suit like that, the question is again, can the human body stand it?

Tony still would have to accelerate slowly - his body will still feel the effects of G forces when he turns, accelerates, or decelerates. This would include a large shell - assuming that the suit itself can withstand the explosion and damage, it would still be propelled backwards. Remember, cops who get shot in their bullet proof vests still get bruises, and sometimes broken ribs.

For running super-fast, I think it would depend on the design. If your legs are in the legs of the suit, then no. Your legs can't pump at 40 miles an hour. Your body doesn't work that way. If you're sitting in a chair within the suit, the suit's legs can do whatever the hell they want - it's just a vehicle at that point.

Exoskeletal super-strength is not unreasonable - a classic example that I really liked is from Aliens. That construction suit that Ripley uses to fight the Alien? Assuming you could make such a suit, I didn't see it do anything that her body couldn't handle as a rider and user.

[Dr Legostar]

Yes, they're Superheros. But they do not have Super Powers.

i swear i posted a response almost exactly like that, but it's nowhere to be found in the thread.

[Rkolter]

Yes, they're Superheros. But they do not have Super Powers.

i swear i posted a response almost exactly like that, but it's nowhere to be found in the thread.

I recall it too - I think it was in the last Heroes thread.

[Dr Legostar]

I recall it too - I think it was in the last Heroes thread.

no i mean just today, like a couple of minutes ago, I recall writing it.

[Rkolter]

I recall it too - I think it was in the last Heroes thread.

no i mean just today, like a couple of minutes ago, I recall writing it.

You are the second person to say that about a post of theirs in the last few days.

[Dr Legostar]

either A. there was some error because of quote pyramids and it just went unnoticed B. you're screwing with us and deleting things or C. the deletion fairies are having fun at our expense.

[Komiyan]

Bear in mind I haven't seen episode 3 yet, but my favourite part of watching Heroes is all the plotlines they drop and forget about. Anyone remember Peter's irish girlfriend who he left in the future? How about Molly, her two dads are gone! Micah? That one girl with the muscle memory? ANYONE mourning Nikki? No-one's asking where Adam went? wheeeeeeee

Also I hate how Hiro can fix everything that ever happens ever but never quite does, and Peter is stupidly unstoppable, yet goes on a wander with some crazy guys without say killing them with a flick of his wrist, or brain or whatever. Oh, and I hated how claire's mom did her fire thing when she came back on screen, just to remind us all what her power is. Or maybe she wanders around with a ball of fire all the damn time, who knows.

[Modernmelodrama]

Oh, and I hated how claire's mom did her fire thing when she came back on screen, just to remind us all what her power is. Or maybe she wanders around with a ball of fire all the damn time, who knows.

Me too.

I'm sure you can explain away a lot of the bizarre plot turns... but damn it, this is a fantasy show. I'm content to for once, just shut my brain off and enjoy.

[Dr Legostar]

Bear in mind I haven't seen episode 3 yet, but my favourite part of watching Heroes is all the plotlines they drop and forget about. Anyone remember Peter's irish girlfriend who he left in the future? How about Molly, her two dads are gone! Micah? That one girl with the muscle memory? ANYONE mourning Nikki? No-one's asking where Adam went? wheeeeeeee

Also I hate how Hiro can fix everything that ever happens ever but never quite does, and Peter is stupidly unstoppable, yet goes on a wander with some crazy guys without say killing them with a flick of his wrist, or brain or whatever. Oh, and I hated how claire's mom did her fire thing when she came back on screen, just to remind us all what her power is. Or maybe she wanders around with a ball of fire all the damn time, who knows.

i wonder about those things too. though i'm not sorry to see molly go, she was annoying and had bad teeth.

also, damn micah's really an orphan now.

[Komiyan]

I don't miss Molly, I'm just wondering if she's sat in an empty apartment wondering where Parkman and Mohinder got to.

Also why didn't Future Peter appear before Nathan's speech and go 'hey bro, don't give this speech or we all die' and Nathan would go 'ok'. Apparently it's far better to transport his past self into some other guy's body and shoot his own brother dead. Yup.

[Dr Legostar]

I don't miss Molly, I'm just wondering if she's sat in an empty apartment wondering where Parkman and Mohinder got to.

Also why didn't Future Peter appear before Nathan's speech and go 'hey bro, don't give this speech or we all die' and Nathan would go 'ok'. Apparently it's far better to transport his past self into some other guy's body and shoot his own brother dead. Yup.

i swear there was a brief mention of molly being handed over to... someone... and yeah peter really went about things in the worst possible way especially given that he can... oh i dunno, selectively stop time, be invisible, or any number of other things.

[CaptainClaude]

ph yeah, nathan is SOOOOO good at taking advice or listening to ANYONE who isnt Linderman

[Komiyan]

ph yeah, nathan is SOOOOO good at taking advice or listening to ANYONE who isnt Linderman

Ehh what, I'm not Gaius Baltar! *talks to person in his own head, pretends to be Jesus*

[[AlmightyPyro]]

I don't care what any one says, I like the future Sylar... Gabriel... I hope he turns out that way in the actual time line...