Marksmanship 101

[Doink]

Recently I've become curious about guns. I'm not entirely sure why. Pretty much all of what I know about guns I got from playing Half-Life, and I'm pretty sure most of that is wrong.

I'm pretty sure that this forum wouldn't mind talking about this sort of thing here, and my question is this: Where would you recommend I learn more about guns? Keep in mind that I'm not actually planning on using guns, or joining the NRA, for quite some time, if at all.

[StrangeWulf13]

*places a sign on Sharuuk's back that says: "Firearms Expert"*

There. Now you know where to look.

[Madmoonie]

There are plenty firearm safety courses you can go to. They do not require any sort of membership of any sort. Although you may need to be 21.

[Sehvekah]

http://www.thefiringline.com/

http://www.combatcarry.com/

I've been lurking at those two forums for a while now as I'm in a simmilar boat as you(though it's more when than if) and they're pretty informative and friendly(especially at Combat Carry), though I'd defenately advise lurking and using the search feature before posting(not that you'll get chewed out, it's just that, even as a lurker, seeing the same questions come up over and over again can be a bit tiring{on that note, please, for the love of god, don't make any "9mm vs. .45ACP" posts. It's... just... Don't, please don't}).

[Lwj2]

[snipped]
I'm pretty sure that this forum wouldn't mind talking about this sort of thing here, and my question is this: Where would you recommend I learn more about guns? Keep in mind that I'm not actually planning on using guns, or joining the NRA, for quite some time, if at all.

Check with your state's Game and Fish folks about attending a hunter safety course. The one here in Virginia covers basic firearms safety and woodsmanship.

You might also want to ask your local sheriff or police dept about a firearms safety course.

If there's a local range in your area, that's a good place to start.

[Lou Leghorn]

If you're curious about the laws or news concerning guns in your or any other state, you might want to check http://www.packing.org/.

[UncleMonty]

A gun is a device which is designed to make a hole in something too far away to reach with a hand drill... It is also a great deal more difficult to master than Hollywood's writers might suggest.

To learn about the laws and traditions of gun use, go to the places already mentioned by others here. To learn about the physical reality, start with an air-gun firing pellets or B-B's at a range of about 15 feet, or about 5 meters.

Make certain there is adequate material behind the target to stop any wild shots.

A hillside works nicely. Not a rocky one, however. Dirt is better. Soft, deep dirt.
It's best if you have understanding neighbors thereabouts.

[Kitwulfen]

Let's see, places I visit. The big one would have to be AR15.com. Packing.org and NRAILA.org are very good resources for determing the legallity of various firearms in your state.

If you're looking to get into firearms, I recommend picking up a rifle in .22 Long Rifle. The standard and foremost among these is the Ruger 10/22. A Ruger 10/22 can often be had for less than 200 USD, and ammo is just as cheap (think 5000 rounds for 150 USD). They are highly customizable and a good choice for a beginner. I recommend you check out Rimfire Central for more information on the 10/22 and other firearms in .22 LR.

There's some basic firearm rules that you should be able to repeat in your sleep. There is no excuse for not knowing and practicing these.

1. Always assume that any firearm is loaded and ready to fire, and treat it as such.
2. Always point the firearm in a safe direction. Never point it at anything you don't intend to destroy.
3. Always keep your finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard until you are ready to fire.
4. Always be certain of your target and your backstop.

Yes, a lot of what you'll see and hear in the media is lies. The proliferation of fully automatic weapons is probably the biggest one of them. A weapon capable of fully automatic or burst fire will run you 10,000 USD or more; far beyond the means of some street thug (the reason behind this being that it's been illegal to produce fully automatic or burst fire weapons for civilians for several years, so anything that's out there right now is all there is).

Joining the NRA is not a requirement of owning a firearm. However, if you wish to continue owning firearms, you may wish to join the NRA. While they may not always go about things in the best of ways, they are a staunch defender of Second Ammendment rights and probably the biggest one out there.

For some self-education on firearm terms and history, you may wish to check out Wikipedia. The information there is generally close enough to accurate for government work.

ETA: And in terms of the .45 vs 9mm debate; there is no need for a debate. The US Military used the M1911/M1911A1 (the original .45 ACP) for about 60 years. They switch because their .380's weren't powerful enough to stop drug-crazed Phillipos. Then they switched to the Beretta M9 in 9mm. Now they're switching back to the .45 because the 9mm isn't powerful enough to stop religious zealots.

[Sharuuk]

*places a sign on Sharuuk's back that says: "Firearms Expert"*

There. Now you know where to look.

*Pulls off sign grimacing slightly as the duct tape yanks out a sizable tuft of back fur*

Thanks for the accolades Wulf.....I appreciate you confidence if not your advertising methods!

Doink,

I've been a certified NRA firearms safety instructor for some 35 years and an armed self-defense instructor for about 20. I was a licensed dealer, ammunition manufacturer and gunsmith for 15+years until Clinton put me out of business. I'm currently working as an armed chauffeur and occasional personal protection specialist (body guard) and am well versed in a wide variety of weaponry, its care and deployment. That being said, I guess that does make me at least one of the resident firearms experts here.

I will be happy to answer any questions you may have, and there is NO SUCH THING AS A STUPID QUESTION. If you don't know, ask, I do not laugh at an honest search for information/education. If as you say most of your knowledge comes from "Half-Life" that too is alright because quite a bit is based on fact and factual firearms that are readily available to the public.

You've already been given several good sites to look up.....allow me to add this one http://www.nra.org Browse the site and get a feel of the organization. While I may not agree with all of their stated goals and some positions, they are one of the most powerful and feared (by liberal gun grabbers) lobbys in DC. And they are also the best defenders of the 2nd amendment and liberty I can think of.

*steps off soapbox with slightly perplexed look*

"Why does a 9 1/2 foot tall alien wolf need to stand on a soapbox???"

Seriously, I'll be happy to answer any question, and I have no doubt that others here will too. Personally, I'm thrilled whenever ANYone developes an interest in firearms and I'm always glad to welcome them. MOF, I'm taking a couple of friends to the range next week and the lady will shoot her first gun....and she's looking forward to it. There is very little that gives me more pleasure than introducing someone new to shooting.

Ask away my friend..

S'aaruuk

[JakeWasHere]

Shooting your first gun can be an enthralling experience.

I haven't used one since I was target-shooting with .22 rifles in Boy Scouts - and that was a good twelve years ago. But then three months ago I decided, just on a lark, to go into the Scottsdale Gun Club and find out how handguns worked - I am now a member.

Target shooting may become my favorite sport - and it's one of the few sports that has application in real life. You rarely hear stories about someone foiling a mugging attempt with a nine-iron to the robber's groin.

[Madmoonie]

You rarely hear stories about someone foiling a mugging attempt with a nine-iron to the robber's groin.

Would be intersting though.

[Bigdude]

Shooting well isn't at all what most people think.

You have to have a sense of "inner calm" and the ability to control your own body before you can control the gun. Most beginners are told to start out with something with practically no recoil so you can get the basics of sight picture and trigger control down without dealing with recoil.

Shooting properly doesn't leave you "amped up" or excited. A genuine shooter doesn't act like a meth tweaker or something. The best competitive shooters can shut down their own heartbeat for a couple of beat cycles so the pulsing of their blood through their bodies doesn't throw off their aim. I'm nowhere near THAT point, but it is achieveable and it shows the direction people are going. This applies even to those shooting sports (or those mastering defensive shooting) who shoot fast strings.

--------

Hang out on http://www.thehighroad.org / http://www.thefiringline.com or the like and you'll see a high percentage of either Libertarians, small-L libertarians (who aren't members of the Libertarian Party but who follow their core beliefs) and a smattering of people from the related Objectivist and Anarcho-Capitalist philosophies. The core beliefs in common:

* The only crime is to initiate force against another person.

* No person or group of persons has the right to initiate force, and a Libertarian will neither do so themselves or hire somebody else to do it for them.

* "Force" is defined as assault, murder, rape, robbery, theft, fraud and similar.

* Contract law violations are not necessarily "force" but should be enforced via civil (rather than criminal) court, private or public. (However those courts should have the ability to determine if deliberate fraud is involved which would get kicked over to criminal court.)

Libertarians and related philosphies don't believe in gun control. They also don't believe in criminalizing drugs, consensual adult sex of any sort (including for hire) and are otherwise "pro liberty" in every respect.

-----------

If you want to REALLY understand the American "gun culture" both politically and on a practical level, go find a book titled "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross. It's...rather serious in places.

[TMLutas]

*steps off soapbox with slightly perplexed look*

"Why does a 9 1/2 foot tall alien wolf need to stand on a soapbox???"

I just couldn't resist.

"Why does a 9 1/2 foot tall alien wolf need to stand on a soapbox???"

Why it would be to be seen above the rest of the 9 1/2 foot tall alien wolves. Why else?

[Sharuuk]

*steps off soapbox with slightly perplexed look*

"Why does a 9 1/2 foot tall alien wolf need to stand on a soapbox???"

I just couldn't resist.

"Why does a 9 1/2 foot tall alien wolf need to stand on a soapbox???"

Why it would be to be seen above the rest of the 9 1/2 foot tall alien wolves. Why else?

That would be true if there were others like me TML... ...fact is, I'm a mutant, a bi-product of a long ago war, a freak, even on my own homeworld. The soapbox comment was meant rhetorically and tongue-in-cheek because to my knowledge I'm the tallest critter in this little conclave.....been hauntin' these 3 particular forums for about 2 years now.

S'aaruuk

[Squeaky Bunny]

You rarely hear stories about someone foiling a mugging attempt with a nine-iron to the robber's groin.

Would be intersting though.

I don't think that is what they mean by hitting a ball into the rough.

[Kerry Skydancer]

*steps off soapbox with slightly perplexed look*

"Why does a 9 1/2 foot tall alien wolf need to stand on a soapbox???"

I just couldn't resist.

"Why does a 9 1/2 foot tall alien wolf need to stand on a soapbox???"

Why it would be to be seen above the rest of the 9 1/2 foot tall alien wolves. Why else?

That would be true if there were others like me TML... ...fact is, I'm a mutant, a bi-product of a long ago war, a freak, even on my own homeworld. The soapbox comment was meant rhetorically and tongue-in-cheek because to my knowledge I'm the tallest critter in this little conclave.....been hauntin' these 3 particular forums for about 2 years now.

S'aaruuk

Well, you may be the tallest, but I'm usually looking over your shoulder...

http://utlt.comicgenesis.com/d/20060114.html

[StrangeWulf13]

*places a sign on Sharuuk's back that says: "Firearms Expert"*

There. Now you know where to look.

*Pulls off sign grimacing slightly as the duct tape yanks out a sizable tuft of back fur*

Thanks for the accolades Wulf.....I appreciate you confidence if not your advertising methods!

Heh. Sorry, but when Doink posted this thread, I couldn't resist. You know me and my mischievious streak.

btw, there's an easier way to get duct tape off... just get the sticky side wet and it's practically useless... erf... I do hope that grows back...

*steps off soapbox with slightly perplexed look*

"Why does a 9 1/2 foot tall alien wolf need to stand on a soapbox???"

To find his car at the parking lot. *rimshot*

[Sharuuk]

Shooting well isn't at all what most people think.

You have to have a sense of "inner calm" and the ability to control your own body before you can control the gun. Most beginners are told to start out with something with practically no recoil so you can get the basics of sight picture and trigger control down without dealing with recoil.

Shooting properly doesn't leave you "amped up" or excited. A genuine shooter doesn't act like a meth tweaker or something. The best competitive shooters can shut down their own heartbeat for a couple of beat cycles so the pulsing of their blood through their bodies doesn't throw off their aim. I'm nowhere near THAT point, but it is achieveable and it shows the direction people are going. This applies even to those shooting sports (or those mastering defensive shooting) who shoot fast strings.

Excelent point BD....MOF, I sometimes leave folks scratching their heads whenever I refer to spending "a quiet, relaxing day at the gun range". My "quiet" reference is to the mentall quiet I experience when shooting.....even in defensive/combat simulations. The most relaxing shooting I do is bench rest loooooong range handgunning. I find this particular dicipline to be one of the most mentally relaxing as I'm totally focused on the target and everything else is forgotten for the time being.

Doink......if you go to most any local gun range, indoor or outdoor, I guarentee that you'll find some of the nicest, most helpful and enthusiastic people there that will be more than happy to not only answer any question you might have, but will more than likely invite you to try out their guns. Not the knuckle dragging troglodites or steely eyed James Bond wannabes that the "Brady Bunch", Chuck Schumer, Diane Feinstein et al try and portray us as. As posted earlier, you'll most likely want to first try something small like a .22 or .38 that has low recoil just to get the feel of what it's like to fire a handgun.

If you want to REALLY understand the American "gun culture" both politically and on a practical level, go find a book titled "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross. It's...rather serious in places.

EXCELLENT BOOK!!!!! I have it and it's VERY informative and more than a little unsettleing

S'aaruuk

[Sharuuk]

Well, you may be the tallest, but I'm usually looking over your shoulder...

http://utlt.comicgenesis.com/d/20060114.html

Hovering doesn't count.... (and neither does hanging from the rafters)

S'aaruuk

[Kitwulfen]

An excellent resource you may want to make use of is the Box of the Truth.