Beer and Whine

Lee M · Post by **Lee M** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:50 am

Kind of ironic if Rahan gets seriously injured and the only one who can help is his "enemy" Quentyn.

If I were in Quentyn's situation I'd be tempted to string Rahan along for a bit. "Well, y'know, Rahan, I'd like to take you to get healed, despite the fact that you nearly took my head off with a bottle, but I really wouldn't want everyone feeling sorry for me for saving your worthless life..." etc.

But then again, even if Rahan's injuries weren't life-threatening, Quentyn has his position as Questor to consider. Anyway, he wouldn't want to look like a jerk in front of Kessie.

MikeVanPelt · Post by **MikeVanPelt** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:50 am

Sharuuk wrote:
BlasTech wrote:Ow ... looks like he landed on a root >.<
And the arch of his body could very well get his back broken.

I want to see Rahan get his butt kicked....get humiliated, not paralyzed for life.

S'aaruuk

It'd sure give him a reason to feel sorry for himself. "You never had t'do nuttin'" ... Quentyn was a farm kid, for heaven's sake. Whatta maroon.

Basic physics, unless the gravity on this world is higher, a raccoon-sized creature is a lot less likely to get injured from a fall like that than a human would. But he did land flat on his back on that root, and Ralph drew it there for a reason.

If he does end up paralyzed, it would be in character for him to try to claim Quentyn knocked him out of the tree, and that Kestrel is also lying, but that wouldn't work very well -- the soothstone would make short work of that story. (Very handy thing, that.)

Madmoonie · Post by **Madmoonie** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:11 am

Sharuuk wrote:
BlasTech wrote:Ow ... looks like he landed on a root >.<
And the arch of his body could very well get his back broken.

I want to see Rahan get his butt kicked....get humiliated, not paralyzed for life.

S'aaruuk

Oh...dear....um....same here. Oh man, I don't want to see him paralyzed for life either.

NydaLynn · Post by **NydaLynn** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:42 am

Yeah, no fight tonight. I'd say wanderer hit it spot on. Rahan's gonna miss the little twerp and have to establish himself on his own grounds. Poor guy probably does not have a true friend, despite his 'popularity'.

Squeaky Bunny · Post by **Squeaky Bunny** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:18 am

Sharuuk wrote:I think Rahan may end up being the stowaway, will do his damndest to sabotage or maybe even try to get Quentyn killed and try and come back as the "hero".

S'aaruuk

Kind of like what Dr. Smith was trying to do before LIS went kiddie Sci-Fi.

Sableneko · Post by **Sableneko** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:47 am

Well, if Rahan gets injured, even if it isn't permanent, he'll get a shot at seeing just how irritating Quentyn's position is.

It's not like Quenty likes it when people feel sorry for him or think he can't do anything worthwhile. That's one of the convictions that drove him so strongly to become Questor in the first place.

To prove he isn't worthless.

Besides, given the presence of folks like Master Rillcreek, I don't think even a broken back will last more then a few weeks to a month.

MikeVanPelt · Post by **MikeVanPelt** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:48 am

Hm... Another possibility comes to mind...

Rayhan dies. And his dying words are a satanic smart bomb, programmed with Quentyn's GPS coordinates, loaded with a payload straight from the father of lies itself, designed specifically to hit Quentyn with the lie he is most vulnerable to.

You're a cruel, cruel man, Ralph.

Sableneko · Post by **Sableneko** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:53 am

MikeVanPelt wrote:Hm... Another possibility comes to mind...

Rayhan dies. And his dying words are a satanic smart bomb, programmed with Quentyn's GPS coordinates, loaded with a payload straight from the father of lies itself, designed specifically to hit Quentyn with the lie he is most vulnerable to.

You're a cruel, cruel man, Ralph.

"Quentyn...I am your third cousin's brother-in-law's father's sister's former college roommate..."

"...What's that make us?"

"Absolutely nothing. *ded*"

Honestly. He landed on his back, not his head. Though I don't think he'd suffer much from the latter anyway.

Tom Mazanec · Post by **Tom Mazanec** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:55 am

I don't know. I used to think Rahan was just sadistic. Now I actually feel sorry for him. But with their medicine being so good, I doubt that he will be crippled. He will probably just feel more sorry for himself because people are STILL not sympathizing with him. "Hey, you got drunk enough to fall out of a tree, you suffer the consequences!" Remember Quentyn's inability to get a refund from Max because he was drunk at the time.

Kerry Skydancer · Post by **Kerry Skydancer** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:09 pm

He landed flat on his back, he's got about four times the relative material strength of a human, the fall was only about six feet, and he's undoubtedly relaxed from the alcohol. He'll be fine unless he managed to hit a tree root with his neck.

Anthony Lion · Post by **Anthony Lion** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:24 pm

I don't feel sorry for Rahan.

He seems to be thinking that Quentyn has had an easier life than himself.

Sure, Quentyn has failed in a lot of tests, but at least he gave all he had in his attempts. It's not Quentyns fault that he was too short to become a soldier or lacks the Luxcraft skill to join any guild.

I bet that Rahan has never REALLY worked hard at anything, no matter his claims to burnscars. (I'm guessing he got them because he's a clutz or didn't listen to his father)

Sharuuk · Post by **Sharuuk** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:15 pm

Kerry Skydancer wrote:He landed flat on his back, he's got about four times the relative material strength of a human, the fall was only about six feet, and he's undoubtedly relaxed from the alcohol. He'll be fine unless he managed to hit a tree root with his neck.

I was just commeting from the perspective that it looks like his head and legs were arched upwards bowing his back down....and it looks like he hit that root just about mid to upper back...pretty much square on his spine. Even if he doesn't weigh all that much and is proportionally stronger than a human....contact with that raised root concentrates all of the kenetic energy of the fall in one relatively small area. If he had hit flat ground, even in the arched position he's in, the chance of an injury would be reduced to the point of almost nil. He'd have a hard time catching his breath, but the chance of broken bones is nearly zero.

S'aaruuk

RHJunior · Post by **RHJunior** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:33 pm

actually, he landed a bit behind the root.... more on his shoulders than his back.

And remember the square-cubed law....

v2=v1(l2/l1)^3 for volume

a2=a1(l2/l1)^2 for surface area

According to my calculations, assuming rahan is 2.5 feet tall, a human at his scale would weigh about 14 pounds. He's also a sturdy example of their species, having (as intimated) worked in the smelters since he was 5.
He's small, light, very muscular, and struck the ground loose-limbed from a proportionately very low height (Going by his height, maybe 6 to 10 feet.) So he's liable to escape with little more than some bad bruises, maybe a sprain or two, and a nasty headache.

Writing Rahan's dialogue was.... difficult. Having him say WHY he hated Quentyn so much meant digging into things, trying to see things through Rahan's eyes.

What was the perspective?

Rahan is an "Ironmonger's" son.

Now, an "ironmonger" is somewhere between a junkman, tinker, and blacksmith, culturally--- making his living collecting scrap metal, melting it down, and reselling it as ingots... maybe doing metalcraft and repairs as a side issue. Any aspect of this is hard, sweaty, grueling, and somewhat dangerous work.... and not one likely to garner a lot of respect in the upper crust.

Consequently Rahan's dad is most likelyhard-working and hard-nosed.... Rahan's early years were probably filled with hard work and strict upbringing. Not cruel or unfair, but.....Zero slack. Emphasis on hard work, pulling your weight, being "tough," quit whining, be a man.... and a lot of scorn for people who couldn't.

Then along comes this runt... puny, dewy-eyed, can't hold his liquor, can't pull his weight, everything Rahan was taught is contemptible and inferior. He beats him up, the little punk whines and cries.... which in Rahan's world just shows that Quentyn's a weak, whiny crybaby who deserves to get pummeled.

And now the little turd-- who is still weak, still whiny, still puny--- is being honored and feted by everyone, even though he's screwed up colossally over and over again!

And being "suddenly rich" doesn't make it much better. They may have experienced a sudden rush of prosperity due to the metal shortage, but it wasn't like the wealth fell out of the sky on them. It wouldn't have mattered in the least if Rahan's family hadn't already been working hard in the industry and used foresight, established the trade contacts, carefully maintained a large "buffer" stockpile of raw metal, and bought low with an eye towards selling high.

But, demonstrated by how Quentyn first referred to Rahan ("take a bum and make him wealthy ,") they were probably treated like most <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouveau_riche">nouveau riche.... </a> like trailer trash who'd won the lotto.

Rich people get respect. Hard working people get respect. Strong, tough, athletic young men get respect. So how do you react when you're all those things--- and someone who is NONE of those things gets treated with more respect than you?

Mind, none of this whatsoever is an excuse. There's a chasm of difference between an explanation and a justification. Rahan's lack of introspection--- his inability to consider that maybe it's his boorishness that costs him socially, and that taking his bottled anger and pouring it out on someone who had nothing to do with the cause did nothing for him--- is reason enough to condemn him. But it does clarify WHY he has harbored such maliciousness for so long.

BlasTech · Post by **BlasTech** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:27 pm

Hrm, good to hear there's no chance of major injury ... fell out of a tree once when i was smaller, although i was barely a meter and a half off the ground i nearly landed on a garden tap Oo';; So yeah ... kinda spooked me a little with him landing so close to a solid object like the root.

Anywhoo. Wanted to pose a question; Rahan can justify (in his mind at least) viewing another with comtempt because they fail to possess redeeming qualities such as being able to "stick it out like a man" or whatever.

When do you think this sort of thing becomes justified? (If it ever does, and im pretty sure it does at some point for most of us) If you looked at someone and saw who they were and what they did, what would you need to see before it would be okay to think of them as deserving this kind of treatment? Cruelty? Cowardice? Arrogance? Insensitivity? Duplicity?

I know its not possible to easily put it into words a single trait that can define a switiching point, but im wondering if any of you can think of a situation where if you saw him/her do something once you'd go "Hey??", when you saw them do it a second time you'd go "What a git" and when you saw them do it a third you'd say "Oh for the love of- , That person is such a jerk/runt/moron/crap person etc."

Basically where you would start thinking of them as an enemy. (doesnt have to be all out war, but to the point where you don't like seeing them anymore or when you start to demand that they change before you will extend an olive branch.)

EdBecerra · Post by **EdBecerra** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:54 pm

RHJunior wrote:Rich people get respect. Hard working people get respect. Strong, tough, athletic young men get respect. So how do you react when you're all those things--- and someone who is NONE of those things gets treated with more respect than you?

I'm reminded of my Uncle Clifford, who'd drive people INSANE with frustrated rage simply because he was a real-world, real-life Gladstone Gander. He once drove a newly purchased sports car through the wall of a police station - and I do mean through it. The cops rushed outside to see what had happened, only to see him stagger out of the ruined car totally unhurt... as he tossed the keys to one of them, telling the officer to "get it washed and waxed and back to me in the morning."

He crashed a light plane, walked away not only unhurt, he wasn't even bruised. He won card games so regularly, no one who knew him would play with him. He cleaned out a mob-run game, and had the mob appologizing to HIM. And no, he didn't cheat. He had professional magicians, card sharps and insurance frauds going quietly nuts.

DAMN, it was annoying! You work hard, you strive, you scrimp and save and grit your teeth and "be a man", and along comes Uncle Clifford, with money falling out of the sky into his lap. LITERALLY, in one bizzare case.

He made hard work meaningless. It was like going to work and seeing the boss's son promoted over you - only in this case, it was the son of the goddess of luck. Patronage. ARRRGH.

So yeah, I can understand where Rahan's coming from. Doesn't EXCUSE his actions, but they're certainly understandable.

Shyal_malkes · Post by **Shyal_malkes** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:13 pm

it's always interesting when you can see what and how a person thinks. not that it is correct mind, but it is interresting.

and considering what Quentyn has gone through since, well since the beginning of the comic he has had to work pretty hard in a lot of places.

DracoDei · Post by **DracoDei** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:11 am

BlasTech wrote:Basically where you would start thinking of them as an enemy. (doesnt have to be all out war, but to the point where you don't like seeing them anymore or when you start to demand that they change before you will extend an olive branch.)

Protecting yourself, or not encouraging bad behavior could argue for this. On the other side of things are the verses where (Peter?) asks Jesus, something like 'How many times must I forgive my brother who sins against me... 7 times?' (and from what I have heard, probably thinking himself super-rightious because the moral standard of the day said 3 times.) and Jesus replied "Not 7, but 7 times 7." By which he meant 'unlimitedly'.

I would also say that there isn't a single trait that requires shunning a person, but any and all negative attributes, depending on the sum of their 'badness' and external factors such as how you can most show them love, what behavior on your part is most likely to cause them to change, what the moral message you are sending to those around you, the harm you are potentially exposing yourself to, etc etc

Acolyte · Post by **Acolyte** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:14 am

DracoDei wrote:Protecting yourself, or not encouraging bad behavior could argue for this. On the other side of things are the verses where (Peter?) asks Jesus, something like 'How many times must I forgive my brother who sins against me... 7 times?' (and from what I have heard, probably thinking himself super-rightious because the moral standard of the day said 3 times.) and Jesus replied "Not 7, but 7 times 7." By which he meant 'unlimitedly'.

It was "seventy times seven". There are many ways to interpret it, and I don't know which is correct. Here's on: Seventy is ten times seven. Ten is a number of divine perfection; seven is a number of spiritual perfection. The seventy thus corresponds to the divine, and we can take the seven (without the divine factor) as corresponding to the human. So we are being told to forgive completely in the spirit, even as God forgives. As in the Lord's Prayer, "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors." And Christ himself as the God-man forgives in this way. But there are other possible interpretations.

The one thing it certainly does not mean is what Veggie Tales teaches: 490. I think we can assume Jesus was able to perform simple multiplication, and would have simply given that number if that's what he meant.

Tom Mazanec · Post by **Tom Mazanec** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:45 am

Yeah, I can just hear it now..."I've forgiven him 488 times...just twice more and then KAPOW!"

Madmoonie · Post by **Madmoonie** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:47 am

Tom Mazanec wrote:Yeah, I can just hear it now..."I've forgiven him 488 times...just twice more and then KAPOW!"

Actually, my mother often said, "489.....just one more time and you gonna blow it, son."