Finishing off your comic....

[Yeahduff]

Something's just not getting through here. I'm not saying that as Artist you are obligated to become friends with you readers and seek their opinions. I'm saying that if your art is out there and someone views it, you've just communicated with your audience. Art doesn't have a choice but to assume an audience.

Let me try it like this. You can say you have obligations to your audience or you can say that you have obligations to your art: There is no difference.

As for the "personification" argument, if we can allow ourselves the illusion that a group of lines can represent the image of a person while simultaneously knowing it's not a person, it's logical that we can allow ourselves the illusion that a series of images and words (or just words, or lights from a screen, or actors playing dress up reciting prechosen words) can describe people's lives while simultaneously knowing they don't really exist.

Dammit yeahduff, quit arguing on forums and update your damn comic. It's been over a month, you hack.

Kidding.*

*But only about the hack part, not about the dammit part.

Everytime I try to something breaks.

[Shishio]

Something's just not getting through here. I'm not saying that as Artist you are obligated to become friends with you readers and seek their opinions. I'm saying that if your art is out there and someone views it, you've just communicated with your audience.

That's true, but it doesn't mean I have an obligation to my audience, or that I am a hack for refusing to agree to hold any obligation to them.

If I buy a Playboy, am I obligated to masturbate to it?

The fact of the matter is it's my time, my effort, and my money that I invest into my comic. I do not owe anyone anything for simply reading it. Anyone who says otherwise really needs to consider pulling their head out of their ass.

[Yeahduff]

I bet that analogy made lots of sense in your head.

[Dr Legostar]

oh for crying out loud, it's not an obligation to your readers, merely showing your readers some kind of respect. You don't owe anyone anything, you don't have to do anything for anyone, ever, but it's a nice show of respect if you do. People have taken the time to read your work, whether you meant them to or not, but they did it, they liked it (or they wouldn't have come back) and it's a very simple thing to show them a tiny bit of respect for doing so. You're not under any obligation to them, you don't owe them for reading your comic, but it's nice if you respect them for it.

[Yeahduff]

The word "obligation" is relative. Like I said, you won't get arrested. Death shan't befall you. You don't have to do anything, really, but there are consequences and conclusions. You don't have to drive under the speed limit, but failing to will get you a ticket. You don't have to wash your hands after using the facilities, but failing to makes you a scumbag. You don't have to put effort into your comic and rap it up appropriately when the time comes, but...

But you put it well: Respect. I guess for me respect for the audience is obligatory.

[Rkolter]

Shishio - One-Liners isn't a storytelling comic. You're not telling an ongoing story. If you ended your comic abruptly your readers, including me (an avid fan) would be sad to see the comic go, but there wouldn't be any loose threads you failed to tie up.

I wonder if you'd feel the same way about ending your story if you were drawing a story with a definate storyline and an ending in mind? Would you still feel that you could just quit it at any time, or would you feel some sense of an obligation, to yourself at least, to finish it out?

As an aside, you mentioned merchandising and that you'd feel obligated to your readers if we paid you - you should offer up some.

[Shishio]

Shishio - One-Liners isn't a storytelling comic. You're not telling an ongoing story. If you ended your comic abruptly your readers, including me (an avid fan) would be sad to see the comic go, but there wouldn't be any loose threads you failed to tie up.

Not to mention the fact that since it's autobiographical, it can't end because

a) If it could, it would be when I die, but

b) I can't (As far as I know) write from the grave.

But that's not the point. I generally try to be as reasonable and neutral as possible, but as cold as I am, there are still a few things I take exception to. Such as the fucking selfish, arrogant mentality that believes webcomic creators should be slaves to their readers. I'm sure Yeahduff wouldn't go that far, but I just hate it when so called "fans," most of whom can't even be bothered to tell a creator they like their work, let alone support it in anyway, demand things from said creator.

If Yeahduff articulated his point more reasonably, like Legostar did, I probably wouldn't have argued with him so fiercely.

Also, it's spelled with a small "l".

I wonder if you'd feel the same way about ending your story if you were drawing a story with a definate storyline and an ending in mind? Would you still feel that you could just quit it at any time, or would you feel some sense of an obligation, to yourself at least, to finish it out?

Of course. I do have other stories I would *like* to tell, but I'm a writer. Therefore, in addition to time and money, telling these stories will require money. And if I can ever afford to, and be in favourable conditions to do so, I will tell those stories. However, if midway through telling one of those stories, I am unable to continue, due to a financial crisis, or whatever, then I will stop. Yes, I will feel some small regret at being unable to fully bring my vision to life, but I'm not one to cry over spilled milk. If this ever happens in the future, and it upsets people, then they can cover the expenses, or shut the fuck up.

As an aside, you mentioned merchandising and that you'd feel obligated to your readers if we paid you - you should offer up some.

I appreciate the fact that you would like some, and that you like my comic, I really do, but at this point, it would be a frustrating and pointless endeavour for me to engage in because

a) My readership is incredibly miniscule.

b) I would have to accept money through Paypal, which reveals the name (On your financial report) of everyone you send money to. I am much too private to ever be comfortable with this.

c) I don't have enough strips for a book, and I can't think of any good slogans for t-shirts, buttons, stickers, whatever.

d) It would be a huge pain in the ass.

[Yeahduff]

If I go any further I'll end up a broken record pissing everyone off (more), so instead I'll just say that all autobiographies end by necessity before the author dies. When the time comes, it shouldn't be hard to write in how you're moving on from your comic, especially since you apparently don't have loose ends to tie up.

And to relax: Fans are not obligated to contact you.

[Dr Legostar]

If I go any further I'll end up a broken record pissing everyone off (more), so instead I'll just say that all autobiographies end by necessity before the author dies. When the time comes, it shouldn't be hard to write in how you're moving on from your comic, especially since you apparently don't have loose ends to tie up.

And to relax: Fans are not obligated to contact you.

that's another one of those things.. they're not obligated to, but like it or not, some of them will.

[LibertyCabbage]

On reality:

If you suck at life, you might wanna try getting better at it instead of pretending that you suck because you want to.

On fans:

There's no obligation for fans, but still it's better to be a cool dude than a douchebag.

[Komiyan]

There's no obligation for fans, but still it's better to be a cool dude than a douchebag.

I like this, it sums it up perfectly for me.

[Vulpeslibertas]

...so instead I'll just say that all autobiographies end by necessity before the author dies.

Not so! The human head can live for up to two minutes after decapitation!

[Dr Legostar]

...so instead I'll just say that all autobiographies end by necessity before the author dies.

Not so! The human head can live for up to two minutes after decapitation!

ug.

[JTorch]

...so instead I'll just say that all autobiographies end by necessity before the author dies.

Not so! The human head can live for up to two minutes after decapitation!

ug.

Don't worry, you're lego. Your head is removable.

[Rkolter]

...so instead I'll just say that all autobiographies end by necessity before the author dies.

Not so! The human head can live for up to two minutes after decapitation!

Well, then the person hasn't DIED yet.

And besides, although the head may live on for another minute or two, it can't communicate and it probably lapses into unconciousness pretty quickly. We'd need to monitor your brainwaves prior to, during, and after decapitation to be sure.

[Dr Legostar]

...so instead I'll just say that all autobiographies end by necessity before the author dies.

Not so! The human head can live for up to two minutes after decapitation!

Well, then the person hasn't DIED yet.

And besides, although the head may live on for another minute or two, it can't communicate and it probably lapses into unconciousness pretty quickly. We'd need to monitor your brainwaves prior to, during, and after decapitation to be sure.

ryan, i need to get that forumite guillotine back that i loaned to you last week, we gots some speramentin' to do!


Also, it occured to me Shishio, when you finally stop your comic it would be rather appropriate to do so with a "happy ending" if you catch my meaning.

[RemusShepherd]

Shishio - One-Liners isn't a storytelling comic. You're not telling an ongoing story. If you ended your comic abruptly your readers, including me (an avid fan) would be sad to see the comic go, but there wouldn't be any loose threads you failed to tie up.

Not to mention the fact that since it's autobiographical, it can't end because

a) If it could, it would be when I die, but

b) I can't (As far as I know) write from the grave.

But you have an artist, and they could (and probably would) make up a concluding strip in the event of your death.

Hell, if you die in any particularly hilarious way, I'll volunteer to draw it for you.

As for the 'obligation' argument...I'd call it a courtesy. Not obligatory, but polite and a good idea.

[McDuffies]

Okay, from the top.

kels has it right. The difference between art and a craft is that art consists of more than what exists on the page. Otherwise, OBS, you might as well go design furniture or something like that, because if you don't put emotional involvement into what you do, then readers won't either. Then your work will mean nothing to readers, even less to you, and it'll all be just a waste of time and trees cut down to make your paper.

But that's the intention; there isn't suppose to be an emotional attachment at all. If the reader can't see my chracters as just puppets used to illustrate something, then they are becoming far too involved with the comic and devloping an unhealthy attachment to something that that doesn't exist.

The strip is just an image file. The image is just a jumble of lines used to illustrate a character, a setting, and dialouge. The character is just a puppet used to repersent something tangible, a human being in this case since the reader already knows what they look like.

But, the character only bears vauge human characteristics; they are just illustrative puppets afterall. Treating them as something more is just reaching too deep into something that just isn't there.

You talked about comics as easy fun served with lemonade and cookies or something like that. It's that actual emotional involvement and ability to personify more than what is drawn on the page, that makes comics more than just easy fun-milk-and-cookies. I guess if someone's comic is just a worthless one-time-read, it's of that author who doesn't put any emotional involvement into it, the one who doesn't create anything more than just just drawings on the paper.

Again, the intention is (basically) 'a worthless one-time read'. Remember, I'm not trying to push people into reading it, nor giving them a reason to even give two thoughts about it after they are done reading it. I'm not feeling anything from doing it, so why should anyone else? If a reader does feel an attachment for any aspect of the comic, good for them. I don't care that they do feel that way, I'd say they should re-evaluate the comic and not become attached to something so...flimsy, but that's of their choosing.

If a reader can seperate what is just an image from what is an emotional attachment to something that doesn't exist, good for them. They've won.

You say you put your comic on net because you can, because it's a free host, etc. By same logic applied you can apply yourself to all comic directories - because they're there, because they're free, etc. And hey, you could also link it in your sig - it's there, it's free, maybe noone will notice it, even, because there's one beneath every post. Hey, you could end up the worst webcomic whole, just following the line of "because it's there".

By placing a comic on internet, you are inviting people to read it, indirectly. Whatever you do in public is directed to someone, done with intention, a little cry for more or less attention - not neccesarily attention to you, but to your comic certainly. Furthermore, your acting on this forum is begging for even more attention. You're aware that many people are wondering what's your comic like now, and I am certain that you're enjoying this mystification.
I said it before and I'll say it again, you can draw comics and put them into closet or keep them in your diary, but whenever you hang them on wall, pring them or post them on internet, you're asking people for those few seconds of attention that takes them to read it.

Besides, this is a very unfair play. By hiding your comic, you're escaping people's judgement. Whenever any of us makes a statement about making comics, any other person can jump to his comic, and see his comic-making principles at work, see if those principles result in actual good comics. You, on the other hand, don't give us that chance.
So ok, give the link, show guts. Show us those controversial ideas at work. Let us see if this detachment, can actually have any good results. If a comic can be good if a "reader donesn't feel anything". I bet it can't.

If I buy a Playboy, am I obligated to masturbate to it?

Uh, what?
That's kind of like second time I hear you making a parallel that makes no sence. If this is gonna be a trend, someone better start a wiki page about it.

If Yeahduff articulated his point more reasonably, like Legostar did, I probably wouldn't have argued with him so fiercely.

I think that he articulated it well enough, everyone else seemed to catch his drift. Perhaps you're just projecting your own problems that you have with some fans on other people's words.

[Yeahduff]

If Yeahduff articulated his point more reasonably, like Legostar did, I probably wouldn't have argued with him so fiercely.

I think that he articulated it well enough, everyone else seemed to catch his drift. Perhaps you're just projecting your own problems that you have with some fans on other people's words.

I think he meant a word other than "articulated." Pretty sure he was just saying I was speaking in extreme terms, which most people seem to agree with. I don't think I brought the word "obligation" to the discussion, but I could be wrong. In either case, I do doubt my failure to be "reasonable" is what sparked his passions.

[Dr Legostar]

If Yeahduff articulated his point more reasonably, like Legostar did, I probably wouldn't have argued with him so fiercely.

I think that he articulated it well enough, everyone else seemed to catch his drift. Perhaps you're just projecting your own problems that you have with some fans on other people's words.

I think he meant a word other than "articulated." Pretty sure he was just saying I was speaking in extreme terms, which most people seem to agree with. I don't think I brought the word "obligation" to the discussion, but I could be wrong. In either case, I do doubt my failure to be "reasonable" is what sparked his passions.

i know it's sparking mine.