An American Webcomic in London

Rocknjosie · Post by **Rocknjosie** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:06 pm

I have to thank you. I was totally unconstructive with my critism and just critised and looked all angry. You totally made me laugh with your reply and I feel much happier now! I'm really glad you were able to take my comments in stride, and I'm sorry I was so hard. I really do think you're witty, just yknow try differing angles, perspective, detailed backgrounds. Those are just the things I look for in a comic.

Fourth Floor · Post by **Fourth Floor** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:19 pm

That's cool. I'm working on some backgrounds right now but the pictures are so big it takes ages to edit them and I'm not sure when I'll be able to introduce them.

I still don't get why people are so hung up over the breasts, though. I've made it clear in these forums and on the site that Amy's character is a parody of strips like Liberty Meadows and Least I Could Do to name only two. I'm also trying to make the point that sex is used constantly in advertising and the media to appeal to men, with the two-fold result that any impulses besides hunger or lust are not expected of us and that a false ideal of how women should be has been created.

There are two female characters in the strip - one who tries to live up to this artificial ideal and another who does not. Can you guess whose side I'm on?

Rocknjosie · Post by **Rocknjosie** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:44 pm

Fourth Floor wrote:That's cool. I'm working on some backgrounds right now but the pictures are so big it takes ages to edit them and I'm not sure when I'll be able to introduce them.

I still don't get why people are so hung up over the breasts, though. I've made it clear in these forums and on the site that Amy's character is a parody of strips like Liberty Meadows and Least I Could Do to name only two. I'm also trying to make the point that sex is used constantly in advertising and the media to appeal to men, with the two-fold result that any impulses besides hunger or lust are not expected of us and that a false ideal of how women should be has been created.

There are two female characters in the strip - one who tries to live up to this artificial ideal and another who does not. Can you guess whose side I'm on?

Yeah but even your non artificial one is awfully busty. I'm not putting the pressure on you, but I just want to see one comic where a girl has C cups (B is average I think) or less. To put that into proportion that would be maybe a little more than two inches off the body.

Yeahduff · Post by **Yeahduff** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:59 pm

She's right. They don't move enough. Even if on every third page there's a scene of action-packed shenanigans from a multitude of angles, the ones where they're just talking need SOME variation. People DON'T just sit around talking. They gesture, they move their heads, they change position, they very likely are doing something else while the conversation is going on. I know it's difficult to have variation when you just need people to say things, I have the same problem. But it does get very boring looking at six panels that are very nearly exactly the same.

As for the breasts, I can see what you're saying about Amy. When you talk about Charlotte, though, it all falls apart. She's spectacularly endowed herself, and she's got the midriff thing going. Whether or not she's trying to live up to the world's ideals or not, she most certainly is reinforcing them. I personally don't care about the size of your characters (you could draw them better, though). But people notice that kinda thing, and if you really truly are looking to convey a feminist message, you should look at everything first, because it's not getting across.

You have your style and people seem to enjoy it, so if you don't feel like changing anything, that's cool. I do recommend you reexamine it, do.

Fourth Floor · Post by **Fourth Floor** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:51 am

I hear what you're saying, Yeahduff. As I've said elsewhere (possibly in this topic, can't remember), I'm going to apply my new character redesign after this storyline finishes. I agree that there isn't enough contrast between Amy and Charlotte so I'm doing something to change that. I've been drawing cartoons my whole life but I've only been drawing women for the past couple of years.

I'm going to change the way I draw the breasts, as well. But don't think me sexist. The guys are also terrifically well-endowed but no-one ever gets to see it.

The feminist message is a subtle one and will be explored more in the future but I'm only 36 strips in as it is. It's been basic characterisation and talking toasters for the most part. Watch this space and thanks for your feedback.

Anyway... aren't their eyes unrealistically huge? Woah. I really screwed up on that one. Their eyes bulge out of their heads! I must be some kind of eye-pervert.

Nutcracker · Post by **Nutcracker** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:35 am

Fourth Floor wrote:I still don't get why people are so hung up over the breasts, though.

Big size is ok, but Amy's and Charlotte's look like ahem ... long breasts in a push-up bra. It makes them look old.
And I didn't notice that Amy has bigger.
Enough about boobs. Your comic is funny and worth checking out. You could "zoom out" a bit to make a larger part of their figures visible so we could see their body language.

Fourth Floor · Post by **Fourth Floor** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:55 am

I'm aware of the problem with the shape, Nutcracker. Don't worry - like I said, I'm going to redesign both of the female characters. It's been on the cards for about a month.

I'd zoom out and change angles and add all kinds of bells and whistles if I wasn't still getting used to drawing the characters. I'm getting more adventurous as I go but I still can't draw the characters without the template yet. I just haven't been doing this for long enough to be able to draw them freehand and considering proportions are so important to everyone, I'm trying to stay consistent.

And funny. Yeah, am I funny? That's a relief. I don't find anything I write funny because I always know the punchline before I start. It really is a huge relief to know I'm getting that part right. You know the guys who visit the site never e-mail me or anything. It's depressing.

Nutcracker · Post by **Nutcracker** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:28 am

Get a tag-board of some sort. People are too lazy to write e-mails.

Fourth Floor wrote:It really is a huge relief to know I'm getting that part right.

And you're not doing anything wrong, we're just telling showing you some tips how to reach perfection. although none of us ever did;p

Fourth Floor · Post by **Fourth Floor** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:32 am

Here's where my ignorance really comes into its own and get's a chance to shine. What's a tag board when it's at home?

By the way, what's this jive above my avatar? I know something you don't, apparently. Last time I posted it said I was digging an escape tunnel out of the box. How does it know me so well?

Nutcracker · Post by **Nutcracker** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:58 am

Fourth Floor wrote:How does it know me so well?

It's magic!

As for tag-boards, I have one on my site (so my fanboys can talk to me), but one guy said he had pop-ups on my site. I don't know how this works but it may be better.

Fourth Floor · Post by **Fourth Floor** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:10 pm

I think shotboxes attract the wrong kind of element.

How desperate am I for feedback from my readers? I still would like to know how the magic box knows what I know that you don't know.

Why am I no longer box fodder? I quite liked the ring that phrase had. Still... knowing something you don't gives me the upper hand.

Wait, scratch that. Now I'm a freakin' lurker. What the hell's a lurker? Who decides these things?!

Nutcracker · Post by **Nutcracker** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:14 pm

Fourth Floor wrote:I think shotboxes attract the wrong kind of element.

No. Really.

Fourth Floor wrote: What the hell's a lurker? Who decides these things?!

Bob.

Wishmaster · Post by **Wishmaster** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:30 pm

I don't know if this is specific to my browser or what but I got double images of the first several strips, one stacked right on top of the other. Other than that, I'm digging the comic - - boobs and all.

Nightgaunt · Post by **Nightgaunt** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:47 pm

Nutcracker wrote:As for tag-boards, I have one on my site (so my fanboys can talk to me), but one guy said he had pop-ups on my site. I don't know how this works but it may be better.

I use Creation Center and I've never had problems

Fourth Floor · Post by **Fourth Floor** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:20 pm

wishmaster wrote:I don't know if this is specific to my browser or what but I got double images of the first several strips, one stacked right on top of the other.

No, this is happening to everyone. This was brought up in Tips and Techniques and I'm afraid that I don't know what's causing those first strips to double up and that I don't know how to fix it. It's really annoying me as well because it does jar when you're reading the archives.

Archives... I knew I'd forgotten something.

Fourth Floor · Post by **Fourth Floor** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:09 am

By the way, guys, my site now has a proper archives page and I'm trying to introduce more motion into the art (which is art in the most generous sense of the word).

http://fourthfloorcomics.comicgenesis.com/archives.htm

Some time next month, it should be, the female characters are getting a re-design after this storyline finishes.

I think those are the main points that were brought up. If there's anything major that needs improving or you'd like to make a new suggestion, let me know either here or via the e-mail feature on my site.

Thanks for all your comments and feedback! You guys are the best... I mean teh best.