<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patchy:
<B>As for why humans sometimes shy away from instincts, maybe it's because they know that instinctive action is not always the right one. After all, while instinct can warn one of danger, they also know it's a moth's instinct that draws it to the flame.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And let's not forget the "hit him on the head" instinct! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
Human instincts
-
CyberCorn Entropic
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 334
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: The Sock Zone
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patchy:
<B>As for why humans sometimes shy away from instincts, maybe it's because they know that instinctive action is not always the right one. After all, while instinct can warn one of danger, they also know it's a moth's instinct that draws it to the flame.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Also, humans stay away from instinct and embrace their intellect because instinct is something lower animals typically run on while lacking a highly-tuned intellect (for simplicity's sake, I'm leaving out furries and certain real world animals like dolphins when I define 'lower animals'). Humans want to perceive themselves as something greater than 'mere' animals and so eschew the "instinct of the animal" and embrace the intellect because that obviously/apparently is something "dumb beasts" lack.
Now, Gene's furries obviously lean towards the intellect for the same reason humans do,<I>however</I>, they also recognize that instinct also plays a part in who they are. Once they understand what instincts are affecting them, the furries can recognize any recurrences and choose whether or not to override the instinct.
Now then, let's see what the Illustrious Cartoonist says come Wednesday when we can watch him blow our guesses out of the water.<P>------------------
TARDIS EXPRESS - When it absolutely, positively needs to be there yesterday.
<B>As for why humans sometimes shy away from instincts, maybe it's because they know that instinctive action is not always the right one. After all, while instinct can warn one of danger, they also know it's a moth's instinct that draws it to the flame.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Also, humans stay away from instinct and embrace their intellect because instinct is something lower animals typically run on while lacking a highly-tuned intellect (for simplicity's sake, I'm leaving out furries and certain real world animals like dolphins when I define 'lower animals'). Humans want to perceive themselves as something greater than 'mere' animals and so eschew the "instinct of the animal" and embrace the intellect because that obviously/apparently is something "dumb beasts" lack.
Now, Gene's furries obviously lean towards the intellect for the same reason humans do,<I>however</I>, they also recognize that instinct also plays a part in who they are. Once they understand what instincts are affecting them, the furries can recognize any recurrences and choose whether or not to override the instinct.
Now then, let's see what the Illustrious Cartoonist says come Wednesday when we can watch him blow our guesses out of the water.<P>------------------
TARDIS EXPRESS - When it absolutely, positively needs to be there yesterday.
-
ItaX
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Fortaleza, CE, Brazil
- Contact:
hmmm...talking as Italo...one of the reasons I became a furry artist is just because I usually follow my instincts instead of my intellect. My territorial instinct is the strongest one...When I was 10 I saw my cousin messing up my bedroom...Boy!! I just "ROARED" him outta the room...almost outta the house indeed <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">! I remember my mom saying: "Stop it Italo!! You're acting like a beast!!"...actually I enjoyed hearing that <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">! I'm a furry artist because I just feel like a furry under a human shape...sounds weird huh <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">!?
<P>------------------
Light and darkness are as one in my soul!
<P>------------------
Light and darkness are as one in my soul!
-
Fetch26291
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Walpole, MA, USA
- Contact:
A certain instinctual reaction effect me at this time of year.<P>Quantify:
recent. early childhood.
caused by teacher showing a filmstrip, then waving the camera around, therefore making it look as if image was everywhere.
image was of dancing human internal suport structures.
initial reaction: Flight. clarify: I ran out of the room, out of the school, and halfway down the block.
current effect: almost anything regarding the holiday of October 31, but especially those that are in the dead category, cause me to feel very ill.<P>also, it is extremely easy for me to get MAD at this time of year.
recent. early childhood.
caused by teacher showing a filmstrip, then waving the camera around, therefore making it look as if image was everywhere.
image was of dancing human internal suport structures.
initial reaction: Flight. clarify: I ran out of the room, out of the school, and halfway down the block.
current effect: almost anything regarding the holiday of October 31, but especially those that are in the dead category, cause me to feel very ill.<P>also, it is extremely easy for me to get MAD at this time of year.
I suspect the next thing out of Ms. Gables' mouth (after 10-1 comic) would be 'could you define a few of those terms for me?'<P>*Wonders how much translation will be necessary between human and furry.*<P>------------------
Richard Reid
Captain; Webship Corwinda
http://www.ctnis.com/~corwinda
Richard Reid
Captain; Webship Corwinda
http://www.ctnis.com/~corwinda
Hmmm, so this is the first human to go to BII? Perhaps humans have a whole new classification of instincts?<P>As for why humans sometimes shy away from instincts, maybe it's because they know that instinctive action is not always the right one. After all, while instinct can warn one of danger, they also know it's a moth's instinct that draws it to the flame.<P> <P>------------------
Patch O'Black
The Jellicle Cat!
Patch O'Black
The Jellicle Cat!
Now, primus, let me state that IRL I specifically believe that human beings have something animals do not, something far more important than "intelligence." Specifically, a soul. This is not up for debate, so please do not bother trying to tell this christian how wrong-headed he is for taking his faith literally and thinking dear Fluffy or Rover lacks this commodity.(and I submit it is self-evident that the furries in Gene Catlow's world have souls as well, btw)<P>Segundus, as pertaining to "human instincts"-- the closest parallel humans have to the BII would be *clinical psychology and psychiatry.* Which are, after all, basically the same thing as "instinctive investigation", namely an attempt to "figure out what makes us tick."<P>However, our psychologists and psychiatrists have made an awful botch-up of it.
Why? Well, primarily because our psychology gurus-- Jung, Freud, etc.-- were bloody daft themselves, and hence fixated on daft theories based on data seen through their own warped perceptions. Never trust a mechanic whose car is always up on blocks <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif"><P>Secondly because furries in Gene's world have a decided advantage over humans: *they have other sentient races to compare their own behavior to.* Everybody has the same type of "intelligence", but different instincts-- which makes it far easier to distinguish what is intellect and learned behavior, and what is instinct... and also to distinguish what instincts are universal, and which ones are more specific to a particular species. <P>This is what enables furries to have such a "hard science" approach to what is essentially psychological analysis.. a "soft science." "Soft sciences" are highly subjective, and very difficult to submit to the scientific process because most of the time you're blowed if you know how to have a control group and a test group, for one thing, and because your *own* subjective experiences color your perception of the data terribly ("upon amputation of the fourth leg, frog goes completely deaf...")<P>Because of the relative segregation of human society from furry society, and the general disdain human society holds for furries-- after all, to do a psychological comparison would require admitting *that you had something in common with them* --- human psychological sciences would lag terribly.<P>Now, as to "human instincts." Let's do a profile.
Human:Homo Sapien.
Placental Mammal.
average lifespan: 75-100 yrs.
typical "family unit": monogamous pairings. Father, mother, offspring.
Most efficient social unit: tribal unit or "pack." 25 to 150 people on outside extreme.
diet: omnivorous.
Sleep/waking cycle: diurnal.
Climate range: tropical or semitropical, but capable of adapting to nearly every climate and ecosystem.
hunter/gatherer.
Long-range, high endurance "marathon" runner.
relatively poor swimmer and climber, though passable, and completely incapable as a burrower.
Height: 5-6 feet on average, full grown.
Weight: approx 200 lbs.
Reproductive cycle: year round/perpetual.
Litter size: 1 or 2, though births of 3, 4 or more, while rare, are not unheard of.
Senses: acute color vision, midrange overall vision(20/20), poor sense of smell and hearing, typical sense of taste, extremely acute sense of touch. Poor night vision.
Body type: akin to simian, with next to no body hair.
Tactile ability: high. (good with hands)<P>So... what sort of instinctive cross-section would you expect with all that?<P>------------------
Why? Well, primarily because our psychology gurus-- Jung, Freud, etc.-- were bloody daft themselves, and hence fixated on daft theories based on data seen through their own warped perceptions. Never trust a mechanic whose car is always up on blocks <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif"><P>Secondly because furries in Gene's world have a decided advantage over humans: *they have other sentient races to compare their own behavior to.* Everybody has the same type of "intelligence", but different instincts-- which makes it far easier to distinguish what is intellect and learned behavior, and what is instinct... and also to distinguish what instincts are universal, and which ones are more specific to a particular species. <P>This is what enables furries to have such a "hard science" approach to what is essentially psychological analysis.. a "soft science." "Soft sciences" are highly subjective, and very difficult to submit to the scientific process because most of the time you're blowed if you know how to have a control group and a test group, for one thing, and because your *own* subjective experiences color your perception of the data terribly ("upon amputation of the fourth leg, frog goes completely deaf...")<P>Because of the relative segregation of human society from furry society, and the general disdain human society holds for furries-- after all, to do a psychological comparison would require admitting *that you had something in common with them* --- human psychological sciences would lag terribly.<P>Now, as to "human instincts." Let's do a profile.
Human:Homo Sapien.
Placental Mammal.
average lifespan: 75-100 yrs.
typical "family unit": monogamous pairings. Father, mother, offspring.
Most efficient social unit: tribal unit or "pack." 25 to 150 people on outside extreme.
diet: omnivorous.
Sleep/waking cycle: diurnal.
Climate range: tropical or semitropical, but capable of adapting to nearly every climate and ecosystem.
hunter/gatherer.
Long-range, high endurance "marathon" runner.
relatively poor swimmer and climber, though passable, and completely incapable as a burrower.
Height: 5-6 feet on average, full grown.
Weight: approx 200 lbs.
Reproductive cycle: year round/perpetual.
Litter size: 1 or 2, though births of 3, 4 or more, while rare, are not unheard of.
Senses: acute color vision, midrange overall vision(20/20), poor sense of smell and hearing, typical sense of taste, extremely acute sense of touch. Poor night vision.
Body type: akin to simian, with next to no body hair.
Tactile ability: high. (good with hands)<P>So... what sort of instinctive cross-section would you expect with all that?<P>------------------
-
Genecatlow
- Cartoon Hero
- Posts: 3183
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Concord, CA. USA
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CyberCorn Entropic:
<B> Also, humans stay away from instinct and embrace their intellect because instinct is something lower animals typically run on while lacking a highly-tuned intellect (for simplicity's sake, I'm leaving out furries and certain real world animals like dolphins when I define 'lower animals'). Humans want to perceive themselves as something greater than 'mere' animals and so eschew the "instinct of the animal" and embrace the intellect because that obviously/apparently is something "dumb beasts" lack.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In this case, they don't exactly lack
intellect, but by and large the human element
of their world do leave instinct alone - even,
as Gene noted, the humans who appreciate and
enjoy living with furries. Instinct is more
or less embraced by furries and avoided by
both furry-friendly humans (regarded as "a
furry thing") and furry-hostile humans (a
thing that "those damn beasts" do, but not a
<B>human,</B> of course!)<B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Now, Gene's furries obviously lean towards the intellect for the same reason humans do,<I>however</I>, they also recognize that instinct also plays a part in who they are. Once they understand what instincts are affecting them, the furries can recognize any recurrences and choose whether or not to override the instinct.
Now then, let's see what the Illustrious Cartoonist says come Wednesday when we can watch him blow our guesses out of the water.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, the cartoonist has no intention of blowing
anyone's guesses out of the water on Wednesday!
I felt it necessary to go into at least a bit
of detail about the BII and what it does; it
wouldn't make sense to simply keep referring
to it as some vague type of (furry) government
agency without giving the reader some idea of
what types of information they process.<P>
<B> Also, humans stay away from instinct and embrace their intellect because instinct is something lower animals typically run on while lacking a highly-tuned intellect (for simplicity's sake, I'm leaving out furries and certain real world animals like dolphins when I define 'lower animals'). Humans want to perceive themselves as something greater than 'mere' animals and so eschew the "instinct of the animal" and embrace the intellect because that obviously/apparently is something "dumb beasts" lack.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In this case, they don't exactly lack
intellect, but by and large the human element
of their world do leave instinct alone - even,
as Gene noted, the humans who appreciate and
enjoy living with furries. Instinct is more
or less embraced by furries and avoided by
both furry-friendly humans (regarded as "a
furry thing") and furry-hostile humans (a
thing that "those damn beasts" do, but not a
<B>human,</B> of course!)<B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Now, Gene's furries obviously lean towards the intellect for the same reason humans do,<I>however</I>, they also recognize that instinct also plays a part in who they are. Once they understand what instincts are affecting them, the furries can recognize any recurrences and choose whether or not to override the instinct.
Now then, let's see what the Illustrious Cartoonist says come Wednesday when we can watch him blow our guesses out of the water.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, the cartoonist has no intention of blowing
anyone's guesses out of the water on Wednesday!
I felt it necessary to go into at least a bit
of detail about the BII and what it does; it
wouldn't make sense to simply keep referring
to it as some vague type of (furry) government
agency without giving the reader some idea of
what types of information they process.<P>
-
Genecatlow
- Cartoon Hero
- Posts: 3183
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Concord, CA. USA
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ItaX:
<B>hmmm...talking as Italo...one of the reasons I became a furry artist is just because I usually follow my instincts instead of my intellect. My territorial instinct is the strongest one...When I was 10 I saw my cousin messing up my bedroom...Boy!! I just "ROARED" him outta the room...almost outta the house indeed <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">! I remember my mom saying: "Stop it Italo!! You're acting like a beast!!"...actually I enjoyed hearing that <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">! I'm a furry artist because I just feel like a furry under a human shape...sounds weird huh <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.g ... BLOCKQUOTE>
Perhaps that is simply your own normal
personality... in which case, it's not all
that weird, it's just <I>you</I>. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><P>
<B>hmmm...talking as Italo...one of the reasons I became a furry artist is just because I usually follow my instincts instead of my intellect. My territorial instinct is the strongest one...When I was 10 I saw my cousin messing up my bedroom...Boy!! I just "ROARED" him outta the room...almost outta the house indeed <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">! I remember my mom saying: "Stop it Italo!! You're acting like a beast!!"...actually I enjoyed hearing that <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">! I'm a furry artist because I just feel like a furry under a human shape...sounds weird huh <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.g ... BLOCKQUOTE>
Perhaps that is simply your own normal
personality... in which case, it's not all
that weird, it's just <I>you</I>. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><P>
-
Genecatlow
- Cartoon Hero
- Posts: 3183
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Concord, CA. USA
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fetch26291:
<B>A certain instinctual reaction effect me at this time of year.<P>Quantify:
recent. early childhood.
caused by teacher showing a filmstrip, then waving the camera around, therefore making it look as if image was everywhere.
image was of dancing human internal suport structures.
initial reaction: Flight. clarify: I ran out of the room, out of the school, and halfway down the block.
current effect: almost anything regarding the holiday of October 31, but especially those that are in the dead category, cause me to feel very ill.<P>also, it is extremely easy for me to get MAD at this time of year.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And if a repositor were doing a data check on
you (which involves both taking down your
information AND using their own perception to
your instinctive feelings to corroborate the
information) the repositor could help you to
direct yourself away from your anger reaction
and be more at ease with yourself.
<B>A certain instinctual reaction effect me at this time of year.<P>Quantify:
recent. early childhood.
caused by teacher showing a filmstrip, then waving the camera around, therefore making it look as if image was everywhere.
image was of dancing human internal suport structures.
initial reaction: Flight. clarify: I ran out of the room, out of the school, and halfway down the block.
current effect: almost anything regarding the holiday of October 31, but especially those that are in the dead category, cause me to feel very ill.<P>also, it is extremely easy for me to get MAD at this time of year.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And if a repositor were doing a data check on
you (which involves both taking down your
information AND using their own perception to
your instinctive feelings to corroborate the
information) the repositor could help you to
direct yourself away from your anger reaction
and be more at ease with yourself.
-
ItaX
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Fortaleza, CE, Brazil
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by genecatlow:
<B>
Perhaps that is simply your own normal
personality... in which case, it's not all
that weird, it's just <I>you</I>. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well! Have you ever seen a rabbit that ROARS intruders outta its territory <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!? Hmm...Do you think I should visit the BII office before going to the Festival!? Maybe CatsWhisker could help me about my instincts...although I'm sure I'd be the first furry with double instictive reactions ever registered on BII's files <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!
(DarkX: hmmm...I'm getting a weird feeling that something <B>WILL</B> happen at that Festival...I'm ready for <B>ACTION</B>!)<P>------------------
Light and darkness are as one in my soul!
<B>
Perhaps that is simply your own normal
personality... in which case, it's not all
that weird, it's just <I>you</I>. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well! Have you ever seen a rabbit that ROARS intruders outta its territory <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!? Hmm...Do you think I should visit the BII office before going to the Festival!? Maybe CatsWhisker could help me about my instincts...although I'm sure I'd be the first furry with double instictive reactions ever registered on BII's files <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!
(DarkX: hmmm...I'm getting a weird feeling that something <B>WILL</B> happen at that Festival...I'm ready for <B>ACTION</B>!)<P>------------------
Light and darkness are as one in my soul!
-
Sunblaze Wildfire
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 622
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ItaX:
<B> Well! Have you ever seen a rabbit that ROARS intruders outta its territory <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!? Hmm...Do you think I should visit the BII office before going to the Festival!? Maybe CatsWhisker could help me about my instincts...although I'm sure I'd be the first furry with double instictive reactions ever registered on BII's files <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!
(DarkX: hmmm...I'm getting a weird feeling that something WILL</B> happen at that Festival...I'm ready for <B>ACTION</B>!)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>*laughs* I may beat you to it. I'm a very complex creature with instincts ranging from a cat's to a lizard's. Besides, I be very curious on how BII treat my type of creature. One of these days I'm going to have to figure out what part of me is making me catch frisbees in my mouth, the fox or the dog part of me. *laughs*<P><P>------------------
<A HREF="http://www.sunblazewildfire.com/" TARGET=_blank>Sunblaze Wildfire</A> (a.k.a. <A HREF="http://www.bostonandshaun.com/" TARGET=_blank>Shaun Reveal</A>)
<B> Well! Have you ever seen a rabbit that ROARS intruders outta its territory <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!? Hmm...Do you think I should visit the BII office before going to the Festival!? Maybe CatsWhisker could help me about my instincts...although I'm sure I'd be the first furry with double instictive reactions ever registered on BII's files <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!
(DarkX: hmmm...I'm getting a weird feeling that something WILL</B> happen at that Festival...I'm ready for <B>ACTION</B>!)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>*laughs* I may beat you to it. I'm a very complex creature with instincts ranging from a cat's to a lizard's. Besides, I be very curious on how BII treat my type of creature. One of these days I'm going to have to figure out what part of me is making me catch frisbees in my mouth, the fox or the dog part of me. *laughs*<P><P>------------------
<A HREF="http://www.sunblazewildfire.com/" TARGET=_blank>Sunblaze Wildfire</A> (a.k.a. <A HREF="http://www.bostonandshaun.com/" TARGET=_blank>Shaun Reveal</A>)
-
ItaX
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Fortaleza, CE, Brazil
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sunblaze Wildfire:
<B>
*laughs* I may beat you to it. I'm a very complex creature with instincts ranging from a cat's to a lizard's. Besides, I be very curious on how BII treat my type of creature. One of these days I'm going to have to figure out what part of me is making me catch frisbees in my mouth, the fox or the dog part of me. *laughs*
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well then <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">! In that case! Do you want to visit the BII office with me!? I think we both can fully confuse the repositors...including Ms. CatsWhisker...That would be funny <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!!!
Get ready Gene and CW!!... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><P>------------------
Light and darkness are as one in my soul!
<B>
*laughs* I may beat you to it. I'm a very complex creature with instincts ranging from a cat's to a lizard's. Besides, I be very curious on how BII treat my type of creature. One of these days I'm going to have to figure out what part of me is making me catch frisbees in my mouth, the fox or the dog part of me. *laughs*
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well then <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">! In that case! Do you want to visit the BII office with me!? I think we both can fully confuse the repositors...including Ms. CatsWhisker...That would be funny <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!!!
Get ready Gene and CW!!... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><P>------------------
Light and darkness are as one in my soul!
-
Sunblaze Wildfire
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 622
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ItaX:
<B> Well then <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">! In that case! Do you want to visit the BII office with me!? I think we both can fully confuse the repositors...including Ms. CatsWhisker...That would be funny <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!!!
Get ready Gene and CW!!... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sure, ItaX. Watch out, Gene and CW. We're coming. *evil grin*<P>------------------
<A HREF="http://www.sunblazewildfire.com/" TARGET=_blank>Sunblaze Wildfire</A> (a.k.a. <A HREF="http://www.bostonandshaun.com/" TARGET=_blank>Shaun Reveal</A>)
<B> Well then <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">! In that case! Do you want to visit the BII office with me!? I think we both can fully confuse the repositors...including Ms. CatsWhisker...That would be funny <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!!!
Get ready Gene and CW!!... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sure, ItaX. Watch out, Gene and CW. We're coming. *evil grin*<P>------------------
<A HREF="http://www.sunblazewildfire.com/" TARGET=_blank>Sunblaze Wildfire</A> (a.k.a. <A HREF="http://www.bostonandshaun.com/" TARGET=_blank>Shaun Reveal</A>)
(Note: I started composing this yesterday, and there have quite a few entries added before I completed it that I haven't even read. This is a direct reply to CyberCorn's post. I hope this is still germane. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> )
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CyberCorn Entropic:
<B> Also, humans stay away from instinct and embrace their intellect because instinct is something lower animals typically run on while lacking a highly-tuned intellect ... </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I disagree. If you've ever been to a bar, a church, or a sporting event, certainly you've seen humans who are embracing something besides raw intellect. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> I am not condemning those things, it's just that intellectual response is not all it's hopped up to be. We humans react with our hearts, our gut feelings, and more, most of the time. I mean, have you ever said to yourself, "Although my coworker just made me look foolish in front of our boss to increase his social standing, I will not get mad and fight back because that is an instinct reserved for the lower primates." Of course not. I bet chimps would be the furthest thing from your mind. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><P>
When I read the comic where Ms. Gables says, "I myself have had plenty of instinctive feelings over the years," I asked myself, "What instinctive reactions have <B><I>I</I></B> had recently?" and my immediate answer was "None that I can think of." But then I began to wonder, what is an instinctive reaction? The definition I based my first answer would be a reaction that seemed to be due to some part of me other than "me", some really strong feeling that I couldn't explain and didn't seem reasonable for me. And truly, I can say that has very rarely happened. <P>Is that really an instinct? Nah. But, how do you distinguish a reaction that is an instinct from one that is not? Are all reactions that are not strictly logical instincts? I don't think that's true either. I can't say that my attraction towards wearing blue shirts and my attraction toward cuddling a cute baby feel different. They both are just kind of "the way I am". I would hesitate to classify liking blue as an instict and I would probably classify liking babies as an instinct, but they feel the same to <B>me</B>. <P>The problem is more that we humans don't have any clear indication or feeling that a reaction is instinctive, at least to the level of quantification that Gene and CW imply is possible for the furries. I mean, who can tell whether urge to cuddle a baby is a recent or ancient instict? (Compared to what? Well, how about the urge to run from an unidentified noise?)<P>Some humans have spent a lot of time trying to determine why we have the reactions we have, but in general humans don't analyze their reactions that way. If someone cuts me off in traffic, I'm mad because they cut me off. I very rarely ask why that should make me mad. If I see a baby, I want to cuddle it because I think it is cute. I very rarely ask what makes it cute.<P>Only if one could somehow quantify the differences could one make a personal objective report to a repositor. We humans have to depend on insightful studies to learn that a creature having a large head relative to its body size triggers the urge to cuddle and mother, or that 45 degree angles in a face makes it the scariest.<P> Later,
-Louis! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
<p>[This message has been edited by LouisTh (edited 10-02-2001).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CyberCorn Entropic:
<B> Also, humans stay away from instinct and embrace their intellect because instinct is something lower animals typically run on while lacking a highly-tuned intellect ... </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I disagree. If you've ever been to a bar, a church, or a sporting event, certainly you've seen humans who are embracing something besides raw intellect. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> I am not condemning those things, it's just that intellectual response is not all it's hopped up to be. We humans react with our hearts, our gut feelings, and more, most of the time. I mean, have you ever said to yourself, "Although my coworker just made me look foolish in front of our boss to increase his social standing, I will not get mad and fight back because that is an instinct reserved for the lower primates." Of course not. I bet chimps would be the furthest thing from your mind. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><P>
When I read the comic where Ms. Gables says, "I myself have had plenty of instinctive feelings over the years," I asked myself, "What instinctive reactions have <B><I>I</I></B> had recently?" and my immediate answer was "None that I can think of." But then I began to wonder, what is an instinctive reaction? The definition I based my first answer would be a reaction that seemed to be due to some part of me other than "me", some really strong feeling that I couldn't explain and didn't seem reasonable for me. And truly, I can say that has very rarely happened. <P>Is that really an instinct? Nah. But, how do you distinguish a reaction that is an instinct from one that is not? Are all reactions that are not strictly logical instincts? I don't think that's true either. I can't say that my attraction towards wearing blue shirts and my attraction toward cuddling a cute baby feel different. They both are just kind of "the way I am". I would hesitate to classify liking blue as an instict and I would probably classify liking babies as an instinct, but they feel the same to <B>me</B>. <P>The problem is more that we humans don't have any clear indication or feeling that a reaction is instinctive, at least to the level of quantification that Gene and CW imply is possible for the furries. I mean, who can tell whether urge to cuddle a baby is a recent or ancient instict? (Compared to what? Well, how about the urge to run from an unidentified noise?)<P>Some humans have spent a lot of time trying to determine why we have the reactions we have, but in general humans don't analyze their reactions that way. If someone cuts me off in traffic, I'm mad because they cut me off. I very rarely ask why that should make me mad. If I see a baby, I want to cuddle it because I think it is cute. I very rarely ask what makes it cute.<P>Only if one could somehow quantify the differences could one make a personal objective report to a repositor. We humans have to depend on insightful studies to learn that a creature having a large head relative to its body size triggers the urge to cuddle and mother, or that 45 degree angles in a face makes it the scariest.<P> Later,
-Louis! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
<p>[This message has been edited by LouisTh (edited 10-02-2001).]
-
Genecatlow
- Cartoon Hero
- Posts: 3183
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Concord, CA. USA
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RHJunior:
<B>Now, as to "human instincts." Let's do a profile.
---------------------------------------------
So... what sort of instinctive cross-section would you expect with all that?
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Instinct wouldn't be derived as much from who
and what you are now, but who and what your
entire species (and whatever species yours
may have bred with) in its accumulated past.
(Which is another reason why the humans of
Furriston's world tend to leave it alone:
they feel that it's an evolutionary step
backwards.) You outline what your species is
like within its recent history - but if your
species had its roots in prehistoric times,
there would be instinctive reactions that you
might be able to identify from much farther
back than recorded history.
<B>Now, as to "human instincts." Let's do a profile.
---------------------------------------------
So... what sort of instinctive cross-section would you expect with all that?
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Instinct wouldn't be derived as much from who
and what you are now, but who and what your
entire species (and whatever species yours
may have bred with) in its accumulated past.
(Which is another reason why the humans of
Furriston's world tend to leave it alone:
they feel that it's an evolutionary step
backwards.) You outline what your species is
like within its recent history - but if your
species had its roots in prehistoric times,
there would be instinctive reactions that you
might be able to identify from much farther
back than recorded history.
-
Genecatlow
- Cartoon Hero
- Posts: 3183
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Concord, CA. USA
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Katra:
<B>I suspect the next thing out of Ms. Gables' mouth (after 10-1 comic) would be 'could you define a few of those terms for me?'<P>*Wonders how much translation will be necessary between human and furry.*
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And if it were, CW would be more than happy
to do so - or to at least try to work out
some of the terms under which *humans* would
define their own unique parameters of instinct.
The reasons she and Gene toss out so many of
their own definitions is because there are
<I>none</I> used by humanity. They'd be more
than happy to begin a dialogue on human
instinct; so far, humanity has never gotten
any farther than Maxine did. Indeed, by her
very curiosity, Maxine has gone light-years
farther than most humans of their world ever
have on the subject. The overwhelming majority
(both those who like and those who dislike
furries) don't even get as far as curiosity.
<B>I suspect the next thing out of Ms. Gables' mouth (after 10-1 comic) would be 'could you define a few of those terms for me?'<P>*Wonders how much translation will be necessary between human and furry.*
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And if it were, CW would be more than happy
to do so - or to at least try to work out
some of the terms under which *humans* would
define their own unique parameters of instinct.
The reasons she and Gene toss out so many of
their own definitions is because there are
<I>none</I> used by humanity. They'd be more
than happy to begin a dialogue on human
instinct; so far, humanity has never gotten
any farther than Maxine did. Indeed, by her
very curiosity, Maxine has gone light-years
farther than most humans of their world ever
have on the subject. The overwhelming majority
(both those who like and those who dislike
furries) don't even get as far as curiosity.
-
Genecatlow
- Cartoon Hero
- Posts: 3183
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Concord, CA. USA
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patchy:
<B>Hmmm, so this is the first human to go to BII? Perhaps humans have a whole new classification of instincts?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<I>Any</I> classification of instincts would
be very, very welcome by the BII.<B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
As for why humans sometimes shy away from instincts, maybe it's because they know that instinctive action is not always the right one. After all, while instinct can warn one of danger, they also know it's a moth's instinct that draws it to the flame.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actially, it isn't really instinct, but more
of a sensory reaction in the case of moths.
But in the case of furries, knowledge of
instincts, good or bad, is considered vital.
Lloyd began to realize that his instincts
weren't good ones, and initially he tried to
evade the problem. But after a while he knew
he had to face the problem, and did.
<B>Hmmm, so this is the first human to go to BII? Perhaps humans have a whole new classification of instincts?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<I>Any</I> classification of instincts would
be very, very welcome by the BII.<B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
As for why humans sometimes shy away from instincts, maybe it's because they know that instinctive action is not always the right one. After all, while instinct can warn one of danger, they also know it's a moth's instinct that draws it to the flame.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actially, it isn't really instinct, but more
of a sensory reaction in the case of moths.
But in the case of furries, knowledge of
instincts, good or bad, is considered vital.
Lloyd began to realize that his instincts
weren't good ones, and initially he tried to
evade the problem. But after a while he knew
he had to face the problem, and did.
Is there any clear divide between instinct and <I>conditioning</I>, I wonder? Until recently I'd have denied that there was any such thing as instinct, just learnt responses; say, an automatic positive response to a certain stimulus is 'learnt' by a positive experience related to it in the past. I also thought that this was a Bad Thing, and (rather madly) that all stimuli should be interpreted consciously (or at least that we should be reprogramming ourselves in a 'rational' way). Since then I've backed off slightly; I'll concede that there are some hard-wired instincts (just because there's so much evidence for it), but I still reckon that they're much too mutable and fuzzy to be quantified exactly. Take phobias - 'instinctive' reactions often to things so irrational (like rhubarb) you couldn't possibly be born with them...<P>There was a point somewhere in that, but I think it drowned.<P>------------------
James
<A HREF="http://toothandclaw.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Tooth and Claw</A>
James
<A HREF="http://toothandclaw.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Tooth and Claw</A>
-
Genecatlow
- Cartoon Hero
- Posts: 3183
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Concord, CA. USA
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ItaX:
<B> Well! Have you ever seen a rabbit that ROARS intruders outta its territory <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!? Hmm...Do you think I should visit the BII office before going to the Festival!? Maybe CatsWhisker could help me about my instincts...although I'm sure I'd be the first furry with double instictive reactions ever registered on BII's files <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!
(DarkX: hmmm...I'm getting a weird feeling that something WILL</B> happen at that Festival...I'm ready for <B>ACTION</B>!)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, rabbits *have* been known to make
many territorial-protection noises (though I
will admit, roaring is rather unusual). But I
can tell you that the BII's records are MUCH
more extensive than you might imagine! There
are many instances of entire personalities
manifesting themselves through instinct in
more than a few unsuspecting furries. This is
one of the reasons why they depend upon the
BII so much; instinct is a big part of their
lives, and if something isn't right they need
to know what to do. CW would be more than
happy to assist you, but you'd have a hard
time surprising as experienced a repositor as
she is. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">
<B> Well! Have you ever seen a rabbit that ROARS intruders outta its territory <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!? Hmm...Do you think I should visit the BII office before going to the Festival!? Maybe CatsWhisker could help me about my instincts...although I'm sure I'd be the first furry with double instictive reactions ever registered on BII's files <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!
(DarkX: hmmm...I'm getting a weird feeling that something WILL</B> happen at that Festival...I'm ready for <B>ACTION</B>!)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, rabbits *have* been known to make
many territorial-protection noises (though I
will admit, roaring is rather unusual). But I
can tell you that the BII's records are MUCH
more extensive than you might imagine! There
are many instances of entire personalities
manifesting themselves through instinct in
more than a few unsuspecting furries. This is
one of the reasons why they depend upon the
BII so much; instinct is a big part of their
lives, and if something isn't right they need
to know what to do. CW would be more than
happy to assist you, but you'd have a hard
time surprising as experienced a repositor as
she is. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">
