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SergeXII wrote:...being a game related web comic, i think its a given that I read these guys... but this thread doesn't bother me you know? I'm just kinda confused I guess you know? Complaints brought up are reasonable you know?
meh, I bet this can be done to any comic efficiently, ya?
reGC wollef a rof eseht fo eno od ton yhw?
P.s. spot the FF refferences to get my respect.
I think that video game comics are cool and all, but can get really worn out if used too much. VGCats is the only comic like that that isn't annoying yet. Even PA gets a bit annoying (though is still funnier than CAD). But to back it up by the audience bit that it's for "hatdcore gamers" isn't working for me some how. Not to be mean, but if anything, just made it seem worse, video games are video games... not an expressive artform... that is unless you design them for real. And also saying "you know?" at the end of every sentence gets really old and makes me not listen to you. sorry Serge.
He was trying to reference two annoying characters from FF8 and FFX respectively in a misguided attempt at wit, and then begged people to beg him for respect. So yeah, makes it hard to want to read the argument in the first place. Sorry for being cruel about it, but it was particularly annoying.
The problem with the argument is that there are some comics that are of such poor quality that making fun of them is impossible since they're already parodies of themselves. It requires a special kind of poor quality to really make anything mockable. Otherwise it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
Your enthusiasm must not be for games, but for Ethan. Then, somehow, it might be funny every time he throws a temper tantrum when he can't get his video games.
Sortelli wrote:I'll be honest, I'm certain that if Buckley were a regular on the forums and we knew him personally and enjoyed his company we wouldn't be so harsh on CAD.
I kinda doubt that, myself. I've seen some of his antics on other forums . . . he comes off as kind of a dick. To put it mildly.
Existence is a series of catastrophes through which everything barely but continually survives.
One should keep in mind that, ripping on webcomics on a webcomic forum is fair game.
I'm only insulted when someone who produces free content, tries to pass off shoddy content as "premium" content. This is one of the reasons I kinda get annoyed at "wallpaper" donations and such. You can't seriously expect people to pay for something that they have no idea what it looks like.
It's like going to a grocery store and told only being allowed to sit at the tills while stuff you pay in advance and then some floor jockey brings your stuff, banging into everything on the way.
Hence, I object to paying for content that isn't better than what is already online. I do, and would pay for stuff on DVD given I know what I'm getting before hand through a lower quality version online.
Books are hit and miss. I've to date only bought about 3 books from 'popular' webcomics. I'd probably buy more, but I'm not exactly interested in reading on paper anything I've already read online. The print editions have additional content that was never online.
CAD, PA, MT, PvP etc all have various premium content or merchandise you can buy. I don't buy t-shirts, I think anyone who buys t-shirts just to support their favorite (site|comic|artist|etc), has their heart in the right place, but unfortunately, the cost to produce and ship low quality shirts (cafepress and the line) is absurd. It would make more sense to me for more specialized premium merchandise be made that's of high quality and the fan won't already have 500 of. I'm talking about stuff that actually appears in the comic and can be made or shipped.
It annoys me that anyone can make a t-shirt with anything on it, declare it their official t-shirt, and then change the shirt in 2 months in order get all the fans to buy the new one, repeat.
This is almost a "profit curve" to free content.
In the beginning you make no money, or lose a little.
When you get your first 1000 fans, you either end up in the poor house if you are self-hosting or get booted off whatever hosting you currently have. (Cause 1000 people visiting once a day over 30 days is 30000 full page cycles or about 9GB of bandwidth, or roughly the amount that you can get away with hosting on your home DSL line or cheap hosting setup)
When you hit 10000 fans, you either need to come up with advertisements or merchandise to cover your costs. If you already have a job, you might have to quit it to dedicate more time to managing your webcomic/business.
At 100000 fans, you better be making money, or you are going to wind up bankrupt.
If you aren't making lots of money at this point, you suck at entrapraneurism and need someone to take over.
I know PA and MT live off their comics, I'm not too certain of who else. What I -do- know is that the subscription model is mutually exclusive of advertisement based models. Doing both tends to piss off people. This is why I don't understand why print magazines still exist. There are almost 60% ads in them and yet people still buy them. Books, which cost about the same have no ads, and no pictures.
What I find is that people ultimately rip on more successful people, no matter what.
Nerds and geeks rip on Bill Gates, Webcomic nerds and geeks rip on MT and CAD.
I actually find a lot of stuff in common with BillGates and FredGallagher, wether intentional or unintentional, they both did the exact same thing. Bill took Dos and Licensed it to IBM, Fred took MT and licensed it to several comic companies at some point in time.
The lesson learned here boys and girls is that you -never- sell your stake in something.
Kisai wrote:
I'm only insulted when someone who produces free content, tries to pass off shoddy content as "premium" content. This is one of the reasons I kinda get annoyed at "wallpaper" donations and such. You can't seriously expect people to pay for something that they have no idea what it looks like.
I totally agree. I don't feel like paying money for something that I'm going to put on my desktop and then cover up with all my programs when I'm actually using my computer is a good trade. Especially when there are so many images out there that are free.
Kisai wrote:
This is why I don't understand why print magazines still exist. There are almost 60% ads in them and yet people still buy them. Books, which cost about the same have no ads, and no pictures.
It depends on the magazine. Some magazines are like books, and are worth saving to have around. e.g. Alpinist. Others may have ads but the content really makes it worth it due to new material every month that actually expands your mind, like Outside or National Geographic. I got an Outside magazine 3-year subscription for $36 and it was some of the best money that I ever spent, I've gotten so much enjoyment out of it. I planned a spring break trip off one of their articles, I've learned more than I ever would have learned from watching CNN about southeast Asia and Afghanistan, and I've gotten solid understandable coverage of stuff like Lance Armstrong's drugging accusations - without having to buy a $20 book on it.
Sortelli wrote:And some magazines have pictures of ladies in their underwear, hurr hurr hu-- waaaait. I can get that for free online too. DAMMIT.
what about pictures of laides in YOUR underwear?
-D. M. Jeftinija Pharm.D., Ph.D. -- Yes, I've got two doctorates and I'm arrogant about it, what have *you* done with *your* life?
"People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do." "yeah.. but we won't care."
"Legostar's on the first page of the guide. His opinion is worth more than both of yours."--Yeahduff
Kisai wrote:
This is why I don't understand why print magazines still exist. There are almost 60% ads in them and yet people still buy them. Books, which cost about the same have no ads, and no pictures.
It depends on the magazine. Some magazines are like books, and are worth saving to have around. e.g. Alpinist. Others may have ads but the content really makes it worth it due to new material every month that actually expands your mind, like Outside or National Geographic. I got an Outside magazine 3-year subscription for $36 and it was some of the best money that I ever spent, I've gotten so much enjoyment out of it. I planned a spring break trip off one of their articles, I've learned more than I ever would have learned from watching CNN about southeast Asia and Afghanistan, and I've gotten solid understandable coverage of stuff like Lance Armstrong's drugging accusations - without having to buy a $20 book on it.
not to mention there are magazines where one mostly gets them for the ads. Fashion magazines (vogue, Details, esquire, Cosmo, etc) usually have gorgeous photos in thier advertisements. Skateboard magazines are another good example.
<KittyKatBlack> You look deranged. But I mean that in the nicest way possible. ^_^;
If it weren't for Runner's World and Bicylcing magazine, I probably wouldn't have lost 130 lbs. I learned a lot about nutrition and methods of excercise that are totally foreign to the general public. Print still ahs relevance.
Congrats on the FF8 and FFX thing, but no one noticed the FF1 refference.
Anyway, I seriously wasnt being passive aggresive back there, it was a serious sugjestion... and I also wasnt reffering to myself or anything either. In fact, mine isnt popular enough to be funy.
phactorri wrote:
not to mention there are magazines where one mostly gets them for the ads. Fashion magazines (vogue, Details, esquire, Cosmo, etc) usually have gorgeous photos in thier advertisements. Skateboard magazines are another good example.
People buy magazines for the ads? *is shocked*, the point I was making was that each page is 60% covered by ads in addition to full page ads. Thus why would you want to PAY for something that is mostly advertisements. I find websites designed this way are worse, there is just so much intteruption to the flow of text that the it's annoying.
The comic industry is a dog-eat-dog world.
I don't think we honestly have the right to criticize other comics for doing what they need to in order to ensure both the survival of the artist and the comic.
I'll explain it with Team America terms.
Dicks make it in the world because they f**k everything that moves, both pussies and assholes. If you sit around being a pussy then you'll never f**k anything and being an asshole is just as bad because both are just going to end up getting f**ked. All people indescriminately fall into those three categories. Those that f**k, those that f**k too much, and those that don't do any f**king at all.
I mean, look at Kurtzy-boy. He's a dick and an asshole, and he f**ked Bondia. And he's extremely successful because of the fact he's a dick.
Mean people succeed, and the lesson in this is f**k or be f**ked.
I think the lesson is that if you not only put out a shoddy product but also act like a total self-posturing douchebag about it, you shouldn't be surprised when people make fun of you.
I buy fashion magazines for the ads. I think they make great female reference photos sometimes. I can only do so much with a wooden dummy. Plus, if I like something that someone is wearing in the fashion magazine, I can snatch it for a character.
cjburgandy wrote:I buy fashion magazines for the ads. I think they make great female reference photos sometimes. I can only do so much with a wooden dummy. Plus, if I like something that someone is wearing in the fashion magazine, I can snatch it for a character.
Man it is so hard finding male references though. I ended up buying this magazine called "Exercise for men only!" because it actually had some full body, mostly unclothed guys in it in positions that weren't just lounging around or whatever. And still it's not that great. I feel like I need to get "Pumping Iron" and just pause at appropriate moments.
