Honestly, why do you think people become geeks. (Please don't just say 'because we're fabulous,' we all know that already. )
There are things one must able to do to be what I shall call for purposes of this conversation 'normal' - which herein means 'not geeky' and shall have neither a positive nor negative connotation. I don't like the idea that non-geeks are ordinary (we're bizarre, green, three-headed freaks?) or mundane (they're about as human as Flavorless Glatinous Cubes?).
Examples: X is a mathematical genius. He is so far beyond people his own age in intellectual capacity that he goes to school in a building with kids far from his own age. Many of the kids he goes to school with think he's bizarre, many kids his age think he's bizarre. Is X a geek because he loves SF/F and stuff or because X is only accepted/feels comfortable around geeks? Y is a cute, ordinary girl who is a cheerleader and very graceful, hot and athletic. She is going out with the star quarterback of her school's varsity football team. She happens to like D&D and reads lots of dorky webcomics. Because Y is a 'geek by choice' and could easily avoid interacting with geekiness entirely, is she a 'better' geek than X, who may only be interested because he has no other social outlet? Or is X a more 'hard-core' geek, while Y doesn't really count as a geek because she hangs out with so many normal people?
By the way, do not insult X, Y, or any other letters of the alphabet that may enter this conversation. I know X and Y personally, and they are both good people and friends of mine. It just feels weird to talk about people you know with random strangers on open message boards.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. -unknown
You broke the universe - my DM this one time
I would say you are a geek if you choose to associate yourself as such. There are some geeks who are 'closet geeks' - like my friend Deepak who is CONSTANTLY playing video games and raving about how awesome they are, and then denies that he's a video game geek. Basically I don't think "geek" is some elitist group or really a group at all...if someone sees themself as a geek then they are. It's not like being a geek stops you from being something else, too. For example, when I was younger I was a model, and a ballerina. I was this very prim, and proper little girl, who dressed up very nicely all the time and wore makeup...and devoured scifi books and video games like they were candy. I don't really think I know anyone who is a geek to the exclusion of all else. So once you have the premise that anyone who thinks they are a geek, is one, then it comes down to which one is "geekier than thou", and frankly I think that whole conversation is a load of crap. Geek is Geek is Geek, there's no "i'm more of a geek than you" or "i'm less of a geek than you" unless you're talking about friendly joking between gamer buddies or something.
Ok, at work once, I was talking to some of my colleagues and laughinly said 'I'm such a geek' when talking about my hobies. They acted all shocked and sai 'DOn't say that! You're not!' so I gently mentioned that I roleplayed, read Sci-fi and fantasy books, played computer games, and partook in any number of geeky activities.
The reason they thought I couldn't be a Geek is as well as that, I have a social life, I go clubbing, I'm female, I'm (god, so vain-sounding here, but this is what they said) I'm attractive, and I'm 'Goffik'.
Seems that they thought you couldn't be allof these things together.
Ok, no idea what point this had in all of this, but according to my colleagues Geeks are boring, socially inept, males with a body odour issue and no social life.
I was glad to put them right
And last night when we were running overtime the securit guard popped his head in and said 'you'll have to wrap it up gentlemen'. I mean, fine, 95% of the room was male but the three women in the room all spontaneously checked that they hadn't turned male in ten seconds.
I'm not sure what makes you a Geek, but I think, ultimately, it's down to a certain nature as a fantasist. You need to be someone who can slip into other personas, other worlds, happily, whether thats from roleplaying to getting absorbed in a computer game.
Narf the Mouse wrote:Since 'Geek' has been largely defined by non-geeks labelling people, it is difficult to define.
Rather like all social labels, it is vague, undefined and of not much use.
The current trend however is that anyone who is passionate about something is a Geek. Scrapbookers who spend hours every day working and slaving over their hobby are "geeking out" just as hard as a cosplaying anime' LARPer who's running a D&D game at a Star Trek con with his fellow Magic the Gathering buddies as a break between bouts of HALO2. (It's Combat Evolved!)
My expert opinion (and it IS expert by the way) is that one can only determine how hardcore they are for themselves. We geeks have turned the tables on the rest of society, pointing out that a jock who has memorized the stats of his favorite sports team is a sports geek, that the girl who owns over 500 Harlequin romance and other bodice-ripper novels is geeking out in her own way. In doing so, we've taken what was a negative word and have turned it into a source of pride in our specialized intrest or knowledge.
Does is really matter who's the bigger or more "hardcore" geek? Not really. That's what makes geekdom so cool. We may not understand each others geekiness, but we can usually find parallels between our varied hobbies and thereby find common ground.
What I can't understand is why some geeks feel the need to say that their favorite slice of geekdom is superiour. That being said, City of Heroes is better than World of Warcraft.
A Zen Koan:
A Master said unto his Student,
"I Own you, Bitch. Know this."
And the Student was Owned,
And Knew it.
Narf the Mouse wrote:No arguement, as long as you're talking about character creation. Most fun part of CoH. All downhill after that.
You're right. WOW is great unless you want to accomplish anything. All you get to accomplish in WOW is running. Endlessly. For hours.
CoH=Travel Power at 14th level!! Also there's the Punching Evil, Hovering Like and Angry God, Cool Power effects, Awesome Role-Playing Potential.
Downhill like a Fox!
A Zen Koan:
A Master said unto his Student,
"I Own you, Bitch. Know this."
And the Student was Owned,
And Knew it.
'Go here. Knock out ten bad guys.'
'Go there. Knock out ten bad guys.'
'Go in this cave/warehouse/sewer and knock out all the bad guys.'
'Ok, now grind for an hour and get a single bubble.'
Yep. Role-playing potential. How did I ever miss it?
Oh yeah, cannot forget the amazing choice of two whole nine-point lists to 'choose' from.
Personally, I don't get any real enjoyment from ANY of the MMOs I've seen or tried. I've heard that there are RP servers where actual roleplaying takes place, but I've yet to witness any examples. Give me a game with a STORY any day. I'd rather get a game that I can finish and then buy another game, than pay month after month for a pointless level-grinding experience that equates to playing solitare.
Narf the Mouse wrote:'Go here. Knock out ten bad guys.'
'Go there. Knock out ten bad guys.'
'Go in this cave/warehouse/sewer and knock out all the bad guys.'
'Ok, now grind for an hour and get a single bubble.'
Yep. Role-playing potential. How did I ever miss it?
Oh yeah, cannot forget the amazing choice of two whole nine-point lists to 'choose' from.
As apposed to WOW.
Run for 2 hours. Chop up/burn up 10 goblins.
Run for three hours. Chop up 5 rats and 7 goblins.
Run for 7 hours to talk to an NPC for 5 seconds.
Run for 3 hours. Chop up some more stuff.
Repeat ad infinitum ad nauseum.
Level.
*Phew* Thanks for setting me straight.
Seriously though. I've heard that there's RPing in WOW. I can assure you that there is in CoH.
Every MMO that has a level system has a grind that you have to put up with. WOW is no different. CoH has story arcs you get from NPCs you talk to. You can follow that arc to other story arcs that give you a large picture of the world and how it all interacts. I've never played WOW but I'd be shocked if it didn't have the same thing.
They both have the same potential for role playing. I just think it's cooler to roleplay a superhero than a wizard.
Just so everyone else knows, soloing in CoH or CoV can get you a bubble roughly every three "door" missions. Every 10 bubbles (I think) gets you a new level. Every even level you get a new superpower, and you can have up to 5 different power pools (I think). Every odd level you gain enhancement slots for your superpowers, fine tuning them to your taste.
From everything I've heard, the games are virtually the same, it's just that CoH has less gaps in the action due to shorter travel times.
A Zen Koan:
A Master said unto his Student,
"I Own you, Bitch. Know this."
And the Student was Owned,
And Knew it.
xaq wrote:Give me a game with a STORY any day. I'd rather get a game that I can finish and then buy another game, than pay month after month for a pointless level-grinding experience that equates to playing solitare.
MMO's like WOW and CoH are vastly different from the old school ones like EverQuest.
There is a story there, and as for roleplaying, it largely depends on the group you join with. It's no different from playing a tabletop game. You can play a with a Monty Haul group that doesn't roleplay at all or a troupe that doesn't pick up their dice once in a three hour session because they don't do anything but roleplay. It just depends on the group.
Also, I have to bust you. What was the last video game you bought?
A Zen Koan:
A Master said unto his Student,
"I Own you, Bitch. Know this."
And the Student was Owned,
And Knew it.
travel time is in fact the biggest issue i have with wow. on the other hand...epic flying mounts are the EFFING shit, yo. i do find it sort of stupid that you have to wait until you are max. level before you can get the thing that lets you travel ridiculously stupidly incredibly fast...but once you get it, oh baby it's good.
also, from what i have been told, a difference between wow and coh/cov is that most everything is instanced in coh, which accounts for a lot of the travel time differences. from a game engine mechanic it should be easier to move someone from one instance to the next. also, although there is a lot of stuff to do while levelling and although they are working on a lot more solo and small group content once you've reached 70, i think it is no big surprise to anyone that wow's major focus at level cap is dungeon raiding, which for most guilds, even RP guilds on RP servers, does not have a huge RP aspect. i mean sure, you may sit around for half an hour talking about why you need to go to slay onyxia in her lair, and how she destroyed 15 villages and however many miles of farmland, and how the burden on the land must be stopped and the fiendish political plot exposed, etc etc etc. but once you get in there and you're actually fighting her, you're probably not politely typing "alas! my wounds are grievous! priests, tend to me if you can!!" in to raid chat. you're gonna be typing "OMFG I NEED HEELZ!!!". also, unless your guild only ever kills any dungeon boss once, you're going to be breaking RP every time you go kill something because technically you've killed it already.
wow...you'd think i'd DEFEND my favorite game, not bash it. but at least i'm being honest. i will say that there are some absolutely incredible storylines going on in wow, if you take the time to slow down and read what the npc's are saying, or the random books you find lying around, or what have you. i have to say that the most amazing moment i've ever had playing wow was at one point, a certain quest line i was following got to the point where there was this little miniature ghostly animation going on, and you got to watch this cataclysmic event that had happened centuries ago, and it all revolved around this heartbreaking tale of a man who condemned his son to death in order to save the rest of their people, and discovered - too late - that there was no way for the plan to work. granted, a good number of the quests are - go kill 8 wolves, or go bring me 2 billion murloc heads, or "fetch me that book sitting on that shelf over there" - but there are lots of quests that have some really amazing backstory and storyline to them, if you actually stop to read all the quest dialogue and materials associated with it.
it also helps if you've played the warcraft RTS campaigns - particularly warcraft 3. god DAMN arthas was a bastard...
as far as finding groups of people to roleplay with...
there ARE tons of really good quality roleplaying guilds out there. and they're not that difficult to find, or to get in to. a few of them are fairly elitist but most continue to recruit members. typically what you do is search for roleplaying guilds (there's all sorts of search engines that let you search for wow guild websites) on a given server - find one that looks cool - and make a post on the forums applying to the guild. they will generally contact you in-game and ask you to attend some of their live RP events to make sure you're not some douchebag who's gonna spam "LOLZ YOU SAID THOU" or what have you. on blackwater raiders, there were multiple times when i just randomly stumbled across some guild or group doing some sort of roleplaying event, and i would tag along to see what they were like. there are some groups that are set up like a military and very orderly, others that are more focused on holy/religious aspects, others for your average, day-to-day adventurer, and others with a mix of all of these. there are people who create thieves' guilds, warlock councils, and so on. there's a lot of really good quality roleplaying going on and it's NOT just restricted to an elite few people on the server. you just have to know where to look for it.
one thing i do wish is that there could be more in-game effects of roleplaying events. like, it would be really neat if there were a toll booth on the border of one zone and the other, surrounded by elite guards. if you could kill the guards and keep them away, then you and your friends could take over the toll booth and then players would have to pay a toll to you rather than the npc's...and if they refused to pay, they would be flagged for free for all pvp mode so you could kill them. or maybe it would force them to pay the toll and if they didn't they'd have to find another way around. that's just an example, though. there's so much more that could be done with the game. mind you, the fact that i've been playing for a couple years is pretty obvious proof that i'm not kicking and screaming in complaint. what's there is enough to keep me having fun and interested. i just figured i'd throw in my two cents regarding the roleplaying aspect: there's lots available, but it is by no means exhaustive. there's also a lot more that *could* be done.
Thunderhowl wrote:MMO's like WOW and CoH are vastly different from the old school ones like EverQuest.
There is a story there, and as for roleplaying, it largely depends on the group you join with. It's no different from playing a tabletop game. You can play a with a Monty Haul group that doesn't roleplay at all or a troupe that doesn't pick up their dice once in a three hour session because they don't do anything but roleplay. It just depends on the group.
Also, I have to bust you. What was the last video game you bought?
Amusingly, it was Broken Sword 4, the Angel of Death.
I got a new system about 4 months ago... it's my brother's old motherboard. I can run WOW and other MMOs (and have tried a free month subscription that KimQ sent me), so that's not the issue.
Broken Sword 4 just came out last year. It's a 3-D graphics interactive adventure style of game... where you have to solve puzzles and talk to various characters to advance the storyline, that kind of thing. Like the old Gabriel Knight games (which are some of my all-time favourite games).
What really bothers me about CoH is the lack of choice in powers. Sure, there's a large number of archetypes, but for power selection - Two pre-set nine-point lists and a few extras.
Although I might enjoy it more if I did find a RP guild. One of the more enjoyable characters I made in CoH was a D&D refugee - Spent from level 1-6 getting parties together to 'Raid the dungeon (Sewers)'.
I can't remember who said it but I remember someone saying "Everyone is a geek in some way." Whether it's cars, gaming, televison trivia, politics etc.
It's just that some forms of geekery aren't seen as such because they're the kind of things that "normal" people do.
My mates are mostly geeks but we hang out with reasonably normal - really excuse me for using that term - people as well and nobody seems to point it out or notice even when one of my mates wears pretty much nothing but video game themed t-shirts.
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"
Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night." - Charlie Brown
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