*Applauds the end of President Bush's address*

[LoneWolf23k]

Y'know.. I don't care what the lefties say..

Dubya rocks. His speech basically covered everything I thought about the whole War in Iraq..

-Ok, so it turns out there weren't any WMDs. But we couldn't take the chance with Saddam.

-Yes, there's still violence in Iraq. But there's even more reconstruction and even more improvement of the lives of Iraqi citizens.

-The Iraqis now have democracy, and now even the long hold-out Sunnis are starting to warm up to the idea.

And most importantly
-If the US pulls out now, they're basically abandonning the Iraqis while they still need us, spitting in the faces of the soldiers who sacrificed so much for this war, and allowing all those middle-eastern regimes to mock the ideals of freedom even more..

All in all.. A very good speech, I felt.

[Shyal_malkes]

my brother (who is a much better linguist then I) noticed something different in his speech and figured that Pres. Bush had gotten different speech writers.

I'm glad he's got another three years (unless he does something genuinely stupid) as that will make sure he can't be replaced too quickly and have the soldiers pulled out causing a potential colapse which would almost (imo) guarantee Iraq becoming US enemy #1. and then those that replaced bush and caused the mess would probably blame him for the problem and say it was innevitable anyway.

sorry if my comments offend anyone but that is my opinion

albeit I find myself taking many grains of salt for my own opinion
(some of which I take through open wounds)

[Kerry Skydancer]

Heh. Most of us agree with you, Shyal, so I wouldn't fret on that account. Though I thought that the bit about 'not even the terrorists think the US is losing' should have ended with 'So WTF is your problem, Dean?"

[Jaydub]

It was a great speech. I am glad to see that Bush is no longer trying to be above the fray and is fighting back the spin from the Democrats. Our troops are doing a fantastic job over in Iraq and have never lost a battle. We are winning and the only way we could lose this war is if the spineless politicians get their way and we cut and run. If that happens it will embolden the radical Islamic terrorists and we will see more terrorist acts here at home. Remember Bin Laden thought we were open for terrorist attacks after we cut and run from Mogadishu. He felt we were weak and did not have the will to fight back. We need to stay the course and continue to work with the Iraq until they are ready to handle their protection themselves. To leave any earlier would be a slap in the face of our troops and the Iraq people.

[Madmoonie]

I, unfortunatly, did not see his speech, but to leave, like my my favorite object of spitwad target practice, Dean is sudjesting would abandon the Iraqi people to civil war and expose them alot of danger and destruction. I certainly wish we were able to hear alot of the successes in Iraq, and not just the loses, like all that I hear.

[Kerry Skydancer]

Certain parts of the Democratic party are starting to act like the disloyal faction of Northern Democrats during the American Civil War. Time to start calling them on it.

http://www.dartemis.net/users/r_g_graves/

[Jwrebholz]

Even many of my left-leaning friends believe as I do--that leaving the job in Iraq half-done by leaving now would be a horrible disaster.

I want our troops home and safe as much as anyone else--especially the families of those troops--but I, like most reasonable people, understand there's a job to be done and it has to be DONE. I do not leave work half-finished, and I expect the same from my fellow countrymen and women.

ANY politico who supports the idea that our boys need to come home RIGHT NOW is not getting my vote when they come up for re-election. Thoughts like that show just how petty and short-sighted they are, and I'd rather have leaders who are willing to work for a long-term goal.

[RedSquirrel456]

Well, this is just my personal opinion, but...

I think Iraq was entirely unnecessary. The simple fact that there were no WMDs pretty much proves that. And what chance would we be taking by letting Saddam remain in power? His armies surrendered to camera crews. We walked all over him in a matter of weeks (was it months?). His sons are dead, and he's a beaten man with nothing left for him but to face a farcical trial to display the death of a dictator. There was never any chance that he was going to be any sort of threat to anyone (though was extremely lethal to his own people). I'll concede that he did have terrorist connections. Okay. So there we have a reason to kick him in the balls and take over the place, which we did with prejudice.

And... now we're giving it right back? That's the real meat of the problem for me. Saddam's former generals have positions of power. The Sunnis and Shi'ites are just as much at each other's throats as they always have been. It's always been a corrupt, insignificant place on the map, and will continue that way when we leave! I seriously doubt that anyone is actually going to be grateful to us for all this in the long run (which is why we have our army ). Especially the Iraqis. That's just not how countries and cultures work... just because we're America that kicks butt and saves the day and topples dictators, well, we can do that until the Second Coming, and just about everyone else will still hate our guts because we have the power to do that. This isn't going to solve a whole lotta problems.

The job that needs doing, as I see it, is the conquest of a defeated country... it was our enemy when the war began. Its leader spat in our face. Its armies fought against us. It's very people in many cases have taken up arms against us.

Why don't we just get what we need out of this place and gun down anyone who says different? What about all the freaking oil that's there? Isn't that a goal of most countries nowadays, to control oil and the trading of it? Isn't our rising prices of oil an issue anymore?

As for defeating terrorists on their own ground... well, we're doing that. And they just keep coming. And they always will, for as long as Islam exists as a cohesive force.

But have they ever tried anything against the US on its own soil since 9/11? I think not. Anthrax was a joke. I haven't heard of any major arrests at any of the airports proving that the system is actually catching these guys, or that they're even here in the first place. The World Trade Center collapse was a horrific disaster, yes, I'm not downplaying that... but it was a complete stroke of simple, God-given, all the pieces fit together luck for Al Quada. I really doubt that Osama Bin Laden actually planned to completely collapse both of those towers. It was shown that engineering errors basically ensured that anyway. These guys are not as conniving or dangerous as they're made out to be. Real, intelligent, dangerous terrorists would be hitting the White House. They would try to halt the stock market. They would have smashed those planes into major highways in and out of our more important metropolitan areas. They'd assassinate CEOs. They'd instigate civil unrest. Knocking a couple buildings down should be the least of anyone's worries.

You guys want real terrorists? Try looking at illegal immigrants... and some of their "law-abiding" counterparts. Legality does not lead to love for the country they are obeying the laws of.

Making Iraq democratic should also thus be the least of our worries. Democracy does not automtically ensure freedom, or love, or respect for fellow man. Democracy is just another form of government... and can be manipulated, twisted, and corrupted just as easily, and that will happen in Iraq if we leave it to its own devices. All we're doing right now is creating a power vacuum for the next dictator who can get into office just by saying he'll do a good job.

Personally, I've seen all this as mere proof of America's weakness as far as doing what's right, or at least beneficial to our own country is concerned.

To put this all into context... I actually missed the speech. I just saw this as a good time to put in my two cents on the matter.