So what's the fascination with Manga/Anime?

Jesslynstormheart · Post by **Jesslynstormheart** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:12 pm

I keep half an eye on thewebcomiclist.com and onlinecomics.net. It looks like the newer comics that get the most attention are the ones that are labled 'Manga'. Now don't get me wrong, there are some Manga comics that I think are nicely done and I've even bookmarked a couple. However, I've seen a lot of poorly drawn stuff in this genre still get a vast number of hits over much better art. It seems that even a poor attempt at the style will guarantee you an exponential number of hits over the competition. It is to that extent that I don't understand the fascination of it all...like people can't get enough of it even though the WC market is saturated with it. I'm not trying to knock the style... obviously people like it a lot so there must be something to it. Just wondering what people find so fascinating about it?

Komiyan · Post by **Komiyan** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:22 pm

The web comic list classifies stuff quite poorly.. I got put in manga instead of fantasy. That burned my biscuits. Chances are sometimes they just take a cursory glance at it and label it.

Kilre · Post by **Kilre** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:56 pm

It's not just the art style, but the story as well, that (imho) distinguishes manga from other comics. It tends to have a "tried and true" plot that just draws people in, no matter how many times it's been done.

This is the same with most RPGs nowadays. We know what to expect, so we like it already, and only the minor variations on characters, plot, and setting keep us attached. Note, though, this isn't the case with all manga, but the norm for a lot of manga webcomics.

AVEM · Post by **AVEM** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:16 pm

Well, since the published Manga is so popular, whether cliche or not, then that means it works. People see this great success and want to imitate it. I'm not saying that all webmanga is done by people who are greedy, they just want to try something that they know works. That's what I see, anyway. *shrug*
And its cool.

EvilChihuahua · Post by **EvilChihuahua** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:16 pm

As for the art style, I find it easier to draw stylistically with my pseudo-mang4 style, than trying to do photorealistic stuff. As for why m4nga instead of western style, it's easier to mask lack of talent when your art looks exactly like everything else. The brain just fills in the gaps with better stuff. Also, Mang4 is cool. Stuff like bleach and Naruto just have this little touch of epicosity that makes me go "duuuuuude...."

AVEM · Post by **AVEM** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:19 pm

Ha.
EvilChihiuahua, you post makes me laugh, but not in a negative way. I agree.
I see truth in what you say all over the internet.

Rcmonroe · Post by **Rcmonroe** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:21 pm

jesslynstormheart wrote:I'm not trying to knock the style... obviously people like it a lot so there must be something to it. Just wondering what people find so fascinating about it?

Uh, ya got me. I don't understand the fascination with anything that's blatantly derivative of something else.

Actually, that's not true. I think I do understand it. Probably most people who read webcomics grew up with that stuff. They're familiar with it, and people like things they're familiar with. I didn't grow up with it at all, so it didn't influence my tastes at all. I just see it as unimaginative, even when it's done really well, which it is a lot of the time. I think it's strange that people with a lot of technical skill would want to copy someone else's style, but that's just my opinion.

When I was in college (a long time ago) I saw a lot of people aping Bloom County (which of course had aped Doonesbury) and I suppose some of that influenced me, but as an artist, I was determined to find my own style. It may not be a great style but it's all mine. I take some personal satisfaction in that.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:24 pm

It's simply a trend. Trends work by having a vast majority of people following whatever is popular at the moment, and then switching to the new trend as soon as it comes by.
Sure, at the moment, manga offers something that tired and limping American comics don't, and that's a part of popularty of manga. But that doesn't explain why some things that could only nominaly be called manga (some knowledgeable people coined the term "manga influenced" for them) still get their piece of the pie although, they don't share anything but some basic stylistic characteristics (large eyes, sweatdrops) with manga.
Simply, it's hit at the moment. Kinda like when some music genre gets rotation on MTV and then suddenly, even the crappiest music gets sold only because it can be filed with that genre.

Uh, ya got me. I don't understand the fascination with anything that's blatantly derivative of something else.

Well actually, it's easy to understand, when people don't want to put effort into reading something, they'll choose something derivative. They'll get, for instance, the latest Hollywood romantic comedy, they know the beginning, the middle, the end, every step that such film makes along the way is familiar to them, and that's just what they want, because anything new and original would ask for effort.
I understand that, after all, if a man comes tired from work he can't be expected to put more effort into activity that is supposed to be rest. We all have our days when we just feel like staring at the screen for two hours and letting our brain go elsewhere.
Of course, that doesn't mean people should limit themselves that way all the time, but I suppose this world needs derivative things as much as new and original things.

Swikan · Post by **Swikan** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:35 pm

My mom didn't understand my fascination with Elfquest and my grandmother didn't understand my dad's fascination with Dick Tracy.

I think the style of Manga is aestheticly pleasing and lends itself well to both the silly and the serious.

Cope · Post by **Cope** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:15 pm

I like manga style cuz I think it looks pretty.

Also, what Swikan said.

Levi-chan · Post by **Levi-chan** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:38 pm

Eh. It's different with me and my friends. A chunk of manga goes into the "what the heck is this (WTHIT)"? category, so we tend to check it out more.

I'm not saying that non-manga WTHIT comics are non-existent; maybe their japanese counterparts get more press.

-L

MinekaC. · Post by **MinekaC.** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:41 pm

Well, from my persepective, I draw in the manga style for a few reasons:
1. It is easy for me. Since 5th grade I loved Sailor Moon, and that was primarily what I drew, as such the only style that got any serious attention, to the point where I can draw cutsy anime girls in my sleep.
2. For me, I didn't choose it because it was/is popular, it's just the only thing that in my opinion I can draw well. So I guess you can say I did choose it because Sailor Moon was popular and I love SM, and as a result I'm just being controlled by the masses in that instance. But I personally believe that to be un-true since when I watched SM it was at 8am on USA network, right before the repeats of that TV show Gary Coleman was in. In otherwords: I watched it before it became popular. So yea, SM became popular, but I was on the band wagon for it before it really picked up in the states.
3. I personally believe that whilest all manga shares in evitable similarities with other mangas, they are, in essence can be quite different style wise. Yes, shoujo's tend to stay similar, but varying genres, shoujo, mecha, shounen, they all have their own type of style, and why is this? Because their style developed from reading other manga's. I mean, compare Naoko Takeuchi to Rumiko Takahashi, BIG difference in drawing style. Naoko's is VERY wispy, tends to make everyone look anorexic(sp?) and ephasizes joints and feet/hands alot. Rumiko is more realistic, but where as Naoko is very detailed in her faces, Rumiko makes them sort of a "passing glance" that they're not that important.
So, on my *thinks* fifth strip in, before I got started on the story line aspect of my comic, I made a comment on people who pick up those "how to draw manga" and learn from them need to put the book down, and go out and develope their own style, since anyone can learn from a book, but then it'll all look the same.
Sadly, though even though I developed my style through watching, and ALOT of doodles, it still came out looking like main-stream anime-ish and not the wispy manga that I would've preferred.
I have officially lost my train of thought and can't remember what the hell I was talking about.
Okay, quick closing since my head feels like it's spinning: I grant you there are some out there in the WC world that do manga-ish style because it seems to sell, but really who out there WOULDN'T want their comic to take off? Exactly. But there are also those out there who do their comic in this style because they love the look, they like how for them it's easy to draw since they grew up with it, and they have a story to tell.
And if it makes you feel better my story DOESN'T take place in Japan, it takes place in NYC.
Goddess I KNOW I started out defending my style choice, but I'm just so damn bad at arguements, I guess what I'm saying is some choose that style cause they like those comics, and some choose the more traditional american style because they like those style, it's all a matter of opinion. Now exscuse me I think I'm going to go pass out.

Keffria · Post by **Keffria** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:24 pm

If you talk to manga junkies, one of the standard responses is that "manga covers a much broader variety of characters and plots", and you can kind of see where comments like this come from, in spite of the fact that American comics are about more than just superheroes.

Going into the comic book stores in my area (there are four 'standard' comic book stores clustered within a few kilometers of each other in the Fake London), 99% of the material is your typical super-hero stuff, super-hero action figures, and the requisite DnD equipment. The other 1% (non-super-hero comics and the like) is stuck up on the high shelves at the back of the store. Meanwhile, walking into the only dedicated manga store in the Fake London, I see books that cater to people of all ages, interests, and bizarre sexual fetishes.

I can't say much about other places, but here in the Fake London, it seems to me that people - especially young women - who might once have picked up those non-superhero titles in a comic book store have gone to manga because nobody has told them that North Americans draw more than super-heroes. And while I can't talk about other cities, I can say for certain (i.e. based on personal experiences) that the traditional comic book stores in my town have responded to the manga craze not by starting to carry manga or expanding their inventory of non-superhero NA comics, but by just carrying lots and lots of what they always have, and even steering clear of pseudo~manga.

It's silly. Just look at the wide variety of comics on CG produced by North Americans. And granted, lots of it is manga-influenced, but lots of it isn't. Wouldn't it be great to see some of it on a bookstore shelf?

Ah, and there's also the fact that comic book stores can be very intimidating for the average person, especially if we're talking about girls. Putting stigma issues aside, the fact is that many comic book store workers are like Comic Book Guy, and the patrons are often little better.

In the end, it's all about the availability of interesting subject matter, and the feeling of belonging to the community that reads it ... I think, anyway.

Anyway, it bears mentioning that 99% of manga is total crap, but for the moment, too many fangirls are too blind to this fact for the craze to die down.

*edit* Oh, and OBS, I think that the two questions are linked. No need to completely brush off a post that clearly involved earnest thought.

Kilre · Post by **Kilre** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:35 pm

OBS wrote:
You completely missed the question. It didn't ask why you choose to draw in a manga style, it asked why so many people like manga as a comic style.

The simple fact that so many people draw in manga-esque style lends creedence to the above points. It is rather important that artists can be influenced by other art styles.

Like MinekaC said, it's easy. If it's easy to draw, more people will draw it. And if there's more of it, more people will read it. And out of those people that read manga-esque, many are going to like the way it's drawn/done, and so will tend to like manga more than other styles. Refer to mcDuffie's post above for a better explanation.

Rich of EMD · Post by **Rich of EMD** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:09 pm

I don't think it's hard to really say why people like manga.

As has already been stated, it's not the hardest thing to draw and it looks cool.

Of course, the popularity of anime and manga in general probably has a lot to do with it.

Jackhass · Post by **Jackhass** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:37 pm

Manga (or more specifically anime...that's where the popularity is coming from) is popular because it's more complex and features better stories and characters than the lousy Saturday morning cartoons and lame-ass American comics that Americans have been raised on.

I went through a manga/anime loving peroid myself. It was violent! It was sexy! It had serialized storylines you could get into! It was totally unlike the bland shit on TV or the terrible quality of early 90s comic books at the time.

Plus it's easy to draw. It's basically a bunch of cliches and standard expressions that are mixed and matched. Plus you don't really have to know much anatomy or fundamentals to make it look good.

I think a lot of people though, after that initial infatuation with anime/manga then move back to the American style stuff. The japanese stuff introduces them to a world of better looking, better-written animation and comics and once that's introduced they pursue good comics and cartoons wherever they happen to have been made...and since the North American market is far more varied and has a longer and richer history, they inevitably end up moving away from the japanese stuff after a while.

But the Internet is mostly made up of young kids who are still in that "holy shit, this anime stuff is so much better than Scooby Doo! I didn't know this stuff existed!" stage, so anything with anime eyes does well.

Oh, and I should say I still like some Anime/Manga...but my tastes are much more refined now. Before anything in that style or had sexy anime girls I liked...now it's only the top level stuff that still interests me, and that's usually because they're simply good cartoons, nothing to do with the style.

Yeahduff · Post by **Yeahduff** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:38 pm

OBS wrote:
MinekaC. wrote:Well, from my persepective, I draw in the manga style for a few reasons:
1. It is easy for me. Since 5th grade I loved Sailor Moon, and that was primarily what I drew, as such the only style that got any serious attention, to the point where I can draw cutsy anime girls in my sleep.
2. For me, I didn't choose it because it was/is popular, it's just the only thing that in my opinion I can draw well. So I guess you can say I did choose it because Sailor Moon was popular and I love SM, and as a result I'm just being controlled by the masses in that instance. But I personally believe that to be un-true since when I watched SM it was at 8am on USA network, right before the repeats of that TV show Gary Coleman was in. In otherwords: I watched it before it became popular. So yea, SM became popular, but I was on the band wagon for it before it really picked up in the states.
3. I personally believe that whilest all manga shares in evitable similarities with other mangas, they are, in essence can be quite different style wise. Yes, shoujo's tend to stay similar, but varying genres, shoujo, mecha, shounen, they all have their own type of style, and why is this? Because their style developed from reading other manga's. I mean, compare Naoko Takeuchi to Rumiko Takahashi, BIG difference in drawing style. Naoko's is VERY wispy, tends to make everyone look anorexic(sp?) and ephasizes joints and feet/hands alot. Rumiko is more realistic, but where as Naoko is very detailed in her faces, Rumiko makes them sort of a "passing glance" that they're not that important.
So, on my *thinks* fifth strip in, before I got started on the story line aspect of my comic, I made a comment on people who pick up those "how to draw manga" and learn from them need to put the book down, and go out and develope their own style, since anyone can learn from a book, but then it'll all look the same.
Sadly, though even though I developed my style through watching, and ALOT of doodles, it still came out looking like main-stream anime-ish and not the wispy manga that I would've preferred.
I have officially lost my train of thought and can't remember what the hell I was talking about.
Okay, quick closing since my head feels like it's spinning: I grant you there are some out there in the WC world that do manga-ish style because it seems to sell, but really who out there WOULDN'T want their comic to take off? Exactly. But there are also those out there who do their comic in this style because they love the look, they like how for them it's easy to draw since they grew up with it, and they have a story to tell.
And if it makes you feel better my story DOESN'T take place in Japan, it takes place in NYC.
Goddess I KNOW I started out defending my style choice, but I'm just so damn bad at arguements, I guess what I'm saying is some choose that style cause they like those comics, and some choose the more traditional american style because they like those style, it's all a matter of opinion. Now exscuse me I think I'm going to go pass out.
You completely missed the question. It didn't ask why you choose to draw in a manga style, it asked why so many people like manga as a comic style.

and cut it out with the purple font, it's distracting and annoying.

You don't want anyone to know you have a comic, s/he wants to type in purple font. We got room for all kinds here. Relax.

I personally don't understand why this question comes up. Nothing inherently wrong with a style. Yeah, a lot of manga sucks, but a lot of a lot of things suck. Were all derivative of something, but we do our best to make something original out of the things the influence us. Manga authors who don't understand this often get pidgeonholed for failing to elevate past their genre. Happens with fantasy, sci-fi, real life and every other genre too. Whatever. If it's good, it's good. If you don't wanna deal with manga, fine, don't. But people have just as much reason to look at it as another gamer comic.

Kirb · Post by **Kirb** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:03 pm

I always come into these threads having something to say, and then realize that Yeahduff couldn't have already explained my opinion better.

The mind-reading bastard.

Ahaugen · Post by **Ahaugen** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:28 pm

personally, i miss the days when all you needed was random violence ... like having a coyote fall several hundered feet off a mesa into a hole shapped in his likeness and emerges making accordian noises, or having a duck's bill blown six ways from Sunday by a shotgun ... but i'm old fashoned.

Ataraxia · Post by **Ataraxia** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:59 pm

rcmonroe wrote:Uh, ya got me. I don't understand the fascination with anything that's blatantly derivative of something else.

I've often heard North American comic fans complain that all anime/manga looks alike... since moving to Korea, I've heard many Asian comic fans complain that all North American comics/cartoons look alike. I think it's largely a matter of perception. When you're used to a certain style, you can appreciate the differences between artists working in that style. When confronted by a new style, what you notice first is the similarity between the artists. I know you didn't actually say that all manga looks alike, but your quote brought that to mind, so I thought I'd comment on it.

That said, much of the manga-style comics on the web (and amateur manga over here in Korea) does tend to be done in a style that faithfully apes whatever illustrator the author likes without adding anything original to the art. Back when I was going to university, drawing in a manga style meant that you copied Rumiko Takahashi as closely as possible. I don't know who's being copied now, but I agree there's a lot of bland derivative work out there.

Jackhass wrote:I think a lot of people though, after that initial infatuation with anime/manga then move back to the American style stuff. The japanese stuff introduces them to a world of better looking, better-written animation and comics and once that's introduced they pursue good comics and cartoons wherever they happen to have been made...and since the North American market is far more varied and has a longer and richer history, they inevitably end up moving away from the japanese stuff after a while.

I don't think that the Japanese market is less varied than the American market. In terms of the mainstream titles, it seems to me that the Japanese market (or at least the Korean market, which is mostly imported Japanese titles) is far more varied. Whenever I go to a comic shop over here I usually see all kinds of people; when I go to a comic store in North America most of the people are males, geeky, between the ages of 16 and 32.

Most of the popular comics in North America seem to be superhero titles. Those that aren't are usually "dark, edgy" comics of one form or another. In Korea, there's no one dominant genre or mood. Adventure comics are popular, but so are romance, horror, humor, and historical comics. Most of the historical comics seem to be indigenous Korean rather than Japanese imports.

You can point to the independant/underground cartoonists to show a great variety in American comics, but we have independant/underground cartoonists over here too.

The situation is different in webcomics; I read a lot of interesting English language comics on the web that I'd probably never see in print. Two of my current favorites are Tile! on ComicGenesis and Dr. McNinja.

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