OT: Prayers for New Orleans

Luna_Northcat · Post by **Luna_Northcat** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:19 am

The news from there seems to be going from bad to worse. Prayers and support for the poor folks along Biloxi way, too, would probably be appreciated.

Has anyone from the forum been caught by that storm?

Tbolt · Post by **Tbolt** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:33 am

Local christian radio station here in the 'burgh has been taking up collections to send supplied to the stricken areas. I've sent my two bits. If anyone is in a position to help, please do so. Now is the time for us americans to help OUR neighbors. Everyone else, please pray...

Somber Cat · Post by **Somber Cat** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:09 am

What a mess. IT's going to be years before New Orleans recovers, if it ever does. I've heard nasty speculation of what it would cost to rebuild verses what it would cost to cut every one a check and tell them to go some where else. Still, I have hope in human nature, or in spite of it, that we'll rebuild.... hopefully twelve to fifteen feet higher.

"What a market opportunety for land fill."

Somber

Shyal_malkes · Post by **Shyal_malkes** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:56 am

isn't new orleans like near the ocean but still below sealevel? I've often wondered how that was even possible

sometimes I wonder how bad things have to get before people just say "enough, I'm moving to canada where the worst that can happen is the bears will eat me!"

ah, but we are a stubborn people, considering what I've gone through to live where I am, I'd have a pretty hard time leaving it all behind as well.

I hope things get better for them. well, here's hoping that they can clean up the mess faster then they origionally predicted (people do that too you know)

Mwalimu · Post by **Mwalimu** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:03 am

shyal_malkes wrote:isn't new orleans like near the ocean but still below sealevel? I've often wondered how that was even possible \

I believe it is due to subsidence.

Earl McClaw · Post by **Earl McClaw** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:25 pm

mwalimu wrote:
shyal_malkes wrote:isn't new orleans like near the ocean but still below sealevel? I've often wondered how that was even possible \
I believe it is due to subsidence.

I believe you're right.

As for how, well, when the city was begun, it was on a slightly dryer portion of a delta that had been forming for thousands of years. The Mississippi dragged soil down the river, and when it had to slow down on hitting the ocean, all that silt, clay, and sand dropped out, forming the delta.

Then humans came along and wanted to send ships up that long river. They got annoyed with all the sand bars and junk in the river (which helped the water slow down), so they started dredging. The water ran faster, and didn't dump it's load until it was farther into the Gulf.

So as the land began to sink, or maybe just to hold back the occassional flood or high tide, they started building levees. These ended up like the dykes in the Netherlands, and the city streets wound up below sea level.

Venice (Italy) has had a similar problem, but no hurricanes to dump on them.

Somber Cat · Post by **Somber Cat** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:04 pm

It's also a natural occurance. The entire region is slowly sinking constantly, with bedrock more than a thousand feet below. Like any water saturated pile of dirt, a little pressure and the whole thing starts moving downward. In order to combat this, the largest buildings in New Orleans have to sink layer after layer of pilings and earthfill to create a stable foundation. So far there is five ideas for what to do with reconstruction.

Plan A: restore the levees, pump out the water, and get rebuilding. Expedient and relatively low cost, but puts the risk back on the table.

Plan B: Same as A, but also Reinforce and build a system of walls and emergency dikes so that if there is ever a breach the damage will be localized.

Plan C: Landfill. This is much more costly, both in time and money. It means raising the city back above sealevel, then rebuilding. The perks is that New Orleans gets the opportunety to lay down extensive water and sewer infrastructure that is difficult to do over large areas. No dikes to breach... for the next hundred years.

Plan

Landfill plus. The clostliest idea involves creating a "Citywide foundation" Much like construction for other superheavy structures like the Tokyo city airport, the ground is not only raised but reinforced with concrete and polymer injection to create a uniform layer. Downsides are time, money, and no guarentee that the whole city won't sink uniformly. Still there are civi and geological engineers who believe the city would float on the compressive earth far better.

Plan E: Mega landfill. Plan D but with reinforcement going all the way down to the bedrock. No more sinking, period. Extremely expensive and time intensive and may be overkill. Still, it would be a long term solution.

My predictions, Plan A or B. With so much social disruption the only way that plans C,D, or E would be possible would be to make rebuilding New Orleans a national priority on the level of the new deal. A large scale work project. But seeing as how we can't rebuild the WTC in 4 years I don't see it happening. (btw, the north tower took 4 years to build, including time for demolishing existing buildings and building the foundation. The South tower took 6 years.)

"Bad day for Nawlins."

Somber

StrangeWulf13 · Post by **StrangeWulf13** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:48 pm

Having a girlfriend who lived in New Orleans puts this in perspective for me. She's safe, along with her family, but they lost everything. Their house is under 15 feet of water. (Upside is that she gets a new car out of the deal. =P)

Usually, these disasters don't touch me as much. It happens "over there", not here, so I'm disconnected from the reality, the horror of what goes on. I felt a little guilty that I didn't feel more sorrow for the victims of 9/11. But it was in New York, y'know? Not here. And the tsunami that hit India, and all those countries, that didn't affect me that much. It wasn't here.

Suddenly, having a loved in the path of danger brings it all that closer to home.

They evacuated. They're safe. But they lost everything.

*sigh* It has put a severe damper on my mood as of late. I can't help but worry a little bit. They're safe, but... well, I don't know what's going to happen to them. I hope they can find a safe place to rebuild and maybe get on with their lives.

All I can do is hope and pray. Even when I feel like jumping in my car and driving down to help.

Somebody, pray for us. Times are gonna be tough for me and my girl. Might not even get to see her as often. We'll get through it, but it's gonna be rough.

God help me, I just wish I knew what to do...

Somber Cat · Post by **Somber Cat** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:44 pm

If you can donate money, even a little, donate it. There's no lack of need and if you're a real stickler about where your cash goes, most charities have donation options that they are required by law to follow, sending your money where you want it to go. If you can't donate money, but have goods, go to your city hall and see if they are organizing a collection of some sort. If they're not, and you can donate time, then organize it yourself with your city. If you can't donate time, money, or goods then donate your emotions to your girlfriend and her family in this time of need. If you can't donate any of that, you can always pray.

"Better than nothing."

Somber

Luna_Northcat · Post by **Luna_Northcat** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:46 pm

There's another donation you can make: blood. The hospitals down that way are in bad shape, and the Red Cross is shipping in blood donations.

SolidusRaccoon · Post by **SolidusRaccoon** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:46 am

Given the scale of destruction the total loss of life has still thankfully been very low, compared to the worst case scenarios. Still we should also face reality, the city is gone; it is now Lake New Orleans. The city is below sea level it is sitting in a depression that continues to sink. What has happened is not big surprise, many of been expecting it for years. I think it would be very foolish to rebuild the city in the same location. All it would take is another hurricane like Katrina and we would be in the same place all over again. They should declare the city a lost cause and have a total evacuation, then come in and just clean everything out. This isn

RHJunior · Post by **RHJunior** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:15 am

One wonders if they'll build another New Orleans elsewhere.

SolidusRaccoon · Post by **SolidusRaccoon** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:55 am

RHJunior wrote:One wonders if they'll build another New Orleans elsewhere.

New New Orleans?

Labrusca · Post by **Labrusca** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:49 am

New Orleans has been having terrible problems with Formosan termites. Looks like the city just got THAT problem solved. Maybe a new city would have been needed anyway.

SolidusRaccoon · Post by **SolidusRaccoon** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:10 am

Well, now the otters have a city of their own, if they can get there fast enough.

RDB · Post by **RDB** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:21 am

Somber Cat wrote:"What a market [opportunity] for land fill."

Where/how do you bury an entire city?

I was going to reference Hiroshima, but most of that was burned up and they just had to bury the bricks

Ron, wondering which will have the greatest long-term national consequences: this, or 9/11?

The JAM · Post by **The JAM** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:45 am

New Orleans

Labrusca · Post by **Labrusca** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:45 am

I have faith in America. The real people of America are at our best when something like this happens. Of course I'm also a cynic about the left trying to blame this on Bush somehow.

SolidusRaccoon · Post by **SolidusRaccoon** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:17 am

labrusca wrote:I have faith in America. The real people of America are at our best when something like this happens. Of course I'm also a cynic about the left trying to blame this on Bush somehow.

Well let us see.

1. Global Waming caused the storm, if Bush had signed the Holy Kyoto treaty, global warming would have been eliminate that instant.

2. National Guard, if they all were here they would have saved the city.

and many more.

RDB · Post by **RDB** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:21 am

SolidusRaccoon wrote:
labrusca wrote:I'm also a cynic about the left trying to blame this on Bush somehow.
Well let us see.

1. Global Waming caused the storm, if Bush had signed the Holy Kyoto treaty, global warming would have been [eliminated] that instant.

2. National Guard, if they all were here they would have saved the city.

and many more.

They're at it on rec.arts.tv, among other places; another one is:

3. If they had paid for the upgrades to the levees that the Army CoE supposedly asked for, they would've been able to survive a Cat. 5 hurricane...

Ron