Criticism needed for race design (hard sci-fi fans wanted)

[JohnLynch]

I need opinions on what people think about this race design. I'd welcome opinions by anyone and everyone, but I added the sci-fi fans wanted to try to get their attention as well

I'm after criticism (both good and bad accepted here) on the artwork and the race. Do you think this race is believable? What would you change about the race to make it better? While I might not change it (as it might contradict the history I've created for the world), I'd still like to hear it

Here's a picture of a generic member of the race:


Some info on the race:
* Race didn't evolve on Earth (but did evolve on an Earth-like planet), so because of the similar solutions to similar problems aspect of evolution, you get similar species (besides which, I can't think of a truly alien race, I have to get inspiration from Earth ).
* This race is the warrior caste. So I made them be truly powerful when it comes to combat with primitive weapons. They naturally gained the upper hand because of their natural strength, their natural stamina, their claws, their opposable thumb (allowing them to wield clubs), their powerful tail which can be used as a club, their thick skin making good armor, their large nostrils giving them a good sense of smell, their ears can swivel allowing them to tell where sounds are coming from easily and their big horns sticking out of their head. I built every natural weapon into this beast that I could. I wanted them to clearly be the most powerful creatures in their primitive world. The natural leaders for their primitive society.
* Women of this race are naturally more powerful then men physically. I'm so sick of people always acting like this is such an unbelievable thing when it came to humans, so I created a race where their arguments wouldn't be valid.
* Yes, those are breasts on her chest. No, I didn't draw a nipple, I didn't want to go into THAT much detail for this test drawing, although I do realise that if I do show women of this race naked, I will have to draw nipples (I'm to-ing and fro-ing on whether or not the society should have a nudity tabboo. The reasons for the nudity tabboo is so I don't have to draw nipples and all that sort of thing. Reasons against it is their society will be made up of numerous species, the idea of the leaders wanting to cover up races that don't resemble them at all, and don't have any of the parts in the right places seems silly. So if some races can go around nude, why not all?). They beasts are small because in humans, muscley women have small breasts. I figured if I'm going to give her human-like breasts, that should transfer over as well.
* Her feet are much like a rhino's (okay, I admit it. The entire creature is based on a rhino, in case you hadn't noticed that yet If you didn't realise it was based on a rhino, great. I didn't want to grab a rhino and give it hands and make it a biped. But as I looked for creatures that would make natural fighters, rhino's stood out). I figured a rhino's feet are best for keeping a rhino standing (although she isn't anywhere near as heavy as a rhino, I don't think any human-sized biped could be).

With this creature, I wanted to create a unique race. I didn't want to grab a fantasy race (like an elf) and give it a different name (say, a Vulcan) and claim it to be an original species. I carefully thought out the personality of the creature, some of the physical aspects I wanted it to have (such as the tail and horns) and looked for parts of animals that would be able to have those physical aspects and personality.

Any and all feedback will be greatly appreciated.

[YarpsDat]

hmmm... sounds somewhat like the Thraddash from StarControl universe...

The thing with warriors caste walking around naked bothers me somewhat.
I'm not sure what's the technology level of the planet in question.
If it was ancient times, like stone/bronze age, then fine, their natural tough skin would provide some defence.
Beyond that, I think any remotely reasonable warrior race would like to wear some armors, unless the armor was restricting mobility too much, or if the incoveniences (eg. too heavy, too hot inside, making noises), were too big to account for increase in defence.
If it is space travel level, as the talk of planets and different species makes me think. Then I'd say they should wear cybernetically enchanced titanium plate armors, with enviromental control (air conditioning), and build in hidden weapons. Or at least something armor-like, for show.

Of course, nudity wouldn't have to be a taboo. And their favourite past time could be striping naked and fighting barehanded.


The horns in way of sight look somewhat annoying.

You might want to design a skeleton for that species, design it to work with thumbs, face-horns and the tail-mace. That will give these features more realistic form and function.

Also, I'm not so sure about rhino feet. Look rather unstable to me, on the other hand, bipeds are usually that, and need to actively move to keep ballance, so maybe it's not a problem.


Yeah. Designing an alien species is hard. We keep getting caught in earthly/humanly patterns.
I wish you luck in overcoming that.

You may want to play StarControl2 game, or browse this website about it. The game has a set of various aliens, that are believeable, memorable and overall cool.

[Darzoni]

The only problem I can see is... what sort of species did they come from before attaining sentience? Typically the adaptations you list, and the appearance given, would indicate defensive adaptations by herbivores to fend off predators (tough skin, horns, club-tail). While the herd instinct could develop and constitute sentience, I don't see them being overly aggressive except when defending the herd. Perhaps they see themselves more as guardians of their society's safety than the warriors of it, having extended their concept of what the herd is to the society they belong to? In other words, cognitive/social development is somewhat bound by diet and physiological necessities.

IMHO, drawing inspiration for aliens from Earth species is fair game, since there are plenty of 'alien' life forms right here on Earth.

[Black Sparrow]

Darzoni has a good point...

Anyway, I'm kind of disappointed that, in a species that is designed like a rhino or similarly hoofed mammal, you felt the need to add two very humanesque breasts. If the skin is, indeed, as thick as you say, a little mammary fat wouldn't make bulges. At all. (Not to mention that the earth counterparts tend to have nipples a little further down.) i'd suggest, if you want breasts, make a softer underbelly. Yeah, it'd be a weakness, so that's up to you.

If, as Darzoni said, they descended from herbavores, the eyes should be on the side of the head. Frontal vision and depth perception are generally carnivorous traits.

Which is another thing that bugs me... this is a "super race." The club tail seems awkward... You'd think it'd drag on the ground when she walked. And, as a biped, she wouldn't get much force behind the club anyway, since she has no forepaws for leverage.

They're bipeds, so I'm not sure how well the rhino feet would work. The tail would help keep them from tipping forward (as long as the tail always dragged on the ground a little), but it would probably be pretty hard to move forward without some sort of "heel-to-toe" mechanism.

Finally, I'd like to say... good for you! I've created races before, but all of them were made using the logic that they actually descended from the human race. It's great to see fairly original races that don't copy the "aliens are humans with face putty and cyborg parts" mold.

[RemusShepherd]

* Yes, those are breasts on her chest. No, I didn't draw a nipple, I didn't want to go into THAT much detail for this test drawing, although I do realise that if I do show women of this race naked, I will have to draw nipples (I'm to-ing and fro-ing on whether or not the society should have a nudity tabboo. The reasons for the nudity tabboo is so I don't have to draw nipples and all that sort of thing.

Rhino breasts are floppy and funnel-shaped, which you would expect for something that has to be the softest skin on an otherwise armored animal. More like underfilled cow teats than human mammaries.

I doubt you want to draw that, so consider another type of mammary gland, like maybe the exposed glands of some marsupials -- just large pores in the skin. It would be no more than a dot on a muscular chest in your drawing. Look up 'platypus milk glands' for details.

I can't see this race, evolving on its own, having much of a nudity taboo. Their skin is all the protection they need, so there's no reason to wear clothing. The only reason I can think of is if there is a mating display (like a baboon's red butt) that would interfere with civilized activities if shown in public. If it evolved with other civilized races that had nudity taboos of their own, then they might adopt one. But then you get the problem of what they could wear. Normal fabric is going to get shredded in the joints of a rhino-skinned creature. Maybe they'd wear shells strapped on with tough leather?

* Her feet are much like a rhino's (okay, I admit it. The entire creature is based on a rhino, in case you hadn't noticed that yet If you didn't realise it was based on a rhino, great. I didn't want to grab a rhino and give it hands and make it a biped. But as I looked for creatures that would make natural fighters, rhino's stood out). I figured a rhino's feet are best for keeping a rhino standing (although she isn't anywhere near as heavy as a rhino, I don't think any human-sized biped could be).

Nothing wrong with a biped having rhino-like feet. If I recall, the cave troll in the Lord of the Rings movie had feet like that. However, two notes. One, rhino feet flare out slightly, to distribute weight over a wider area and reduce wear on the footpad. A biped's feet would need to flare out even more to reduce foot pressure more, and might look more like inverted mushrooms than the columns in your drawing. You could dismiss this by saying their skin and joints are so tough they can stand up to any amount of wear.

The second note for the feet is that this thing is not a hunter. As Darzoni mentioned, this is a herbivore with serious defenses. Note that pachyderms like rhinos and elephants cannot jump, and have limited mobility in their feet, so your creature is not going to be leaping around and performing fancy footwork in combat. It's going to stand there, absorb hits, and knock anything that comes near it into next week. I guess what I'm saying is, don't make them ninjas.

Cool idea, though.

[Blackaby]

For some reason I feel it should be crouching. There's some awkwardness to its posture & construction that I just can't put my finger on, but I think it's something to do with the length of the legs, the straight spine and the long clubbed tail - I just see it falling over a lot every time it attempts to swing. The only upright animal with a heavy tail I can think of is the kangaroo, and you can see how they have compensated for it. They also don't do much swinging about with it. The horns aren't really a practical weapon for a biped, I think they'd be more of a hindrance than anything.

In fact looking at it more and more, I think this race would be very prone to dropping on all fours when it fought & I'm not sure if this was what you were going for.

Hm. I may sketch it when I go home, it's really made me think. I love the concept and also, being a mad Darwin fan, I love the question too

[JohnLynch]

The thing with warriors caste walking around naked bothers me somewhat.

They certainly wouldn't go around being naked when in combat. But there are times when they're off-duty, retired, sleeping, bathing, rise up in ranks to a more administrative role. No, I'm not planning on having them fight in the nude (at least, not except in their most primitive state of civilization).

I'm not sure what's the technology level of the planet in question.

I've got a rough outline from a few proto-rhino forms, up until space faring.

The horns in way of sight look somewhat annoying.

I agree. I'd like to have them be horned, I just can't think of a good place to give them horns.

The horns aren't really a practical weapon for a biped, I think they'd be more of a hindrance than anything.

Unfortunately your probably right.

You might want to design a skeleton for that species, design it to work with thumbs, face-horns and the tail-mace. That will give these features more realistic form and function.

That might be a good idea. Although I don't know that much about biology, so I don't know if it would be that much better, but it can't hurt to try.

You may want to play StarControl2 game, or browse this website about it. The game has a set of various aliens, that are believeable, memorable and overall cool.

Interesting site, I've had a quick look, I'll give it a bit more of a look at another time. Thanks

Typically the adaptations you list, and the appearance given, would indicate defensive adaptations by herbivores to fend off predators (tough skin, horns, club-tail). While the herd instinct could develop and constitute sentience, I don't see them being overly aggressive except when defending the herd.

I see your point (and I've heard it in plenty of times), but I've never seen proof either way (given that humans are our only example of our level of intelligence, we don't have much to draw from).

I believe that intelligence (once it reaches a particular level), override any instinctual tendencies in a species.

One of our closest relatives (and closest to our level and type of intelligence) are gorillas, and even between "subspecies" of gorrillas, behaviour can be quite different, with one group aggressive towards non-tribe members, and another different when meeting another tribe whose leader is a relation. Another close realtive is the orangutan who has the exact same diet as Gorrillas, but are extremely solitary. Bonobo's have a similar diet to Gorillas and Orangutans, but have an egalitarian society. Chimpanzee's on the other hand (which are the closest relations for Bonobo's and humans), have a structure much more like Gorilla's and are in fact more omnivorous then any other living hominid (minus humans.

The only conclusion I can base on that is, once intelligence comes into play at a high enough level whether a creature is a herbivore, omnivore, carnivor it really doesn't matter. In all the above examples, they're all omnivores, but most of them have a herbivore diet, but even if you class them as omnivores, their societies are quite different. And their intelligence level isn't at the human level. Their intelligence is lower, so their natural instincts can come into play more.

Sorry, pet peeve of mine having all alien carnivores be aggressive, while herbivores are always placid. Humans have a wide range of demeanours (which I don't think is because of our diet, but instead our intelligence), I figure why can't non-omnivores of equal intelligence as well.

Anyway, I'm kind of disappointed that, in a species that is designed like a rhino or similarly hoofed mammal, you felt the need to add two very humanesque breasts.

I was really, really unsure about that. I did think of having a set up more like a dog, but I thought only creatures that give birth in litters have such a set up. So I went for the humanesque breasts, not very happy with it. I've attached an alternate breast style for the creature down below.

the eyes should be on the side of the head. Frontal vision and depth perception are generally carnivorous traits.

Thanks, I didn't realise that. See below for an updated appearance.

Which is another thing that bugs me... this is a "super race."

Not really. The tail (even if used as a club) would be useless against any armor (especially metal), as would the claws. I'm not too sure about horns, but I think they wouldn't be the most useful thing either. Also something that I can't depict in the picture (I don't know how) is their hands don't have 3 joints (like humans), they have two. This is going to make it difficult for them to wield fine-precision items, and it's always going to require extra care in creating tools for them.

The club tail seems awkward... You'd think it'd drag on the ground when she walked. And, as a biped, she wouldn't get much force behind the club anyway, since she has no forepaws for leverage.

Thankyou. I was a bit unsure about that. I thought perhaps it would drag on the floor, but I thought that might make walking too difficult (it didn't occur to me that this would make it easier to keep balanced). I've updated my info so the tail isn't used in combat (I couldn't work out how to get much force behind it).

I doubt you want to draw that, so consider another type of mammary gland, like maybe the exposed glands of some marsupials -- just large pores in the skin. It would be no more than a dot on a muscular chest in your drawing. Look up 'platypus milk glands' for details.

Err.. I've been unable to find any pictures of that. Do you have any?

I can't see this race, evolving on its own, having much of a nudity taboo.

Neither can I unfortunately. Another problem as well as drawing females naked, is having to draw males naked. Are the genitals on rhino's exposed? I can't see any in the pictures I've seen, but would a bipedal's become exposed anyway?

One, rhino feet flare out slightly, to distribute weight over a wider area and reduce wear on the footpad. A biped's feet would need to flare out even more to reduce foot pressure more, and might look more like inverted mushrooms than the columns in your drawing. You could dismiss this by saying their skin and joints are so tough they can stand up to any amount of wear.

How do you show that at the angle of the picture though?

Note that pachyderms like rhinos and elephants cannot jump, and have limited mobility in their feet, so your creature is not going to be leaping around and performing fancy footwork in combat. It's going to stand there, absorb hits, and knock anything that comes near it into next week. I guess what I'm saying is, don't make them ninjas.

Oooh, lucky I found that out. What are some fighting styles you would recommend for such a creature? Are there any? Sure in the early days there won't be much sophistication, but over time a warrior caste will develop fighting styles and techniques which go beyond "this is the pointy end. This is the end you shove into people."

In fact looking at it more and more, I think this race would be very prone to dropping on all fours when it fought & I'm not sure if this was what you were going for.

Yeah, no that's another species. I had the same thought myself looking at this creature, but swords and guns don't work well when you're on all fours

Thanks for all the feedback everyone Greatly appreciated, and please, keep it coming.

[RemusShepherd]

Sorry, pet peeve of mine having all alien carnivores be aggressive, while herbivores are always placid.

Oh, lots of herbivores are *aggressive*, particularly the rhino. But they're not hunters. Hunters have to be able to move quickly, and often stealthily. They need grasping weapons like claws and teeth to snag running prey.

Herbivores have defensive weapons like horns and (in dinosaurs) club tails. They can be big and bulky as a defense, as big things are harder for small carnivores to take down. (If they're not big and bulky, herbies are either lightning-fast or super-stealthy, or they live in regions where there are no carnivores their size.) When herbivores fight, they either stand their ground with the rest of the herd or they charge. They don't go leaping and weaving like carnivores can.

Of course, you could go in another direction with this guy. There isn't much difference externally between a rhino and a dinosaur. Parallel evolution could explain why he looks like a rhino -- just give him sharp teeth and feet like a T-rex and say he's a carnivore, and I'd believe he could move around rather quickly.

Note that carnivores also move quickly because eating meat leads to having a higher metabolic rate and thus more efficient muscles and more energy. Herbivores gain efficiency by being really, really big and by working together in large herds.

Look up 'platypus milk glands' for details.

Err.. I've been unable to find any pictures of that. Do you have any?

(checks) You're right, the internet is oddly deficient in pictures of platypus mammaries. There are lots of sites describing them, though...you may have to work with a description.

Another problem as well as drawing females naked, is having to draw males naked. Are the genitals on rhino's exposed? I can't see any in the pictures I've seen, but would a bipedal's become exposed anyway?

The furry community handles genitals by assuming biped males have rather extraordinary sheaths, that are completely invisible until needed. No reason not to take that concept.

One, rhino feet flare out slightly, to distribute weight over a wider area and reduce wear on the footpad. A biped's feet would need to flare out even more to reduce foot pressure more, and might look more like inverted mushrooms than the columns in your drawing. You could dismiss this by saying their skin and joints are so tough they can stand up to any amount of wear.

How do you show that at the angle of the picture though?

Oooh, lucky I found that out. What are some fighting styles you would recommend for such a creature? Are there any? Sure in the early days there won't be much sophistication, but over time a warrior caste will develop fighting styles and techniques which go beyond "this is the pointy end. This is the end you shove into people."

Well, there's the Superman fighting technique. "Hit me. Go on, hit me. Okay, now I'll hit you, only much harder."

For a good fighting technique that doesn't require much motion, think about Judo. Judo is the martial art that turns an opponent's movements against them. Your guys could stand there and deflect attacks with their hands, horns, and tail, and use their strength and leverage to throw or flip opponents. I think Akido is similar -- research those and see what appeals to you.

That's all assuming melee combat, of course. In modern combat, these guys would go well with riot shields and big freakin guns.

[Darzoni]

Humans are thought to have been arboreal herbivores before ecological pressure forced them to leave the trees and seek other means of sustenance. In our case, speed and mobility was a necessity due to the environment we lived in, which is also why we have binocular vision and can see color. To put it simply: the same shoulder mechanics that allow us to throw a spear allowed our distant relatives to swing through trees to escape predators.

My point was not that herbivores were passive, merely that they tend to be much more bulky and possess defensive adaptations than a carnivore, who would possess offensive adaptations that are specifically evolved to kill things.

Posture... well, I sort of imagine the race you described having a sort of kangaroo-like stance, so they'd be ready to use their upper body as a counterweight to their club-tail. The tusks could still work, but the race might view them much like we view our hair.

[Bwerith]

If you want to keep the tusks, why not have them stick out to the side? Your aliens would have to be careful when turning their heads in the presence of friends and family, though

The reason for clothing can be something cultural like a concept of propriety or modesty. Or, clothing can serve the function of showing what clan/tribe/family/troop/etc they belong to, or show their social status, or marriage availability, or something.

Or it could be a "sexual selection" or an honour type thing... if they can manage to fight while wearing "frivolous" clothing, without letting it get ripped or dirty, then it shows they must be some kind of awesome warrior, and therefore shows they are a good potential mate or recruit. (Or both

[Ophiuchus]

I'm gonna poke my nose in here. I agree with most of what's been said so far with the armor and feet. About the "cultural realism" factor: Warrior castes are not merely fighting. Do a little reading on the old Indian caste system - the warriors weren't wrestlers so much as they were, well, warriors, who were skilled in leadership and war. It was the sort of archetype of the king riding off with his most trusted generals with a white horse and a sword in hand and a little crown on his helmet and all that sort of thing. You really don't have whole castes whose purpose is to play games for peoples' entertainment - and if you do, you would call it the fighter or wrestler caste, not the warrior caste. Warriors and soldiers are for serious defense of the populance. Again, I could probably do little better than to point you toward the Indian caste system.

</$.02>

[JohnLynch]

Oh, lots of herbivores are *aggressive*, particularly the rhino. But they're not hunters. Hunters have to be able to move quickly, and often stealthily. They need grasping weapons like claws and teeth to snag running prey.

Good point. Another point is, without the need for meat, they'd have no reason to create spears or any weapons. So they wouldn't be in a good position to become the dominant race through combat.

So I either have to slim them down a bit and make them carnivores, or have a race that forced them to learn about combat. Interesting problem.

Thanks

For a good fighting technique that doesn't require much motion, think about Judo. Judo is the martial art that turns an opponent's movements against them. Your guys could stand there and deflect attacks with their hands, horns, and tail, and use their strength and leverage to throw or flip opponents. I think Akido is similar -- research those and see what appeals to you.

Oooh, thanks. I'll look more into those.

Posture... well, I sort of imagine the race you described having a sort of kangaroo-like stance, so they'd be ready to use their upper body as a counterweight to their club-tail. The tusks could still work, but the race might view them much like we view our hair.

That'd work. As for the tusks, I'm thinking perhaps they should just be removed. Although I could have them more at the sides (per bwerith's good suggestion), I just can't see them being that useful (even in ancient combat) for a biped. They could exist merely as a hold-over, they could also be amputated as a passage to manhood. Something for me to think about.

Do a little reading on the old Indian caste system - the warriors weren't wrestlers so much as they were, well, warriors, who were skilled in leadership and war. It was the sort of archetype of the king riding off with his most trusted generals with a white horse and a sword in hand and a little crown on his helmet and all that sort of thing.

I'll be sure to check it out. I was going to base the Warrior caste on ancient Sumari (they evolved over the years and went through various changes), but more sources certainly can't hurt to get inspiration from

Thanks again everyone for the feedback on the race as a whole. You've certainly given me a lot to think about.

[Faub]

Something I drew based on your description.

Humans developed in an isolated region which allowed them to evolve. They became bipedal when they needed to cross large distances. Almost all primates use tools in some form or another.

Calling a race of creatures a "warrior caste" doesn't make sense to me. Creatures aren't warriors or artisans or whatever else unless they are bred for that purpose. If these creatures are all warriors, they must have been bred for the role by an intelligent race and been infused with some kind of intelligence.

Intelligence is more closely associated with smaller predators as the predator must outwit the prey. A large herbivore, while not a stretch for sci-fi or furry comics, would have been difficult to pull off as intelligent.

[JohnLynch]

Something I drew based on your description.

Woah! That's one extremely cool picture. Thanks a lot for that I also think you got the hands and feet really well done as well Although it would be painful to sit down on a chair with that tail there.

Humans developed in an isolated region which allowed them to evolve. They became bipedal when they needed to cross large distances. Almost all primates use tools in some form or another.

Interesting. From what I've read, there's evidence for and against that theory of evolution (although from what I've read that IS the established theory, there's been new evidence in recent years that does suggest otherwise though).

Calling a race of creatures a "warrior caste" doesn't make sense to me. Creatures aren't warriors or artisans or whatever else unless they are bred for that purpose. If these creatures are all warriors, they must have been bred for the role by an intelligent race and been infused with some kind of intelligence.

Don't worry, I've got that covered. And I won't be falling into trap of the old "all klingons are warriors" (although Star Trek did retcon a better culture for them in the later series). Also one of the overall theme's will be whether or not a caste system is right, and the problems it can place on people within such a society. Merely because someone is of a particular race or species, doesn't mean they want to, or would be particularly good at, a specific job.

Intelligence is more closely associated with smaller predators as the predator must outwit the prey. A large herbivore, while not a stretch for sci-fi or furry comics, would have been difficult to pull off as intelligent.

I didn't know that. Thanks, definitely something to keep in mind for the future races I create. Luckily enough though, I've got that problem worked out for this particular race anyway

Thanks again for the feedback, it was extremely interesting. And I especially liked the picture, and will be using it for reference when I re-design the creatures

[JohnLynch]

This is primarily a post looking for feedback on my drawing style. I draw this by hand (before lining and coloring it on the computer) and would like some feedback on how I'm drawing

Although a side-note, yes this is -suppose- to be the same person in the first picture. Obviously it's evolved a lot since then I don't know which version will be the final one though (whether it will look more like the first picture or this one, or something different).

Oh, and I wouldn't mind some feedback on the hands and feet. I tried to draw the feet, based on everyone's recommendation. Did I get closer to what you want? Is it close enough? Or do I still need some more work? Thanks again

[Ophiuchus]

Defender for a herbivore race. Hmm. You need either a shield or a shell, methinks. Your characters will likely be protecting themselves from arrows and claws most of the time, and counterattacking at need.

[Blackaby]

I love the way this character is evolving.

I sketched this race a few times and what I ended up - putting my love of Darwin to use - was a slightly triangular shaped rhino with a big arse and shorter legs to balance out its tail. With this physiology, it seems easier to balance out the animal's tail-swinging.

The horns stayed - and I think they should stay, because they're part of the race's evolution from four-legs to two - at least, that's where I see them evolving from. But obviously, smaller and not likely to get in the way of vision - mine were at the top of the head and at the sides.

RE the shell, I see the beastie coming from one of those dinosaurs with the big shell and the horny heads and the spiky tail. You know the ones. It'd take a lot to get any animal to go, HEY, let's evolve out of our armour completely. Maybe it could have some bony thing encasing part of its torso?

Of course, this is redesign 3 underway so you'll probably wanna quit - really a design like this could take forever!

[Bwerith]

Intelligence doesn't HAVE to be associated with being a predator. It can be associated with habitually living in large social groups. Like baboons, who don't have to work very hard to outwit the leaves and grass and stuff that they eat.

Also orangutans and gorillas are quite brainy when compared to the average mammal, and they're herbivores. Chimps do eat some meat, but it really doesn't make up a large part of their diet, calorie-wise, so they can basically be considered herbivores (well, frugivores) too. And their tool-use, culture, and problem-solving abilities are well documented.

Having to keep track of relationships, your own status and the status of everyone else you have to deal with in the course of a day, which members of the group it's safe to beat up on and steal from, which ones have loads of friends that might attack you, which ones are likely to help you out in return for a favour some day, which ones might try to cheat you... tricky stuff. Big brains are quite handy, to keep track of it all.

[Blackaby]

I thought animals only became smarter by eating other animals brains, but I could be thinking of zombies.

[Bwerith]

In that case, humans must be the biggest brain-cannibals of them all.

Our species' dark, dark secret....