Oh, the irony...

Nick012000 · Post by **Nick012000** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:31 pm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12159118/

The really funny thing is that he's a high up in the PR division.

And pedophiles are evil.

StrangeWulf13 · Post by **StrangeWulf13** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:00 pm

This seems a bit like a troll post. If you're looking for a fight, you've come to the right place...

*puts on asbestos suit and stands to the side* I'll just be over here if you need me.

TGIF · Post by **TGIF** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:27 pm

StrangeWulf13 wrote:This seems a bit like a troll post. If you're looking for a fight, you've come to the right place...

*puts on asbestos suit and stands to the side* I'll just be over here if you need me.

Why bother? There are, regretfully, a percentage of sick people in any group.

What is important isn't who he works for, but what they did once they found out about the charges he is facing.

TGIF

Dalak Lutra · Post by **Dalak Lutra** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:30 pm

It really is amazing what kind of people we get in our government who are "trying to help us and make our lives more easy". We truely do live in a corrupt decrepid world. 's Why I plan to get off this planet as soon as I can. Have a better chance out in deep space at survival than I do here. Just got to wait a while and earn quite the large sum of money untill that time, and I'm willing to wait that while and work those hours(my Years are young, and I've got all the time I need and more to begin moi 'traverse', if you will).
Child's Dream or truthful possibility?o.O ... Don't care, but its all I need to keep me movin~(does a little jig).

Madmoonie · Post by **Madmoonie** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:36 pm

StrangeWulf13 wrote:This seems a bit like a troll post. If you're looking for a fight, you've come to the right place...

*puts on asbestos suit and stands to the side* I'll just be over here if you need me.

Yeah...gonna have to agree with you on that score.....(dons GRUNT Armor and sits next to Wulf)

Lee M · Post by **Lee M** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:45 am

That post has got to be a fake. After all, we know perfectly well there's no such thing as a corrupt government official, especially in the US Adminis...

Sorry, can't type any more, laughing too hard...

Sariah · Post by **Sariah** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:47 am

I heard abou this on the radio this morning.

Sick.

While some of you people want to leave the planet, this sort of thing makes me want to get involved in politics. We need good people in office. I may not be great, I may not even be good, but I'd bet my house I'm more truthful than many politians. (But then again, I'm an outsider looking in, so I don't know exactly what it's like.)

Maxgoof · Post by **Maxgoof** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:06 am

There is something that troubles me about the charges though:

He was arrested for sedducing a minor and transmitting restricted materials to a minor.

What minor? There was no minor involved!

Consider: a man solicits sex from a girl who claims to be 18 but is actually only 16. Doesn't matter what she said, she is still a minor, and the man can be arrested.

Turn the table around: a man solicits sex from an actual girl who claims to be 14 but is actually 18. The law cannot touch him. He did not actually solicit sex from a minor.

So, how does this crap stand?

Bengaley · Post by **Bengaley** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:16 am

I agree, it is crap that a guy can get in trouble if he solicits sex from someone who he believes to be an adult but is really a minor.

The converse, that he gets in trouble for soliciting sex from someone whom he believes to be a minor, but is really an adult, should be treated as if the girl was a minor.

My opinion, at least.

Madmoonie · Post by **Madmoonie** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:03 am

Am I the only person who has a problem with this guy soliciting sex in the first place?

RedSquirrel456 · Post by **RedSquirrel456** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:59 am

I agree... the simple fact that he was soliciting sex at all, to anyone, of any age, is disturbing to me. The fact that he has a high level government job only makes it worse.

Fact of the matter is, this is proof of moral incredibility and shows that he's not the kind of guy we want working for us.

He believed it to be a minor, and really, that doesn't matter if it really wasn't. If there really was a 14 year old girl, the actions, thoughts, and manner would be exactly the same.

Doesn't even the Bible say that if you think of murdering a man (murder him in your heart), you may as well have done so already?

Madmoonie · Post by **Madmoonie** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:10 am

Yes, it does.

Bengaley · Post by **Bengaley** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:11 am

I have no problem with anyone looking for sex. Men have testicles, nuff said. Don't know women's reasoning, becuase I'm not a woman and after my father, my mom swore off sex.

So long as its not illegal, all parties are of age of consent and do consent, and the actual act doesn't occur in public, then I don't think its anyone's business. Unless you're married, then, well...

Then theres the matter of your oath to your spouse, but thats not a matter for John Q. Public to get involved in either.

Maxgoof · Post by **Maxgoof** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:07 pm

Madmoonie wrote:Am I the only person who has a problem with this guy soliciting sex in the first place?

No, you are not. I have big a problem with it, as well. The man should be fired, certainly, for what he did and where he did it.

However....since he did not actually solicit sex from a minor, how can he be charged with it?

This is entrapment.

Maxgoof · Post by **Maxgoof** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:11 pm

RedSquirrel456 wrote:He believed it to be a minor, and really, that doesn't matter if it really wasn't. If there really was a 14 year old girl, the actions, thoughts, and manner would be exactly the same.

Doesn't even the Bible say that if you think of murdering a man (murder him in your heart), you may as well have done so already?

So, should a man be put to death for thinking about killing someone?

Yes, the man has a problem. Yes, he should get therapy.

But he did not solicit sex from a minor, nor transmit restricted materials to a minor.

Yet, that is what he is charged with.

More to the point: the accused has a constitutional right to face his victim in court. One problem.....NO VICTIM!!!!

Narnian · Post by **Narnian** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:29 pm

maxgoof wrote:
RedSquirrel456 wrote:He believed it to be a minor, and really, that doesn't matter if it really wasn't. If there really was a 14 year old girl, the actions, thoughts, and manner would be exactly the same.

Doesn't even the Bible say that if you think of murdering a man (murder him in your heart), you may as well have done so already?
So, should a man be put to death for thinking about killing someone?

Yes, the man has a problem. Yes, he should get therapy.

But he did not solicit sex from a minor, nor transmit restricted materials to a minor.

Yet, that is what he is charged with.

More to the point: the accused has a constitutional right to face his victim in court. One problem.....NO VICTIM!!!!

This type of sting is typical - police women posing as prostitutes, detectives selling fake drugs, etc. Solicitation itself is a crime so a crime has been committed.

Planning a crime (e.g. conspiracy) can be a crime as well (e.g. to kill, rape or rob soomeone). The 9/11 hijackers had committed a crime before they hijacked the planes by just planning it.

Not all crimes need a specific victim.

Maxgoof · Post by **Maxgoof** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:48 pm

Narnian wrote: This type of sting is typical - police women posing as prostitutes, detectives selling fake drugs, etc. Solicitation itself is a crime so a crime has been committed.

Never said a crime wasn't committed. Soliciting for sex is a crime, and that is what he should be charged with.

However, he did not solicit a minor. That's my problem.

Bengaley · Post by **Bengaley** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:54 pm

No, but he thought he was. Sought one out, to be more specific.

I've no problem with him getting the max penalties for the crime he was planning to commit.

It's not really entrapment unless someone in the know is egging you on. And teh biggest thing about it, is that you wouldn't be caught doing a crime if it you weren't going to do it anyway.

If it comes out that someone on the sting operation was saying 'Hey, its cool, I know people, its never going to come out,' then I'll start worrying. Before then...

Let the bastard rot in prison and be known as someone who was going to be a child molestor. Let the inmates take care of it.

StrangeWulf13 · Post by **StrangeWulf13** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:32 pm

I suppose you think my cousin should rot in jail as well then.

Oh, you didn't know.

See, he got arrested in a similar operation when he went to see a young man in the Twin Cities (St. Paul and Minneapolis in Minnesota). Seems when he got there, there was no young man, only a police officer waiting for him.

Now... I don't know if my cousin went down there for immoral reasons. But I did get the tail end of his story when he told my siblings, and I don't believe he had anything but good intentions. He went to help a troubled youth.

Now his dreams of being a youth director are shattered. He can't even apply for a job at McDonalds because he's registered as a sex offender.

He committed no crime, and as far as I can tell, he had no intention of doing so. And he gets arrested for soliciting a minor... who does not exist.

It's entrapment, plain and simple. The only reason anyone supports it is because they think it's taking dangerous criminals off the street.

Because after all, it's just too much work to actually enforce the current laws...

RedSquirrel456 · Post by **RedSquirrel456** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:57 pm

It is true that a man cannot and should not be punished until they actually commit the crime... it's the plain truth that in our world, until you pull the trigger or stab with the knife you aren't actually guilty of anything.

But I still don't think it's a bad thing to arrest a man that was walking into a building with the sole intent of killing everyone inside.

And Wulf, nobody was saying your cousin had to go to jail. Obviously we can't make a judgment on that since we don't have any details. But I also can't say I fully believe his intentions were honorable myself, since it's only by his word of mouth that he was going there to help somebody.

If I got information that a man was going to my neighbor's house to kill him or rob him, I wouldn't just sit there and wait until my neighbor was dead or thieved blind. I'd call the cops so they could get a lead and hopefully prevent something bad.

Of course every trial must be taken on a case by case basis. There's no blanket we can just throw over everything and mindlessly arrest wherever we believe or have suspiscions a crime might be committed. But that's delving into other matters entirely.

That does not, however, take away the fact that if a man has intent, it's probably no different. Would you wait to stop a man who was about to shoot you and said he would? Would you let him blast you in the stomach before taking action? It's tricky to prove motive and intent... but given the depths to which people can sink, I think that this so called entrapment isn't a fully unsupportable idea. If a person is obviously solicting sex to what he believes to be a minor, it doesn't matter if the minor is there or not. The outcome would have been the same whether or not the minor existed if the criminal had it thought into his head, "I'm going to do this."

Speaking from a Christian point of view, trying to see things from God's purely holy stand point, thinking it through in the head is the exact same as committing it. Given the prediliction to do bad things it's rather inevitable anyway. Execution of the crime is irrelevant when intent is totally clear.