Webcomic Hate

[IVstudios]

But it's so hard to call people idiots to there face, what with the cost of travel now-a-days. I mean if you have to insult everyone you don't like face to face, you'd have to catch a plane every time you came across something you didn't like on the internet.

Though the majority of people who are jerks on the internet may only be so because of the anonymity it affords, it seems a little deflective to just assume everyone who uses the internet as a vehicle for their spite doesn't have the balls to do it you your face, given the opportunity.

Now, give me your address so I might come to your house and call you a fool.

[Dotty]

I think we know what sort Duffies was referring to. But I love you, IV, so we'll let that slide.

...for now.

[IVstudios]

Your current avatar makes that statement especially threatening.

[Guildmaster Van]

Yeah, I can make the distinction. One's valid criticism. The other is amusement at the expense of others and nothing else.

Actually, one is amusement at the expense of others which will hopefully make them reevaluate everything.
Valid criticism requires some sort of valid subject for criticism, which the shittiest of the shit comics is not.

There's nicer ways of saying "start from scratch" than how you did in that Comic Pitching thread. Effectively, you achieved nothing except for adding a bit more crap to the internet. If your goal is to improve the internet by reducing the amount of atrocious webcomics, you're going about it the wrong way. If you're mocking people because it's fun, then you're not really adding anything worthwile to the web either.

Achieved nothing? He wiped out his entire comic gallery and started over
The only thing achieving nothing is the wagging of fingers to chastise me, especially when I am validated like this.

He seems to be back now, and for the most part a bit more mature, though sadly seemingly corrupted by 4chan.

Actually, the Chanspeak comes from spending too much time writing and editing Encyclopedia Dramatica articles.

Being an ass on internet is for cowards. Restraining yourself on internet, even if something does annoy you, is something to be admired.

This is the argument every lolcow makes when they get trolled.
"You're a coward, and I'm better than you for restraining myself"

To reconcile their damaged ego from an assault of words, the troll victim feel they must put their victimizers down in order to pull themselves back up. They somehow think that by standing back with a holier than thou attitude that somehow it dispels the troll's comment. It doesn't. It just makes trolls cackle and grin more, singling that person out for more trolling.

The correct way to respond to a troll is to let a troll win, or to give them the impression they've won. If you don't do anything to validate a troll, then the troll's purpose was defeated and they may even come out looking stupid to other trolls.

[KWill]

Achieved nothing? He wiped out his entire comic gallery and started over
The only thing achieving nothing is the wagging of fingers to chastise me, especially when I am validated like this.

Now, I'm sure you've got an email from him stating that it wasn't K-Dawg's suggestion nor Montyandwoolley pointing him to Nuklear Power nor Robin's clarification that stealing sprites was a violation of the TOS that convinced him to start over, but your quips were the deciding factor in getting him to redo his comic. That's the only possible evidence I can think of as to why you came to the conclusion that it can be attributed to you that can't be explained as wishful thinking and petty vanity.

[Guildmaster Van]

Durr. Van translates out to "vain". My internet moniker is literally "Vain Douchebag".

That aside, yes, I do personally take credit for him starting over. You just have the read the comic he put up to tell. It's oozing with leftover animosity from the thread. Defense of the comic name, defense of sprite use - general bawwwwing and butthurt.

Besides, if I didn't post in that thread, do you think Monty or Dawg would have? I don't think they would have bothered wasting their time save for counterbalancing my harshness, and certainly if they had posted without me posting at all I don't think it would have phased that stupid kid enough to restart his comic. People don't react dramatically to simple criticism.

No, the outpouring of hate I generated did the trick.

[KWill]

That aside, yes, I do personally take credit for him starting over. You just have the read the comic he put up to tell. It's oozing with leftover animosity from the thread. Defense of the comic name, defense of sprite use - general bawwwwing and butthurt.

Begs to question: Why would he bother to restart in the first place then? And keep the name and sprite style? More likely because of the legality issues raised by Robin than anything else.

Besides, if I didn't post in that thread, do you think Monty or Dawg would have? I don't think they would have bothered wasting their time save for counterbalancing my harshness, and certainly if they had posted without me posting at all I don't think it would have phased that stupid kid enough to restart his comic. People don't react dramatically to simple criticism.

Hard to say, but I'd guess no, since Monty posts in a lot of threads delivering constructive criticism and Dawg posted criticism on another comic about the same time you ripped on Death by Chibi. Can't really be certain that you're wrong without asking them both about it, but based off that, I'd say you weren't responsible for their posting in that thread. Though both of them are welcome to correct me.

As to "dramatic reaction": Just like you said. Hence, it's more likely he reacted to Robin's closing remarks concerning the legality of his comic.

[Yeahduff]

Lol, "dramatic results."

[Dotty]

Durr. Van translates out to "vain". My internet moniker is literally "Vain Douchebag".

That aside, yes, I do personally take credit for him starting over. You just have the read the comic he put up to tell. It's oozing with leftover animosity from the thread. Defense of the comic name, defense of sprite use - general bawwwwing and butthurt.

Besides, if I didn't post in that thread, do you think Monty or Dawg would have? I don't think they would have bothered wasting their time save for counterbalancing my harshness, and certainly if they had posted without me posting at all I don't think it would have phased that stupid kid enough to restart his comic. People don't react dramatically to simple criticism.

No, the outpouring of hate I generated did the trick.

I'm not trying to alter the topic in any way, nor drive it off course, nor trying to be offensive, but after the last few posts you've made I really have to ask; are you the same guy I knew a couple years ago that did white hydra? If so, did you always have an ego that was larger than life, or did I just miss that?

Seriously, I can't imagine the size of your head after the last couple of posts. o.o

On topic, Dawg's been known to help people in webcomicry on here many a time. Also, Robins good at pointing things out in a helpful way. Just FYI. Also, I really hate when webcomics take their archives down prior to a reboot, or just take them down period.

I like watching an artists evolution. I also miss the old Go For It! and White Hydra archives.

[Yeahduff]

I'm not trying to alter the topic in any way, nor drive it off course, nor trying to be offensive, but after the last few posts you've made I really have to ask; are you the same guy I knew a couple years ago that did white hydra? If so, did you always have an ego that was larger than life, or did I just miss that?

Uh, yeah, you somehow missed that.

[Dotty]

In my defense, i'm fairly dumb.

[Guildmaster Van]

Begs to question: Why would he bother to restart in the first place then? And keep the name and sprite style? More likely because of the legality issues raised by Robin than anything else.

As to "dramatic reaction": Just like you said. Hence, it's more likely he reacted to Robin's closing remarks concerning the legality of his comic.

Somehow I doubt that. Robin closed the thread so no one can respond and suddenly ZOMG ITS HER WORD THAT MAKES THE DIFFERENCE

The question about sprites was a question of terms of service. I have no idea where you're getting this "legality" thing from.
If someone brought up the point of ToS on something I made, I'd argue for my work until I was blue in the face, and then argue some more until the subject is dropped or the supposed violation is physically removed by an administrator. "Why can't I?" "Why would you?" "You can't tell me!" "Who's the judge?" "What about artistic license?" "FUCK YOU I'M A DRAGON" are but a few of the things I'd shout out.

As trolling DevianTARTlets has shown, "artists" can be easily discouraged and trolled into deleting everything and they do so with ample regularity. The "DELETE FUCKING EVERYTHING" phenom.

It is far easier to convince someone that their work is bad than that their work is breaking someone else's "rules". Hell, I would rather pull my comic from CG and replace it with a big "FUCK YOU" sign than comply with rules. On the other hand, if you convince me that my comic is substandard, I am much more likely to remove it to avoid embarrassment or further ridicule.

[IVstudios]

Not that I'm for censorship, an though it's a moot point because you're not actually doing it, but why would you walk into someone's house, break their rules for the house and be surprised when they get pissed at you? Especially when in order to get in you have to agree to follow the rules in the first place?

[KWill]

Him pointing out that all sprites are drawn by the artist in that first new comic is what supports my suspicion that Robin's closing remarks had more impact than what you added.

I can also see why you wouldn't run into the issue of having to defend your comic in that regard, since you don't run a sprite comic with sprites copied from somewhere else.

[Yeahduff]

The question about sprites was a question of terms of service. I have no idea where you're getting this "legality" thing from.

It's in the terms of service because of legality issues. Otherwise Keenspace couldn't care less.

[Guildmaster Van]

I'm not trying to alter the topic in any way, nor drive it off course, nor trying to be offensive, but after the last few posts you've made I really have to ask; are you the same guy I knew a couple years ago that did white hydra? If so, did you always have an ego that was larger than life, or did I just miss that?

I always had an ego - only this time my ire isn't in some random topic where I squabble with Kolter, but rather is directed toward the webcomic community. I'm sick of poor quality, the acceptance of low quality as standard, and the inability of the webcomic community to evolve past that. Webcomics were "supposed" to affect sales of print comics as a new form of accessible media, but in truth webcomics are no competitors. Webcomics are so wrapped up in their faggery daggery doo that the media is overflowing with garbage while there are so very few precious innovative and interesting comics out there, not to mention funny. So be it if I have lead by example by creating something that is up and beyond the norm, beyond expectations, and in general breaks the rule of thumb about shit webcomics.

Him pointing out that all sprites are drawn by the artist in that first new comic is what supports my suspicion that Robin's closing remarks had more impact than what you added.

If you had bothered reading anything before on his site, you would have known that he also "drew" sprites back then too.

It's in the terms of service because of legality issues. Otherwise Keenspace couldn't care less.

Let's pull up that bit (Which isn't actually in the Terms of Service - comforting to know moderators here don't have to read the actual ToS and can act on it based on their own volition)

A Warning for Sprite Webcomics

While information would like to be free (for the public to access, and sometimes feline too), current law doesn't allow a full fledge clone of someone's hard-earned work. Copyright still exists on the Internet, and we here at Comic Genesis have to follow a law called the Digital Multimedia Copyright Act. This law basically gives some teeth to comic owners who see their webcomic being copied all over the place without their permission. This law (and copyright law in general) also gives major corporations like Capcom and Nintendo rights on how their games are used.

What does that mean to web comics? It means that some webcomics, known as sprite webcomics, will make Comic Genesis have to face legal action. We don't want that. So double-check to see:

* Is your comic using sprites from any game, like Megaman or Final Fantasy, even if they're recolored? (ex: Bob and George)
* Is your comic using screen captures from any game in normal gameplay?

If you answered "Yes" to any of the above, then please spare the trouble and don't apply here.

Your webcomic is clear to come aboard:

* If it looks pixelated, but you've all hand-build the pixels (all original, ex: Diesel Sweeties).
* If it uses a game engine like Quake 2, but the models and renders are original.
* If it uses trademarked characters that you drew yourself, but you recognize the trademarks on your website or in the comic itself.

So, what do we have here?
Welllll, the thing isn't even in ToS as I said. It's a "warning". A "warning". Seriously?
What's more even with the slight tweaking he did to the sprites he'd still be breaking point one on this warning. This isn't a rule - this is a form of discrimination

More importantly, according to this, blatent ripoff sprite comics are okay under the ToS because the ToS doesn't actually cover them. Did you guys know you missed this? Who is looking into these things?
Just make me a staff member already. I'll be the new "bad guy" that does things you mods and admins won't touch.

[Yeahduff]

I always had an ego - only this time my ire isn't in some random topic where I squabble with Kolter, but rather is directed toward the webcomic community. I'm sick of poor quality, the acceptance of low quality as standard, and the inability of the webcomic community to evolve past that. Webcomics were "supposed" to affect sales of print comics as a new form of accessible media, but in truth webcomics are no competitors. Webcomics are so wrapped up in their faggery daggery doo that the media is overflowing with garbage while there are so very few precious innovative and interesting comics out there, not to mention funny. So be it if I have lead by example by creating something that is up and beyond the norm, beyond expectations, and in general breaks the rule of thumb about shit webcomics.

Dems ain't dragons, dey's windmills.

Let's pull up that bit (Which isn't actually in the Terms of Service - comforting to know moderators here don't have to read the actual ToS and can act on it based on their own volition)

A Warning for Sprite Webcomics

While information would like to be free (for the public to access, and sometimes feline too), current law doesn't allow a full fledge clone of someone's hard-earned work. Copyright still exists on the Internet, and we here at Comic Genesis have to follow a law called the Digital Multimedia Copyright Act. This law basically gives some teeth to comic owners who see their webcomic being copied all over the place without their permission. This law (and copyright law in general) also gives major corporations like Capcom and Nintendo rights on how their games are used.

What does that mean to web comics? It means that some webcomics, known as sprite webcomics, will make Comic Genesis have to face legal action. We don't want that. So double-check to see:

* Is your comic using sprites from any game, like Megaman or Final Fantasy, even if they're recolored? (ex: Bob and George)
* Is your comic using screen captures from any game in normal gameplay?

If you answered "Yes" to any of the above, then please spare the trouble and don't apply here.

Your webcomic is clear to come aboard:

* If it looks pixelated, but you've all hand-build the pixels (all original, ex: Diesel Sweeties).
* If it uses a game engine like Quake 2, but the models and renders are original.
* If it uses trademarked characters that you drew yourself, but you recognize the trademarks on your website or in the comic itself.

So, what do we have here?
Welllll, the thing isn't even in ToS as I said. It's a "warning". A "warning". Seriously?
What's more even with the slight tweaking he did to the sprites he'd still be breaking point one on this warning. This isn't a rule - this is a form of discrimination

More importantly, according to this, blatent ripoff sprite comics are okay under the ToS because the ToS doesn't actually cover them. Did you guys know you missed this? Who is looking into these things?
Just make me a staff member already. I'll be the new "bad guy" that does things you mods and admins won't touch.

Oh, so it is a legality issue. OK.

[ShineDog]

Van, Dude, calm down a bit?

I will gladly accept this part of your argument

"I'm sick of poor quality, the acceptance of low quality as standard, and the inability of the webcomic community to evolve past that."

Because, yeah, its absolutley spot on and holy hell this place needs a crap filter. But all this? All the chanspeak? It is turning off ears.




Regardless. I still stick with my point that theres nothing wrong with laughing at the dregs of the internet, and a bit of tough love would make these forums a much better place. The whole "hyper defensive when given harsh crit" shit should never have gotten the legs it did.

[KWill]

If you had bothered reading anything before on his site, you would have known that he also "drew" sprites back then too.

Reality begs to differ:

If you have been following this comic for a while, I do intend to restore the stories I had to purge, just with sprites I made myself.

*snip moving goal posts*

Since we're debating about what made him purge his archives, not what's in the ToS, that's not at all relevant. Nor is whether a moderator did or didn't misinterpret the rules. It not being explicitely explained in the ToS makes it look like he didn't read that at all, but relied on this statement here:

Second of all: comicgenesis has a particular policy towards Sprite comics - that is to say, unless they're home made, they violate the terms of service. That said, I don't know if you made the sprites yourself, so just keep it in mind as a general statement.

Which supports my argument that Robin's final post did more to influence his behavior than your remarks.
(Also, the relevant article in the ToS would be #4, particularly the last sentence.)

Regardless. I still stick with my point that theres nothing wrong with laughing at the dregs of the internet, and a bit of tough love would make these forums a much better place. The whole "hyper defensive when given harsh crit" shit should never have gotten the legs it did.

I'd classify Dawg's criticism in that thread as harsh, and you're right, there's nothing wrong with that. What's "wrong" is infantile criticism that's more focussed on the entertainment of the critic and anyone watching.

[McDuffies]

But it's so hard to call people idiots to there face, what with the cost of travel now-a-days. I mean if you have to insult everyone you don't like face to face, you'd have to catch a plane every time you came across something you didn't like on the internet.

That is if you assume that you have to insult someone every time you see something you don't like.

Though the majority of people who are jerks on the internet may only be so because of the anonymity it affords, it seems a little deflective to just assume everyone who uses the internet as a vehicle for their spite doesn't have the balls to do it you your face, given the opportunity.

I don't neccesarily think that, but it is violence without consequences. Van is probably capable of being violent in real life, but he payed for that, while on internet he hasn't had consequences that he couldn't revert by begging some admin to let him back in.
Internet easily drags the worst side of a person because of lack of consequences for the one who insults and because you can't really see the effects of your actions in live. It's made into a playground for people's fantasies, where they can act the way they can't afford in real life. Someone's fantasy is to be a cartoon character who makes people laugh, and someone's is to be a strong macho man who punches everyone who steps on his shadow.

This is the argument every lolcow makes when they get trolled.
"You're a coward, and I'm better than you for restraining myself"

To reconcile their damaged ego from an assault of words, the troll victim feel they must put their victimizers down in order to pull themselves back up. They somehow think that by standing back with a holier than thou attitude that somehow it dispels the troll's comment. It doesn't. It just makes trolls cackle and grin more, singling that person out for more trolling.

The correct way to respond to a troll is to let a troll win, or to give them the impression they've won. If you don't do anything to validate a troll, then the troll's purpose was defeated and they may even come out looking stupid to other trolls.

Blah blah blah. Spare me copypasting from some blog dedicated to making up excuses for acting like an asshole or wherever you've copied than from.

I wasn't talking about myself at all, nor saying that I was better than anyone. I've been an asshole to people, as many of people here can testify, but that's how I know that being asshole is easy, and being reasonable is difficult, and all the more reason to respect people who have more self-restrain than I do.

It's nice that you're admitting you're a troll though.