The Cultural Movement: As Mapped

Anthony Lion · Post by **Anthony Lion** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:57 pm

LoneWolf23k wrote:
Anthony Lion wrote:The ONLY Superhero movie I've enjoyed the last few years was the Mystery Men. (got to love a movie with heroes who accidentally fries the towns biggest hero, and such villains as Casanova Frankenstein)
...What? You mean you didn't like The Incredibles, Batman Begins or the Spider-Man movies?

I've never found the time to see The Incredibles(somehow I missed it when it was on the cinema, and never remember to pick up the DVD. It will happen one day, though)

Batman Begins?
There Is ONLY ONE Batman!
And his name is Adam West!
(Having others play Batman is like having Woody Allen play Quentyn...)

Spiderman?
Oh, yeah, I think there was a Spiderman movie bundled with my PS2.
I wonder what I did with it...

I never saw The Hulk, either, but I think that as I have been a fan of the comic since 1984 I can be excused.

Anyway, get hold of the Mystery Men and you'll realise that anything else is as fun as a wet blanket.
with heroes like:
The Shoveler - who can use his spade better than anyone else,
The Blue rajah - who speaks in an English accent, and throws forks,
The Bowler - Her dead father's skull has been encased in a transparent bowling ball.
A guy who can become invisible only when no one is looking...

I mean, they have the word cannon-fodder all but written over them...
(The film is based upon Burning Carrot Comics.)

Edit:
BTW: I'd love to turn in my Nerd badge, but unfortunately, I lost it into my computer collection, and well...

LoneWolf23k · Post by **LoneWolf23k** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:25 am

Anthony Lion wrote:Batman Begins?
There Is ONLY ONE Batman!
And his name is Adam West!
(Having others play Batman is like having Woody Allen play Quentyn...)

*Shudders* Ok, that's like a whole 'nother level of "that ain't right". Preferring the Adam West version of Batman to any other is like.. ...like..

Like preferring "Batman and Robin" over any other Batman movie.

...Dude, Batman ain't supposed to be "camp". The "camp" era of Batman needs to be forgotten. Batman is supposed to be a dark hero. A creature of the Night. A guy who moves in and out of the shadows and essentially scares the $#!+ out of criminals.

The Batman Begins movie was the first ever Batman movie that ever got it right. Much like how the Bruce Timm Batman Animated series was the first cartoon that ever got it right as well.

I don't hate the Adam West series, but don't you go tell me that's the "right" version of Batman.

Anthony Lion · Post by **Anthony Lion** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:02 am

But...

The Adam West version was Action!

Not todays creepy suspense edition...

Todays version is just... just...

http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20050131.html
http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20050218.html
http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20050311.html
http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20050610.html

See?

Doink · Post by **Doink** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:18 am

LoneWolf23k wrote:...Turn. In. Your. Geek. Badge.

Dude! Geekdom is a lot more diverse than just superhero fandom. Even if a geek doesn't like the superhero genre, he could still be into various other geeky habits such as fantasy, sci-fi, D&D, manga, computers, Magic: the Gathering, webcomics, videogames, movies, furry, and other American comic books that DON'T involve superheroes!

The Adam West Batman should be treated seperately from the angsty Batman, like a parody or something. Make it take up a 'Spaceballs' role or something.

Maxgoof · Post by **Maxgoof** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:20 am

Anthony Lion wrote:Batman Begins?
There Is ONLY ONE Batman!
And his name is Adam West!
(Having others play Batman is like having Woody Allen play Quentyn...)

Oh, PulEEEEZE!

Batman, as consistantly presented in DC Comics, was never this campy, groovy, let's-make=a-mockery-of-ourselves, CARTOON that Adam West made him.

Any of the present live action incarnations of him are far better than that TV Schlock.

And I was alive to see the TV show.

Anthony Lion · Post by **Anthony Lion** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:55 am

The Adam West Batman was entertaining.

The 'new', darker and brooding one makes me wonder if something happened to the intensity and contrast controls of my TV...
The architecture and plots are so 'goth' and well... yawn...

Nick012000 · Post by **Nick012000** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:55 am

Batman's pretty much always been an antihero. Get over it.

EdBecerra · Post by **EdBecerra** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:00 pm

Anthony Lion wrote:The Adam West Batman was entertaining.

The 'new', darker and brooding one makes me wonder if something happened to the intensity and contrast controls of my TV...
The architecture and plots are so 'goth' and well... yawn...

That's sort of the point, Tony.

Hell, originally, Batman killed criminals. He used guns and simply shot them dead.

Of course, that was back in the 1930's, when it was more socially acceptable. We've gotten a good deal more wimpier these days, more's the pity.

Madmoonie · Post by **Madmoonie** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:10 pm

Adam West's Batman was.....cute. Batman is not spposed to be cute. I like the new Batman. They really get behind the persona of the Batman, they explore what made Batman....Batman: Bruce Wayne. Plus the Adam West stories were just so.......moronic.

LoneWolf23k · Post by **LoneWolf23k** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:04 pm

Sorry if I offended you, Tony..

But to me, someone who prefers the 1960s Campy "Bat-tussi" version of Batman over any other is, in my opinion, someone who misses the whole point of who Batman is supposed to be. That show's based on the 1960s "upbeat and family-friendly" revamp of the Caped Crusader that also got us Batwoman and the original Batgirl (not Babs Gordon), Batman having adventures in space, the shinanigans of Bat-Mite, and other really silly elements.

Batman was the original "Grim Crusader of the Night". He's the guy who makes criminals soil themselves at the sight of him. He's the guy who was so traumatized by his parents' death, he obsesses over it to the point of performing vigilante activity to try and keep anyone else's parents from dying. And, to some extent, he's the guy who's just on that thin line seperating sanity from insanity.

Now, have some modern stories taken grim aspect too far? Yes, yes, I admit that they have. Turning Batman into a completly paranoid sociopath is a bit too far. But I think the animated series version of Batman had the right, balanced amount of heroic niceness and slightly paranoid grimness to make him rough, but likable.

Oh, and if you're going to use Shortpacked to make fun of Modern Batman, I can use Shortpacked to defend Batman Begins:
http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20050620.html

Madmoonie · Post by **Madmoonie** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:18 pm

Righto, Lonewolf. Batman whole shtick is that his main weapon is fear itself. Neat gadets and cool moves aside, he main weapon is fear, to scare the ciminals beofre he even gets there.

Anthony Lion · Post by **Anthony Lion** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:03 pm

The problem is that he has taken his sthick and gone too far.
He's crazier than half the inmates at Arkham put together.
He's waaay past clogdancing and into disco...

Also, and this REALLY screws up the modern edition, he's darker, more brooding and well... more 'Batman' in the Batman Begins movie than all the rest. There's no natural progression!
(from what little I've seen of trailers, at least)

Is adam West's Batman without flaws?
No, but at least no one gets angry at me when I laugh in the middle of an episode...

Oh, and the REAL 'crusader of the night' was Will Eisner's The Shadow.
Batman was just a guy in a silly costume, but the Shadow, now HE knew how to use terror as a weapon.(In addition to guns, of course)

Madmoonie · Post by **Madmoonie** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:33 pm

Anthony Lion wrote:The problem is that he has taken his sthick and gone too far.
He's crazier than half the inmates at Arkham put together.
He's waaay past clogdancing and into disco...

Also, and this REALLY screws up the modern edition, he's darker, more brooding and well... more 'Batman' in the Batman Begins movie than all the rest. There's no natural progression!
(from what little I've seen of trailers, at least)

Is adam West's Batman without flaws?
No, but at least no one gets angry at me when I laugh in the middle of an episode...

Oh, and the REAL 'crusader of the night' was Will Eisner's The Shadow.
Batman was just a guy in a silly costume, but the Shadow, now HE knew how to use terror as a weapon.(In addition to guns, of course)

Actually I am pretty the guns are a modern addition.

LoneWolf23k · Post by **LoneWolf23k** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:28 pm

Ok, I give up. Go ahead and adore your "West-man", Tony. I'll stick to the real Batman, thank you very much.

Doink · Post by **Doink** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:42 pm

LoneWolf23k wrote:Ok, I give up. Go ahead and adore your "West-man", Tony. I'll stick to the real Batman, thank you very much.

Meh. I could take or leave both. I prefer the Adam West on Family Guy.

RHJunior · Post by **RHJunior** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:15 pm

trust me. The Batman Begins movie got it RIGHT.

It got everything right. From exploring how a grieving orphan went from miserable self-destruction and suicidal vengeance to a powerful symbol of justice and the dread consequence of evil, to explaining how he became the fighting machine he is, even to coming up with a sane and believable explanation of HOW he got "all those wonderful toys." They even got the BATMOBILE right--- an actual, functional vehicle rather than some ridiculous rocket-on-wheels or jet-engined lowrider that would have bottomed out on the first pothole. They got the costume right. Neither day-glo blue and grey spandex nor (God help me) nipplized rubber-- but a battlesuit; one that moved with him and (shock and awe!) let him turn his head.
They got the right actor for the job too. Bruce wayne/batman wasn't some wooden mask. He was fully fleshed out. He hoped. he feared. he grieved. he RAGED. He could go from a smooth, silent ninja to a blazing avenger on a dime.
Best scene in the movie was when he caught a cop on the take and interrogated him. Cop was walking through a back alley after picking up some graft, batman snags him with a grappling hook and yanks him into the air, all the way to the roof, upside down. He starts demanding info. the crooked cop starts squealing "You can't go to the cops with this--?"
Batman looks like he's about to take a bite out of the guy's FACE. "DO I LOOK LIKE A COP TO YOU??"--- and lets him drop, all the way to within a foot of the pavement, then reels him back in and shakes him down again.

I was like "Now THAT'S the batman I'd expect!" ...Someone DRIVEN by his rage at corruption and injustice.

This movie will kick. your. A$$.

LoneWolf23k · Post by **LoneWolf23k** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:52 pm

Thank you, Ralph. You've restored some of my faith in Humanity right there. I know we don't always see eye to eye, but here, you've covered all the points I felt absolutly rocked about the Batman Begins movie.

Batman.. Dark and driven, and absolutely terrifying to criminals.. ...But notice how that kid wasn't afraid of him, and how he actually acted all nice and gave the kid a 'souvenir' to show his friends? Batman isn't frightening to the Innocent. I liked that touch.

The Tumbler is the best darned Batmobile ever. The ultimate triumph of Function over Form. Keep the bat-winged dragster; I'll take the car that's powerful enough to punch through walls, agile enough to drive along rooftops, fast enough to outrace police cars and stealthy enough to disappear in the night.
The Tumbler ain't a car.. It's a Panther on Wheels.

And Michael Caine as Alfred Pennyworth is, I believe, one of the most brilliant acts of casting I've seen since the whole cast of Lord of the Rings. Caine manages to deliver not only the cool, british snark that one's come to expect from Batman's stoic Gentleman's Gentleman, but also shows a strongly paternal warmth that makes sense when you realize that for years after the shooting, Alfred was the closest Bruce came to family.

My favorite scene was the one at the dockside where Batman takes out the thugs one by one.. It struck me because I realized Nolan filmed it not as an action scene... But as a horror scene. All throughout that scene, we focus on the thugs as they get taken out, and we barelye see the Batman as he flits around from shadow to shadow, killing the lights as he goes. Here, we get to see him as the criminals see him.. ...As a thing of absolute terror.

Although the rooftop interrogation scene comes a close second. But Ralph, you forgot the best line in that scene..
Flass: I never knew! I swear to God!
Batman: Swear to me!

Madmoonie · Post by **Madmoonie** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:47 pm

Frankly, what sealed it for was the nipple-less and no George Clooney. And Micheal Caine ROCKED the house. And Liam Neeson was pretty good as the weirdly pronouced Ra's Al-Ghul.

GrayTiger · Post by **GrayTiger** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:33 pm

Don't forget Gary Oldman's portrayal of Jim Gordon.

StrangeWulf13 · Post by **StrangeWulf13** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:20 pm

What I liked about Batman Begins:

Darn near everything. The writing, the action, the toys, the Battank, and the villians... though Scarecrow was missing his hat.

What I hated about Batman Begins:

They snuck in the anti-gun theme again. I hated that in the comics, and every other rendition of him. Of course, one could almost rationalize it here... 'cause Bruce had a gun but his intentions were wrong... vengence, not justice. Still, "another coward with a gun" bothered me, and always will.

What was weird about Batman Begins:

Liam Neeson. To date, this guy has played Batman's foe, a murdered Jedi... and Aslan, King of Narnia and all the world.

Weird, huh?

Best quote:

"Does it come in black?"