Wayfarer wrote: The question of whether or not Jesus was Who He claimed He was is an either/or question. Granted, you've given your view on that - you say He was not.
'Tis true- that is an either/or question. However ,what I was refering to was the idea that either every word Jesus spoke about himself and God is the truth, or else Jesus was either insane or a con artist. I don't think he was either.
However, I would say that the claim to be God and the Son of God, to be the sacrifice for the world's sin, and to be the only way to God, would be on a different order from your general philosophical theory. On this, at least, it can never be, "He was right, or He was wrong, and it's no big deal." Either He was right, and it's a huge deal, or He was wrong, and wrong about claims no ordinary person would make. It would have to be either the biggest lie ever, or insanity. If you believe that He was wrong, and you still want to hold to some of His teachings, the fact remains that those teachings either came from a liar of the highest order or a man who was insane.
To reiterate, he need not be insane to claim that he was the son of God. All people are rather quirky, and prone to their own fits of grandiosity and arrogance. When I was a small child, I though that I was
Homo troodontis, the next stage of human evolution. These little fits of arrogance can happen to anyone at any time in their life. My assumption is and always has been that Jesus was a man- perhaps wiser than most, but still a man. He would therefore be as susceptible to eccentricities and arrogance as anyone else. And I won't even start on the fact that, by this time, cannabis had found its way to Judea.
If you are referring to people on the forum, I just want to reiterate that I'm not writing in anger.
Indeed, but I guarantee that there are people who would be angered by my suggestions that Jesus was a mere man, and an eccentric one at that.
Just a couple of things -
First, you had stated above that you haven't read the Bible. I don't know if you meant that you haven't read the whole Bible, or if you meant that you haven't read much of it at all. However, the model you suggest - that of eccentricity and finally arrogance enough to claim Godhood growing as a result of having gained power - factually does not fit the facts of Jesus' life. The first instance of His having claimed to be God that we know of took place when He was 12 and visited the Temple (Luke 2:49), long before He ever started teaching. His claims of Godhood didn't begin after He started gaining a following; they were there throughout His ministry. In order for a theory like yours to be sound, it would need to be informed by the actual life Jesus lived. You would need to read the Gospels in order to properly evaluate its validity.
Started when he was 12, eh? Who is more arrogant than a child? See again my embarrassing little fit of vanity mentioned above.
Admittedly, I was just hypothesizing; as my knowledge of Jesus' life comes from glimpses of documentaries on the History Channel and second-hand accounts, I apologize for speaking out of ignorance.
However, I will say that the vast majority of leaders throughout history have had some sort of major quirk about their life or personality.
Washington worked for the Revolutionary army for no salary; however, at the end of the war, he submitted a bill to Congress that far exceeded the cost of a salary. He offered to do the same for his pay as president, but was refused; he was so angered that he didn't speak to Congress for weeks afterward. When he was president, Washington insisted on being called His Mightiness, and was sullen when that didn't happen. At one point when he was working on his plantation (he actually went out and worked in the field with his slaves), Washington almost beat a man to death with his bare hands because the man had mistreated one of his slaves (can't really fault Washington on this, myself).
John Adams thought that little devils were constantly spying on him; whenever he wrote letters, he would scrunch over the paper and have his wife put up sheets around him that the devils couldn't see through. Personally, I think this has something to do with his poor experiences as a schoolteacher earlier in life.
Thomas Jefferson, when he was a child, would kill various animals and immediately cut open their bodies to study the circulatory system. After his wife died due to complications in childbirth caused by constant pursuit of Jefferson by British officials, Jefferson spent a long time contemplating suicide. He decided not to kill himself, and instead asked one of his slaves, a 1/4 African woman by the name of Sally Hemings, who happened to be Jefferson's wife's half-sister, to care for his children. He essentially entered into a common law marriage with her; she bore 5 children and was his companion for the rest of his life. When Jefferson became President, he essentially split in two- the wild-eyed revolutionary of his private letters still lived, but existed under the staid statesman that was the President.
Theodore Roosevelt is well known for his love of woodland creatures, especially bears- hence, the 'teddy bear.' Franklin Roosevelt had an almost child-like love of secrets- Truman didn't know about the Manhattan Project until he took office.
Mahatma Gandhi slept
sandwiched between two virgins, although it was apparently completely chaste. Martin Luther King, Jr. was
a plagiarist and an adulterer. JFK was also a know adulturer.
All of these men accomplished great things, despite their eccentricities. They were skilled leaders, and moved much of history forward. That is a fact, and the fact that they were eccentric does not mean that their deeds were any less great, nor does it mean that their words and ideals were any less worthy of consideration. I believe that Jesus should be considered the same way- a great man with great thoughts, despite his eccentricities.
