Sith vs Redneck

[J4N1]

When you're in the middle of a lightsaber/blaster duel, switching tactics in mid-swing is kind of unlikely.

And anyway, I went by what the TYPICAL reaction of a jedi or sith is to an object flung at them---

They whack at it with their lightsaber.

No fancy tricks with the force--- No force chokes, no TK forcefields, no long-range kung-fu nerve punches. They just throw loose scenery at each other and do "air jordan" jumps. And whack at things with their lightsabers.

Lucas has all the imagination of a block of cheddar.

gotta agree with most of these points, the Jedi are kinda 1 dimensional when it comes to battle, no footwork, no tricks with the enviroment, no, well, anything, just hit it with a lightsaber, maybe do a fancy flip in the air during a jump but that's it

Jedi are not supposed to be soldiers, i understand that, but considering the things they do outside of combat, one would think that they could come up with better ways to neutralice their opponents.

Dark side/Light side dualism is also rather one dimensional, not as an idea but in how it's shown in the movies books and comics, but that's just my opinion.

[BrockthePaine]

I was expecting the way the dude in light got it at the end, but I didn't expect the surprise!

[Fusion]

I saw that one before! The end always cracks me up!

[Shyal_malkes]

it's just that my family and I have always, always been SW fans. my first dream of science (why I got into science) was to build a SW blaster. I know there have been tons of jokes picked at it and tons of parodies.

it's just that to have to see just one more just kinda made me snap. I'm not deleting my post, that's a cowards retreat. but I don't like being mad at people either.

[Squeaky Bunny]

Luke, I's yo pa!

[Zorro]

My solution to defeat a Jedi with a Light Saber is to use a shotgun loaded with buckshot and a cylinder choke.

He might deflect a few pellets but not all of them.

[Shyal_malkes]

single lead bullet, a lightsaber (if we believe the books) is mostly jsut pure energy (not including the handle) a bullet might melt but it wouldn't deflect and if the aim was good even a melted lead bullet could penetrate the skin and tissue and woud still do a good deal of damage (imho)

[Nick012000]

A (sub)machine gun loaded with cortosis-laced bullets would do the trick against the unarmored Jedi. First bullet turns off the lightsaber, the rest rip him apart. Against Vader, no beans. His armor could stop the bullets.

Blasters pack as big a punch as modern artillery. This is demonstrated by the explosions when they hit trees and scenery. The folks at StarDestroyer.net have calculated this.

[IronFox]

A (sub)machine gun loaded with cortosis-laced bullets would do the trick against the unarmored Jedi. First bullet turns off the lightsaber, the rest rip him apart. Against Vader, no beans. His armor could stop the bullets.

Blasters pack as big a punch as modern artillery. This is demonstrated by the explosions when they hit trees and scenery. The folks at StarDestroyer.net have calculated this.

I'm somewhat skeptical about the figures from stardestroyer.net, particularly this one. Your typical artillery has enough power to turn anything it hits into hash. If blasters pack as much punch as modern artillery, then why weren't there a lot more exploded stormtroopers everywhere? A far more plausible explanation regarding the explosions would be that as the blaster bolts hit trees, they superheat the water in the trees, which explodes them as the water turns into gas. Then again, you could be mistaking blasters for lasers.
Blasters=Handheld, anti-personnel devices, comparable to your modern handguns, the heaviest of which are basically comparable to a heavy machine gun (say, .30 cal)
Lasers=Vehicular mounted weapons, more powerful, comparable to a 30mm round.

[Tbolt]

The lightsaber is kind of weak as an offensive weapon if one thinks about it.

There's a reason why firearms took over from swords. I forget what scifi game came up with the concept, but swords made a comback in boarding actions on spaceships. Neither side wanted to explosively decompress the prize, so either under powered firearms had to be used (which could be absorbed by body armor) or energy blades needed to be deployed. Short energy swords could be wielded within the confines of a ship with enough penetrating power to defeat body armor, but have a lesser risk of rupturing a ship's hull.

Was that the Star Wars RPG? I can't remember, it has been so long since I used that system...

In the open field, a blade is more for show than anything. Realistically, gun beats blade at any range greater than arm's length.

[Earl McClaw]

I forget what scifi game came up with the concept, but swords made a comback in boarding actions on spaceships. Neither side wanted to explosively decompress the prize...

I'm not sure it's what you were consideirng, but Traveller suggested that at one point, when discussing why marines continued to receive sabre training in that era.

[LoneWolf23k]

The lightsaber is kind of weak as an offensive weapon if one thinks about it.

There's a reason why firearms took over from swords. I forget what scifi game came up with the concept, but swords made a comback in boarding actions on spaceships. Neither side wanted to explosively decompress the prize, so either under powered firearms had to be used (which could be absorbed by body armor) or energy blades needed to be deployed. Short energy swords could be wielded within the confines of a ship with enough penetrating power to defeat body armor, but have a lesser risk of rupturing a ship's hull.

Was that the Star Wars RPG? I can't remember, it has been so long since I used that system...

In the open field, a blade is more for show than anything. Realistically, gun beats blade at any range greater than arm's length.

Well, that's why they're usually wielded by the guys with Force Powers; with Force powers and Lightsabers, a Jedi is hard to beat.

And I don't think the Lightsabers are weak, really. As far as we've seen, lightsaber blades vaporize everything they touch (oher lightsaber blades and cortosis weave not withstanding); A "One-hit, One Kill" weapon is pretty impressive.

[Tbolt]

You're right in that from a material destruction viewpoint a light saber is a very potent weapon, and again you're also right in that they are almost worthless without a Jedi behind it.

I'm just saying that in a realistic environment, barring "the force" in a duel that started beyond hand to hand combat range, I'd bet on the guy with the flintlock over the guy with the blade of infinite chopping. (personal skill levels held equal)

The ability to sense and deflect incoming fire allows the Jedi to survive in the open field, and if there is cover, forget it, for all intents and purposes, the Jedi can start right in the middle of the swarm and play lawnmower man! =^^=

But without the force, you'd never be able to deflect a musket ball travelling at 400 fps let alone a laser bolt going at the speed of light (how fast are blasters supposed to be? IIRC they do not travel at light speed, but I could be wrong). That is why I say a light saber is weak. Yes it does have tremendous destructive potential, but without an equally skilled individual behind it, one will never live long enough to get within arm's length of the target.

But, that is what superheroics are about, doing what is outside of the realm of possibility with ease.

[LoneWolf23k]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree. The fact that Lightsabers fell into disuse after the Jedi were killed off proves they weren't that useful for everyone.

[Shyal_malkes]

the only real problem I have with the lightsaber is how they tried describing it's blade as a single beam of light that arcs back into itself.

I doubt a beam of light of any intensity is going to deflect a bullet. as for vaporizing it, well, having a bullet blow up let alone vaporize usually carries enough impact to be dangerous, plus unless the target can move faster then the bullet can, he's got a split second (and I do mean split) to get out of it's way or block it. of course to me, if he does block it all he's managed to do is turn it into a glob of molten bullet which to me really isn't much of an improvement (for the target anyway)

if I ever get to build a lightsaber (a childhood dream) I'm not making it like they descibe in "the Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology" book

[LoneWolf23k]

My theory on Lightsabers is that it's pure plasma energy contained in a magnetic field in the shape of a sword's blade.

[Kerry Skydancer]

Ralph had it right - Lucas has the imagination of a block of cheese. Lightsabres would -work- if you did the tech right.

Picture a magnetic plasma bottle bent from its normal donut shape into a long skinny bulge (the donut hole is in the handle along with the field generators). Fill it with high-density plasma - it'll cut through anything by dissolving the material into more plasma. Magnetically active metal will impede it, and it will bounce from other plasma fields (like other lightsabers).

But no, Lucas can't be bothered to think of how it might work, he just has to open up his mouth and let stupid fall out.



Edit: Heh. I see LoneWolf had the same thoughts I did on this issue. And he snuck his in while I was typing.

[Shyal_malkes]

yes, and I suppose all it takes is a block of cheese to make a realistic looking death star and death star explosion and a whole planet blowing up with minimal (cartoon glowing add ins for the lazers) computer effects.

I suppose it takes a mere block of cheese to have a few puppets look as varied as a fuzzy (origional bantha as seen at the mos eisly cantina entrance) creature to a bald one (yoda) to a huge slimy one (jaba) and have all three look realistic

I suppose there is no imagination whatsoever in the starwars plot either, I mean everything happened like so many other stories up to it's time that you practicaly knew what the characters were going to say right before they were going to say it ("no! I am your father")

I suppose it's so creatisticaly dull that no one has ever bothered to find let alone use any worthwhile Starwars quotes.

so yes I must heartily agree with you Lucas must indeed have the imagination of a block of cheese

and ps, glowing swords in a scifi, we've seen that everywhere in movies predating starwars.

[TMLutas]

Uhm... Not to be a stick-in-the-mud (Or a Hopeless Geek), but if a Sith like Vader can deflect energy attacks with his bare hands and the Force, he could probably do the same with an explosion.

...Or, if he can see the dynamite coming, he can toss it back at his enemy easily enough.

That assumes that he would understand what dynamite is. Would you recognize an assagai if you saw one?

[TMLutas]

My solution to defeat a Jedi with a Light Saber is to use a shotgun loaded with buckshot and a cylinder choke.

He might deflect a few pellets but not all of them.

Or he could just rip a corridor panel out of its brackets and put it between him and the blast. It would kind of depend on what's available and how good a jedi he was.