Snowicet & Squinx

[Sidone]

I have to say, I'm a big fan of Squinx :3 I love how sarcastic he can be, I really appreciate the ability to be both sarcastic and good natured.

I agree, I wanna see how he got together with someone like Snowicet.. seems like an unusual match, one that might have some interesting story to it! Then again the same could be said for a lot of couples in KnKB.. for instance, how did Vic and Dee meet?

[W. Tungsten]

O so many stories! Kat could never begin to explain them all, but we ache to know each and every one. I think that's beauty in a well written plot. Ernest Hemingway went so far as to say that an author should keep as much from the audience as possible. How true do you think that is?

[Sethtriggs]

Not sure really- authors can get encouraging feedback from fans too. So distance shouldn't be so necessary really.

I too am curious as to how a couple squares like Vic and Dee could even get the wherewithall to meet. Hehehe...

-Seth

[BarkleyTDog]

I too am curious as to how a couple squares like Vic and Dee could even get the wherewithall to meet. Hehehe...

Or even better... Why did they decide to live in Yiffburg?

[W. Tungsten]

Is carefully conserved plot necessarily distance from the reader? Could it even bring the reader closer to the heart of the story? Do you think it can be engaging or satisfying to leave some explanations to inference or interpretation? Is having ambiguity destructive to a story's effectiveness? What about this comic specifically?

MAN! I likes discussion! I'm always so anxious to see what people have to say. Kat, if you want to take a stab at any of these questions, I am extremely interested in hearing your philosophy. Thanks, Seth, for responding!

And now, males and females, it is time for yet another W. Tungsten... RANDOM ANALISYS!!!! *echo* What are my thoughts on my own question? How does it relate to Kit 'n Kay Boodle?

Feel free to ignore anything after this point.

"Ernest Hemingway went so far as to say that an author should keep as much from the audience as possible. How true do you think that is?"

Well, first of all, that depends on what is meant by "as much as possible". I mean, how much is too much? There definitely comes a point where a lack of information is soon followed by a lack of interest, but part of what we love about reading and writing is how it's an exercise for the imagination; both our own and the author's as well. Bill Viola, a contemporary fine artist specializing in video instillations, said "you have to be just as creative to view a work of art and appreciate a work of art as you do to make it". I, for one, agree whole-heartedly! There may be no end to the number of ways we can interpret an artist's work, and those interpretations can be every bit as creative as the artist was in creating the work. (Is there such thing as a misinterpretation?) This same concept can easily be applied to the art of writing, where "viewing" becomes "reading". How much better for comics! The marriage of the two! Kat puts a lot of effort into giving us, not only what we want, but what he wants to submit to us--things he wants to share. Things like what he believes in, what he denounces, what his morals are, what his fears are, what he believes love and sexuality to be, what he believes freedom to be, how love, sexuality, and freedom are related... These are all elements of himself that he puts into his comic as bright colors and clever words for our enjoyment. But does he come right out and tell us his opinions? Sometimes perhaps (in the case of Kat comics), but not usually. Usually he tells us through his characters (like Kit and Kay) and their situations and his apparent sympathy toward them. We have to figure it out! That is what makes this comic so engaging. Even if we're just along for the ride, we can't help but glean a lesson from his every story.

But even with all that he shows us, we always want to know more! "How did these characters meet?" "Why did this character do that?" "Tell us more about boinkberry wine!" Here we stand, completely intrigued by what we DON'T know about this world Kat has created for Kit n' Kay. What he has shown us in his stories leads us to believe that there is actually more to this world than what we can see through the various windows he draws for us. It's a tease. Part of it may be the impossibility for a mind to create every single fiber of a fictional world; but a lot of it is that leaving these things up in the air makes us look that much closer at what is actually in front of us. We see more when we're given less! Obviously, we can't be starved, but many things have no particular bearing on the main plot and can be left pretty much to inference or the interpretation of the reader. Like little "Tom Bombadils" of Yiffburg, these things play their part in the story and leave as more-or-less mysteries. Take for example the pig-man who posed "no threat" to the murderous dictator dethroned by the efforts of Kit n' Kay. We never really learned much about him. I mean, all we really knew was that he had a sunny, kind disposition and some kind of loose former connection to the dictatorship (forgive me, I'm at school and cannot go back to reference exactly). None the less, we felt on him an innocence and neutrality that fired in us a horror and rage when he was murdered in front of our eyes. After that, I thought a lot about what that man's past might have been. Why was he "no threat", and how if at all might he have played a part in the plans of the "Gods of Yiff"? What was his actual connection to the goings on? Truth be told, it doesn't really matter. That character didn't raise any contradictions or implausibilities that couldn't be overcome by reasoning, but became very interesting. The end result: the effectiveness of that character was brought through in the end despite our limited knowledge of him. Would it have been more effective had we known more background of that character? More than anything, I think it would have been distracting from the main focus of the episode. To me, that shows mature choices are being made on the part of the author.

Conversely, I believe too much can be kept from the reader. While I find next to no examples in KatElliss' work, it is obvious that this can happen in all kinds of narrative writing. Having a main character act out of character or introducing a major plot element that contradicts precedence without a valid reason are examples of FLAWS made by a lack of information on an authors part. Even if there is a good reason for the authors choices, if they are never pointed out anywhere in the story, it only serves to make the story jarring and discontinuous. In this way, ambiguity is detrimental to a story line. Things like that go beyond "as much as possible", and should be avoided "as much as possible".

[Now, the first thing you might think is that I am directly attacking Kat here for having Kit yiff the Vixen. Let me banish that notion straight away by saying directly that I in no way view that as a flaw. In fact, it is an example of a much more effective form of ambiguity known as "suspense." I misinterpreted the nature of Kit n' Kay's mutuality, so any fault was mine. (Answer to my parenthetical question in the first paragraph?)]

In conclusion, this post is way too long. Thank you for making it all the way down to the last line, and I look forward to hearing your responses. ^_^d


After thought: What do you see as being the difference between inference and inturpretation?

[Sidone]

I too am curious as to how a couple squares like Vic and Dee could even get the wherewithall to meet. Hehehe...

Or even better... Why did they decide to live in Yiffburg?

Yes, exactly! Curious minds want to know! X3


As for the issue of whether as much as possible should be left out of a work? I'm not really sure...
Sometimes I like it when a story is fully fledged out and the characters have a little more history (Though I'm talking about novels here - it's a little easier to do this in a book than in a webcomic/any comic.. I feel like you have less wiggle room for tangent sidestories in a comic when you have to draw it all out, especially when installments come one at a time. You usually dont want to bore the readers or leave your main plot hanging for months at a time), but then again sometimes things are more fun when left to the imagination.

It reminds me of Harry Potter.. for instance (forgive me those who havent read the books! No spoilers though) the character Dean Thomas., Rowling designed a whole backstory to him but never found a place to incoperate it into the main story. I think the fact it exists is really cool and I'd love to hear it, but not at the expense of the work itself.. To be able to know his story, for me, gives me a more rounded view of him to be able to see him as a real person more easily, as well as get an idea of how Rowling herself thinks of him so I can understand his actions better.
Of course, its not critical to enjoying HP that I know these things Its just a passing curiousity that I'd enjoy looking into, but of course the books are wonderful without it - especially if throwing in the story would strain the flow of the plot.

Now.. how this applies to KnKB? :3 I wonder in passing about these kinds of things, and to know them would make the characters seem more real and rounded to me outside of being the "misguided couple who come to a realization", but it doesnt affect how I enjoy the comics about them and doesnt detract from it. If the comic would suffer to include this story, then fuggadaboudit ;3 I dont need to know.
Perhaps a little sidenote from the artist would satisfy the curiosity, should it happen to sneak its way into the forums or the site somewhere :3 If not, I'm content to come up with my own ideas, or let it slide!

[W. Tungsten]

What great points! I hadn't even considered the fact the this is a semiweekly narrative comic. That presents unique challenges, doesn't it? Like you said, a side-story, even a short one, would take weeks or even months to tell. (The current episode an example?). That intrigues me, though. How much more careful does that make our comic's decisions? Probably very careful. I wish I could thumb through the archives real quick for some more examples, but I can't. In any case, I think that we should really look hard at the point of this side story. There could be any number of them.

Also, I think yours is a valid criticism as well, assuming this couple did not make any previous appearances (again, I can't reference). But I also think that you were spot on by pointing out that the particularities don't really matter so much here. In fact, I wrote a response to what I see as being at least a main point of this side-story, and it doesn't rely on story we aren't given. The message was clear and effective even though we don't have a lot of information about the journalist couple. Now, if they were to eventually become more integral to the main plot, I would expect a little more insight on their psyche (not even necessarily their past). As it stands, they may be ambiguous, but I think their purpose is well played.

Maybe the journalist couple would have been a better example for me to have used for effective ambiguity in Kit n' Kay Boodle than the murdered pig-man, but the couple may still be a little too current to really apply: anything can happen yet.

Oh! And yes, I've heard of Dean Thomas! That's very interesting that you brought it up because it's a fine example of what I tried to point to earlier. Still, though, I think my favorite example is Tom Bombadil from The Fellowship of the Ring. Tom is a short, care-free, and almost omnipotent being who wears, yellow boots, a blue coat, and has a feather sticking in his hat; Frodo and the other hobbits meet him in the middle of the Old Forest on their way to the Green Dragon where they met Strider (Aragorn). Many people have written essays--scholarly essays--dedicated to Tom Bombadil's importance to the story (or lack there of). While Tolkien did say that he served to bring elements to the story that wouldn't be there without him, my favorite comment of Tolkien's was that "even in a mythological Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one [intentionally]." I'm still sad that Tom wasn't in the movie (not even the extended version!), but now that I think about it, he was so random and mysterious, it would have been ridiculous to include him for people who hadn't read the book. Still, he remains one of my absolute favorite characters of any novel. Why? Because he made no sense, but perfect sense and intrigued me so much that my imagination still wanders to it even years after reading the book. Has anyone here read The Fellowship of the Ring? If you have you know exactly what I'm talking about. 8)

I think we as readers of KatEllis's comic are extremely lucky in that we have the almost unheard of fortune of enjoying direct contact with the author (via this forum). It's one of my favorite things about Keenspace. That's something we would just have to lie in our beds and dream about if we bought something like this off the rack. Here, we actually DO have the ability to ask the author little questions of our own. I've yet to really want him to answer any of my direct questions about the plot, but I think his insights are really helpful for our own interpretations! In this context, he can choose to ignore or engage questions as he sees fit, but is generous enough to answer as many as he can. Kat is good that way. Still, "how much is too much?" I guess in the end, that's not even up for me to decide. KatEllis is the music maker. Personally, I still hold that a reserved and careful stance on the evolution of story elements can be very engaging. Bringing Lord of the Rings back as an example, we are still analyzing it for it's depth and complexity as many issues, including Tom Bombadil, are still being debated. In spite of the ambiguity, Tolkien is now a classic author and has written a classic novel (Debatable?). Unlike Tolkien (not that I'm compairing the two), Kat has the task of moving things along in semiweekly installments one page at a time. That must certainly add to his pressure, as you mentioned, but I believe it also adds to the carefulness of his literary choices.

[Sidone]

What great points! I hadn't even considered the fact the this is a semiweekly narrative comic.

Thank you! ^^ Its only because you got me thinking

Still, though, I think my favorite example is Tom Bombadil from The Fellowship of the Ring. Tom is a short, care-free, and almost omnipotent being who wears, yellow boots, a blue coat, and has a feather sticking in his hat; Frodo and the other hobbits meet him in the middle of the Old Forest on their way to the Green Dragon where they met Strider (Aragorn).

Oh goodness, the talks I used to have with my dad about Tom Bombadil! That really makes me nostalgic. (it was probably only 5 years ago, but thats more than a fourth of my life already!) I really liked hearing you mention him, I know exactly what you mean by bringing him up. From that perspective, I definitely would prefer an explanation of who he is to be left out.. though reading what people THINK he is is very interesting. I really should sit down and reread that book, especially in the wake of the phenomena of the movies..
I do remember my dad mentioning he was glad Tom didnt make an appearance in the movies, and I guess thats true. To display him on the screen would probably make him seem more human, or more like just a normal guy, than I'd like to see him as being.

I think we as readers of KatEllis's comic are extremely lucky in that we have the almost unheard of fortune of enjoying direct contact with the author (via this forum).

I think this was one of the biggest reasons I wanted to speak up a bit more lately. :3 Not only is the community extremely pleasant, being able to connect with the artist is a pleasure!

Oops.. very long responses for such a newbie X3; Forgive me..

[W. Tungsten]

More great thoughts! And I'm so thrilled to hear how you relate to ol' Tombi Bombi! ^^ You're proabably right, too: had they put him in the movie, I'd've probably just been disapointed with how it turned out. ^^; Nobody can live up to our imaginations!

Oops.. very long responses for such a newbie X3; Forgive me..

Oh heavens... If they didn't shun me forever for my first post, you're sittin' pretty. (Consiceness has never been my strong point.) Besides, I'm a newb, too. I didn't even have the foresight to open a "H'lo" thread for myself like I probably should have; I just kind of dived in like I'd been here for months and tagged on concessional "by the way, I'm new." Thank goodness you guys are receptive! I'm so clueless sometimes to forum etiquette... I think you did it the right way, Sidone (and without the flagrant spelling errors).

[KatEllis]

Kat could never begin to explain them all, but we ache to know each and every one. I think that's beauty in a well written plot. Ernest Hemingway went so far as to say that an author should keep as much from the audience as possible.

One of my very real problems is not in keeping things from my audience,
but in realizing that I have to budget my time and efforts, and so am
forced into a degree of economy in my comic stories. If I had the means,
the freedom from other obligations and the technical resources, I would
be at my drawing board practically all day and night spinning tales for my
readers. I would be more than happy to give them *all* the details of *all*
my characters and let them have as full an access to my Yiffburg space/
time continuum as I have. But I can't do that, as much as I'd like to, so
I try to put as much quality into each story as I can, and give the readers
as much insight into the characters as long as they are "on stage" so to
speak.

I think we as readers of KatEllis's comic are extremely lucky in that we have the almost unheard of fortune of enjoying direct contact with the author (via this forum). It's one of my favorite things about Keenspace. That's something we would just have to lie in our beds and dream about if we bought something like this off the rack. Here, we actually DO have the ability to ask the author little questions of our own. I've yet to really want him to answer any of my direct questions about the plot, but I think his insights are really helpful for our own interpretations! In this context, he can choose to ignore or engage questions as he sees fit, but is generous enough to answer as many as he can. Kat is good that way.

What makes it doubly wondrous is that this very aspect of webcomics that
is a favorite of yours, is an absolute staple for the creative health of
the average webcomic artist! There are a lot of factors that go into the
crafting of this (relatively) new media, but the one that can be a make-
or-break factor for the artists is knowing that (1) people ARE checking out
their work, and (2) they are getting out of it what was put into it. The
financial rewards for a webcomic, unless you have a runaway hit on your
hands, are quite measely. Keenspace/ComicGen pays for the hosting, so
that's a few bucks that don't come out of the artist's pocket - but after that
you better have something that is mainstream enough, and/or one that
you want to change in whatever way necessary to make it mainstream
enough if it isn't, to be promoted to Keenspot. If you don't, there are a
few other avenues of revenue you can nudge at, but mostly it's going to
be the love of storytelling that brings you back to the drawing board
over and over again. Knowing that your readers are out there, and being
allowed to read their comments, is the very stuff of satisfaction itself for
anyone in this field. (I've met more than a few, and it's true for ALL of
them.) Too many webcomics fall by the wayside; you readers can pat
yourselves on the back for being a major reason that the ones that haven't
fallen keep going. ^_^

I have to say, I'm a big fan of Squinx :3 I love how sarcastic he can be, I really appreciate the ability to be both sarcastic and good natured.

He has a wise-guy attitude that, one day when I relate the story of how
he and Snowicet met, you'll find out the why and how of.

I agree, I wanna see how he got together with someone like Snowicet.. seems like an unusual match, one that might have some interesting story to it! Then again the same could be said for a lot of couples in KnKB.. for instance, how did Vic and Dee meet?

That's another future story I've planned on telling. *sigh* Why are there
only 24 hours in a day? O_o

[Silvianraccoon]

Yeah well, it