Sith vs Redneck

TMLutas · Post by **TMLutas** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:45 pm

shyal_malkes wrote:yes, and I suppose all it takes is a block of cheese to make a realistic looking death star and death star explosion and a whole planet blowing up with minimal (cartoon glowing add ins for the lazers) computer effects.

I suppose it takes a mere block of cheese to have a few puppets look as varied as a fuzzy (origional bantha as seen at the mos eisly cantina entrance) creature to a bald one (yoda) to a huge slimy one (jaba) and have all three look realistic

I suppose there is no imagination whatsoever in the starwars plot either, I mean everything happened like so many other stories up to it's time that you practicaly knew what the characters were going to say right before they were going to say it ("no! I am your father")

I suppose it's so creatisticaly dull that no one has ever bothered to find let alone use any worthwhile Starwars quotes.

so yes I must heartily agree with you Lucas must indeed have the imagination of a block of cheese

and ps, glowing swords in a scifi, we've seen that everywhere in movies predating starwars.

I'm not saying that Lucas is worthless creatively but he certainly didn't make Star Wars as an original story. He was pretty clearly <a href="http://www.jitterbug.com/origins/kurosa ... ">cribbing from Kurosawa</a> and if you haven't seen Kurosawa's work, you're in for a treat. Go rent it and appreciate a new master filmmaker coming into your life.

BrockthePaine · Post by **BrockthePaine** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:52 pm

TMLutas wrote:That assumes that he would understand what dynamite is. Would you recognize an assagai if you saw one?

Assagai are freakin cool! But they don't work well against modern firearms, as Rourke's Drift showed...

And the idea of a weapon using a force-field to create a blade goes back to at least 1951 with Isaac Asimov.

ChronicMisadventures · Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:26 am

shyal_malkes wrote: and ps, glowing swords in a scifi, we've seen that everywhere in movies predating starwars.

Movies, perhaps not, stories, yes...a quick Google and Wikipedia check: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber ... r_the_idea

Expansion on the named titles there can be found near the bottom of: http://www.jitterbug.com/origins/lightsabers.html

Earlies being from 1933 and included a "lightsword"...with the note that the author's wife was hired by Lucas to write the first draft of Empire Strikes Back.
Next we've got 1943 featuring "two warring groups of priests" (Jedi and Sith, anyone?) each carrying "rods of wrath" from which spring a "beam of violet light, which can cut through anything"
And a 1968 Hugo-award-winning book featuring "a blade of light that snaps on and off" and the phrase "He looked more machine than man..."

I'm a Star Wars fan, still have all my old SW toys from the 1980s when I was growing up, but I'm under no illusions that it's a unique work. Honestly, there's few if any purely unique works out there as most/all stories are at least in part based on some sort of traditional framework. On this topic, see also, Joseph Campbell's The Hero With A Thousand Faces. (also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_W ... _Star_Wars )

Shyal_malkes · Post by **Shyal_malkes** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:54 am

either way StarWars has inspired a number of stories I have and has influenced even more. especially at specific scenes where the music just feels right.

on a whole I believe starwars was a breakthrough for it's time. I do not disagree that it seems Lucas has lost a step or two in age but he was cutting edge in my book when he mede the origional three. I didn't see them when they came out but even when I did see them they still were competing well with the technology and movie magic we had at that time. and it pains me when he gets discredited.

especially when he gets discredited for stuff that the fans did (most of the starwars books weren't even written by Lucas including the ones that try describing what a lightsaber is and for someone who isn't a scientist, what else is he supposed to describe it as anyway?)

I think it was the lightsaber that got me into swords and stuff in the first place.

BrockthePaine · Post by **BrockthePaine** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:31 am

For me...

Timothy Zahn ROCKS. Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy is, to me at least, more true to the Star Wars idea than the first three movies. And the X-Wing books are funnier and more enjoyable than the movies are.

LoneWolf23k · Post by **LoneWolf23k** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:56 pm

Zorro wrote:My solution to defeat a Jedi with a Light Saber is to use a shotgun loaded with buckshot and a cylinder choke.

He might deflect a few pellets but not all of them.

That wouldn't work on a Clone Wars cartoon Jedi. In the first season, Obi-Wan actually blocked a whole hail of shrapnel that was fired at him, while in the heat of battle.

RHJunior · Post by **RHJunior** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:17 pm

shyal_malkes wrote:yes, and I suppose all it takes is a block of cheese to make a realistic looking death star and death star explosion and a whole planet blowing up with minimal (cartoon glowing add ins for the lazers) computer effects.

I suppose it takes a mere block of cheese to have a few puppets look as varied as a fuzzy (origional bantha as seen at the mos eisly cantina entrance) creature to a bald one (yoda) to a huge slimy one (jaba) and have all three look realistic

I suppose there is no imagination whatsoever in the starwars plot either, I mean everything happened like so many other stories up to it's time that you practicaly knew what the characters were going to say right before they were going to say it ("no! I am your father")

I suppose it's so creatisticaly dull that no one has ever bothered to find let alone use any worthwhile Starwars quotes.

so yes I must heartily agree with you Lucas must indeed have the imagination of a block of cheese

and ps, glowing swords in a scifi, we've seen that everywhere in movies predating starwars.

1)Everything in Star Wars, Lucas ripped off from someone else. The plot is a rip off of Kurusawa's "The Hidden Fortress." In the original script princess leia is being pursued by the empire because she's transporting a certain rare IMMORTALITY SPICE (DUNE anyone...?) and many other features were Dune ripoffs....http://web.archive.org/web/200206102250 ... ipoff.html

He also pilfered from Lensman and a hodgepodge of 50's era pulp stories.

2)He took this conglomerate mess AND ACTUALLY FOUND WAYS TO MAKE IT STUPIDER. The dialogue was painful ("wretched hive of scum and villainy" is a meme, not an example of good writing. Stop repeating it). The "science" of this sci fi epic was sub-grade-school. (Sounds in space. "swooping" space fighters, and worse.)
http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/starWarsE3.html
http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/starwars1.html
http://theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html

3)He used the most innovative and novelty-potential ideas in this dog's breakfast in the most arbitrary and pointless way possible. Given telekinesis, he uses it for little more than flinging objects around. Presented with functional artificial intelligence, he has humans flying the ships and targeting the weapons, and the superintelligent computers serving drinks. Needing a cargo ship/smuggler, he introduces a spacecraft with barely enough room for the crew. Presented with mystic, superhuman knights, he has them bringing SWORDS to a SHOOTOUT. He's like a child using $1,000 paints to draw stick figures.

Star Wars: the movie for the child in each of us--- who never had a single science class in school.

LoneWolf23k · Post by **LoneWolf23k** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:59 pm

Well, in his defense, Lucas' application of Star Wars technology pretty much follows in the tradition of older Pulp Sci-Fi fiction, which was written before the society-altering possibilities of certain technologies became obvious. Such a setting is technically called "safetech Sci-Fi".

But personally, I find absolutely no excuse for the Midichlorians. Psychic powers coming from micro-bacteria!? LAAAAME!

Earl McClaw · Post by **Earl McClaw** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:06 pm

I seem to recall reading an article some time ago that claimed Lucas wanted to make three trilogies inspired by the old movie theater serials he grew up with. One (Indiana Jones) was classic action/adventure. Another (Star Wars) was "space opera" sci-fi. The third was more of a departure, as fantasy (Willow) never got much of a foothold in Hollywood until the success of Lord of the Rings.

Based on it's pulp/serial inspiration, I think the original three Star Wars movies (episodes IV-VI) did fine. Episodes I-III tried to modernize things a lot, and set things up for IV, which not only gave Lucas a high goal to achive, but also shoved him off the path that may have been the reason for the success of the original(s).

Shyal_malkes · Post by **Shyal_malkes** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:41 pm

fine you've convinced me, he's a horible evil manipulative lazy man who should never have stepped foot in the entertainment business let alone hollywood, ya happy now?!

Rokas · Post by **Rokas** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:03 pm

BrockthePaine wrote:For me...

Timothy Zahn ROCKS. Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy is, to me at least, more true to the Star Wars idea than the first three movies. And the X-Wing books are funnier and more enjoyable than the movies are.

Zahn rocks, yes. And the X-Wing books were good, 'cuz Michael Stackpole wrote a good number of 'em, settin' the tone for the series.

The guy's GOOD.

No offense, RH. But Stackpole can write intrigue as well as anyone I know of, save Frank Herbert.

As for Star Wars in general, lemme make this observation on IV-VI, if you please:

It's good for kids to watch, 'cuz it gives 'em a nice piece about choosing the right path (Good, not Evil), wows 'em with fancy spaceships an shootouts, and has all sorts of funky stuff to keep their attention and spark their imagination.

And that's about all it's good for, nowadays. Sci-Fi in print has been grown-up for years, and Star Wars is falling prey to the same effect that is working on Sci-Fi in other media, such as movies/TV shows.

We've grown beyond Star Wars. Just as the first moving pictures wowed audiences, yet would leave us bored and even offended today, Star Wars has pased it's relevance (and it had some, no matter how small it was) to society.

Though, not entirely... as http://www.impstherelentless.com/ shows, some people are seeing SW in a bit of a different light.

What I think... Leave Star Wars for the kids, let 'em have a bit of fantasy through it, and maybe even enjoy a bit of the spin-offs the same way you'd enjoy a cartoon as an escape.

As for Eps I-III... Well, they show just how overrated Lucas is. Of course, I could've told you that after seeing Labirinth and Howard the Duck, but no one listens to me.

Just my $0.02

BrockthePaine · Post by **BrockthePaine** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:06 pm

Hey, Labyrinth was a cool movie. Don't diss Labyrinth!

Rokas · Post by **Rokas** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:22 pm

Didn't care for it, Brock. :p Sorry, but that's my call.

Though to be fair, most movies from the 1980s make me want to choke. Weekend At Bernie's? Ugh. Top Gun? Once I got old enough to read books about fighters, I realize how shmucky it was. (Also, Tom Cruise sucks.)

To be fair, there were great movies. Ghostbusters is a CLASSIC.

BrockthePaine · Post by **BrockthePaine** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:29 pm

I said that with some humour. Labyrinth is one of those oddball movies that I hate to like. It's just so psychotic...

BrockthePaine · Post by **BrockthePaine** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:52 pm

Rokas wrote:Though, not entirely... as http://www.impstherelentless.com/ shows, some people are seeing SW in a bit of a different light.

Darn you!! I was going to bed, and now I'm sitting up waiting for chapter 1 to download.

Have you ever seen Stormtroopers?

The JAM · Post by **The JAM** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:47 am

Do you think Lucas will still want to try eps VII-IX (Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, Last Command)? Well, those are the titles mentioned in HttE, I don't know if they're the official ones.

ChronicMisadventures · Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:28 am

Earl McClaw wrote:I seem to recall reading an article some time ago that claimed Lucas wanted to make three trilogies inspired by the old movie theater serials he grew up with. One (Indiana Jones) was classic action/adventure. Another (Star Wars) was "space opera" sci-fi. The third was more of a departure, as fantasy (Willow) never got much of a foothold in Hollywood until the success of Lord of the Rings.

Heard similar but with another aspect to it: Lucas got divorced in the early/mid-1980s. Lucas himself admits that as a result of the divorce Lucasfilm was "in difficult financial straights"....way I heard it, and this may be wrong, is that part of the settlement gave his ex- a certain percentage of profit from films he directed for a certain number of years after that. Hence, to deprive the ex- of said profits, the lack of films directed by him in that time period, including the cancelling of the planned Willow sequels.

The JAM wrote:Do you think Lucas will still want to try eps VII-IX (Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, Last Command)? Well, those are the titles mentioned in HttE, I don't know if they're the official ones.

The joke for the past decade+ has been that all the original actors are now old enough to play their characters again if he ever does make the third trilogy

Rokas · Post by **Rokas** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:02 am

BrockthePaine wrote:
Rokas wrote:Though, not entirely... as http://www.impstherelentless.com/ shows, some people are seeing SW in a bit of a different light.
Darn you!! I was going to bed, and now I'm sitting up waiting for chapter 1 to download.

Have you ever seen Stormtroopers?

MUAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!

*Cough* Er, I mean, no, but I've heard of it. I think these are the same guys, in fact, but they wanted to do something a bit more serious with the concept.

It's really QUITE well done for a fan project. Heck, it's got better special effects than some of those movies I mentioned a few posts ago.

And the music is sweet, too.

The only problem is, Chapter 1 came out a year ago, and they're only now getting nearly done with 2.

Gonna be a loooong time to finish it, if they don't quit altogether.

BrockthePaine · Post by **BrockthePaine** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:13 am

Yeah, I poked around a bit - I.M.P.S. is done by the same folks who did "Troopers". I loved the intro with that "Bad Boy" music...

I am of the opinion that, if it weren't for the Empire being ruled by Dark Jedi, they'd totally be cooler than the Rebel Alliance. Star Destroyers ROCK!

Rokas · Post by **Rokas** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:43 am

BrockthePaine wrote:I am of the opinion that, if it weren't for the Empire being ruled by Dark Jedi, they'd totally be cooler than the Rebel Alliance. Star Destroyers ROCK!

Will you stop reading my mind?

Of course, TIE fighters suck. Now, if you put (blank)-Wings ON Imperial Star Destroyers, then you have maximum ownage.

Also, paint the ISDs black, or at least gray. They'll look cooler and more meanacing. Remember, intimidation is part of the second triad of victory.

(Oblique video game reference there. A cookie to whomever recognizes it.)

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