Place your bets - June 16

[CasVeg]

You'd never know it was Quentyn except for his eyes.


Concerning gambling:

- Never play a game that you can't consistently win.
- Never play a game with someone you don't know.
- Never play a game away from familiar ground.

Quentyn is wise not to take a bet in these circumstances.

[Tbolt]

Guess that takes into account:

There's always someone better than you...

[Squeaky Bunny]

Also: Don't play unless you can give the game your total attention.

[Kerry Skydancer]

'Open Traders'? Sounds like someone's advocating opening up to the outside world. Wonder if they're this world's version of the idiots who can't believe anyone really hates you without a good reason, or if it's just a slogan covering up socialism?

[KeeCoyote]

If its trade then its capitlism . They is thinking there more ways to make money out ther. and of course if they recyclying there metal ,it means their mines might be running low.

[Nikas_Zekeval]

You'd never know it was Quentyn except for his eyes.


Concerning gambling:

- Never play a game that you can't consistently win.
- Never play a game with someone you don't know.
- Never play a game away from familiar ground.

Quentyn is wise not to take a bet in these circumstances.

I prefer these three rules to insure profit in gambling.
- Don't bet unless the game is fixed
- And you are in on the fix
- And everyone else in on the fix owes you.

[Shyal_malkes]

i don't think it is fair to judge too quickly judge what the "open traders" are all about, remember the 7 villages are isolated, i know that in the US we had a period of isolation, but people have short memories, especially when dealing with history, i hate it when a show that is only 5 years old is called old and outdated and i still love it.

the fear that drove the rac cona to isolation is one that is as foreign to me as a US citizen as the rac cona themselves are.

we are the US! the power-house of the world economy, the "big brother" of the world at large, even if some don't agree with our tactics, we are in general right in the end because we've got democracy, which is the very best system of government that reality has to offer.

like i said, such fear is generally pretty foreign to us, the open traders may make perfect sense to us, but to the rac cona could seem pretty far out there.

i like the whole "what the questors said" thing quentyn keeps doing, i have heard (so i can't textually substiantiate it)

"a wise person will learn from experience, a super wise person will learn from others' experiences"

[Shyal_malkes]

i don't think it is fair to judge too quickly judge what the "open traders" are all about, remember the 7 villages are isolated, i know that in the US we had a period of isolation, but people have short memories, especially when dealing with history, i hate it when a show that is only 5 years old is called old and outdated and i still love it.

the fear that drove the rac cona to isolation is one that is as foreign to me as a US citizen as the rac cona themselves are.

we are the US! the power-house of the world economy, the "big brother" of the world at large, even if some don't agree with our tactics, we are in general right in the end because we've got democracy, which is the very best system of government that reality has to offer.

like i said, such fear is generally pretty foreign to us, the open traders may make perfect sense to us, but to the rac cona could seem pretty far out there.

i like the whole "what the questors said" thing quentyn keeps doing, i have heard (so i can't textually substiantiate it)

"a wise person will learn from experience, a super wise person will learn from others' experiences"

[SolidusRaccoon]

Well actually free and open trade would be the best thing to open up long term relations between he Racs and Humans. The Racs have a supply of lux enhanced artifacts, but lack metals. The humans have a supply of metals and lack the lux enhanced artifacts. It would be done in secret at first, maybe the Racs will only deal with a small group of no more than 5 humans. The humans will be sworn to secrecy, or they will wear special lux rings that will make it impossible for them to

[DracoDei]

Those rings would almost certainly be FAR outside of the mind control abilities of Lux. Intellegent beings are almost impossible to control, and I think altering memory would be at least equally impossible.
Also remember that most humans consider Lux to be "Witchcraft".

[SolidusRaccoon]

Those rings would almost certainly be FAR outside of the mind control abilities of Lux. Intellegent beings are almost impossible to control, and I think altering memory would be at least equally impossible.
Also remember that most humans consider Lux to be "Witchcraft".

not mind control, a key for a post hypnotic suggestion.

[Shyal_malkes]

Also remember that most humans consider Lux to be "Witchcraft

back when england was expanding in colonies, it had a trading company that took up it's main base in india so it oculd trade easily in china. mostly they traded for tea, until the company got curious and started asking for a tea plant, not wanting to lose it's assets and monopoly china put a death penalty on anyone that told the company what a tea plant looked like.

well, if you offer enough money, will you eventually find someone willing to break the law to get that money? the trading company did and found that one of the annoying weeds they had been trying to clear out was in fact a form of tea plant that they had been trading with china for!

witchcraft or not, offer someone enough money and they'll bite into it.

that and don't forget that not all humans are mean/evil toward the rac cona, at least one was civil that it started a whole religion that i believe still runs amongst the rac cona.

<a href="http://npc.keenspace.com/d/20040905.htm ... 05.html</a>

i think it's safe to say, we have not heard the end of this

[SolidusRaccoon]

Also it would start out small, like the anti-dust buttons. Let the humans get used to the concept of Lux, see how it can improve their lives. And maybe a dozen or so generations down the road, formal relations can be established.

[Mikhail Dragoslav]

Well actually free and open trade would be the best thing to open up long term relations between he Racs and Humans. The Racs have a supply of lux enhanced artifacts, but lack metals. The humans have a supply of metals and lack the lux enhanced artifacts...Both sides will profit greatly. The Racs will have a infusion of an abundant supply of metals into their society, enabling great prosperity, and the human businessmen will corner the market of lux items. Capitalism at its finest.

I'm not so sure if that's necessarily true. Historically there have been cases where a group of people occupy a distinct, often necessary, economic niche. It often benefits the society they live in and in the short term, the people occupying that role. But that doesn't mean that the people occupying that niche benefit from it in the long run.

Think of the Jews in Europe. Through circumstance and necessity they occupied a role as money-lenders. It was a necessary profession and so beneficial that many European nobles and monarchs invited Jews into their kingdoms. But their role also caused resentment and bitterness at "Jewish usury" and mutterings of Jewish "control" and "blood-sucking."

History is full of these cases where merchants or money-lenders from certain groups would occupy an economic role and become the subject of resentment and later hatred, regardless of their usefulness.

-3,000,000 Armenians, Greeks, and Assyrians killed in the Ottoman Empire from 1894-1925
-6,000,000 Jews were killed between 1939-1945
-10,000,000 ethnic Germans were expelled from Eastern Europe after 1945
-1,250,000 mostly ethnic Chinese victims killed in Indonesia and East Timor from 1965-2004
-55,000 Asians were expelled from Uganda in 1973
-Others face persecution like Muslims in China.

Each group listed played an important economic role in their country and region. No matter how beneficial or necessary their role was, every group I just listed was destroyed or the victims of continued persecution. Their necessity and their economic role became their undoing. It may not have been the only reason why these groups were expelled or exterminated, but the resentment their roles caused helped lead others to despise them and go along with their annihilation.

It's not something that's exists only in history either.

"We considered them [the Jews] bloodsuckers because they took from our community and built their community but didn't offer anything back to our community. And when the Jews left, the Palestinian Arabs came, Koreans came, Vietnamese and other ethnic and racial groups came. And so this is a type and we call them bloodsuckers."
-Louis Farrakhan, 1995.

How long will it be, if trade is opened with humans, before some humans feel that the Rac Cona are dominating or controlling their economies? How long before they try once again to steal lux secrets for themselves? So maybe Open Trade with people who will probably hate you regardless of whether or not they make you rich may not be such a good idea. Greed is a strong emotion, but hatred is even stronger.

[Shyal_malkes]

then start with the dwarves, unless it was that kind of resentment that caused them to stop trading with the rac cona to begin with. or try trading with both and let them sort each other out, or trade with a small band of humans in secret, eventually if the humans 'can' use or create luxcrafted items (very very unlikely) they will learn how on their own.

still i agree that if open trade is to begin, it must do so carefully.

[BlasTech]

Open trade is certainally a minefield, the rac-conan are (justifiably) concerned with the intentions of the outside world, especially after they've been invaded so many times. They'd always be looking over their shoulders to make sure that the humans or whoever else isnt using their traded goods to attack them.

Before its suggested, limiting the power of the goods they trade would also be a bad idea. People receiving them would see it as the rac's holding out on them. Generating alot of resentment and probably leading to hostility against them just like Mikhail said earlier.

Changes could take place too slowly for the humans' patience, or too fast for the rac's collective cautiousness ... it'd be hard (although maybe not impossible) to strike a balance. >.>

[UncleMonty]

It might be easier to trade with a few select humans if the Rac Cona Daimh traders could somehow disguise themselves as human and meet with their counterparts someplace away from their protected homeland. I imagine a small trading outpost, served by luftships, might work.
The humans could be told the trading post was set up by a reclusive human mage. All they'd need would be a few humans who could be fooled into thinking a human mage could exist, and how difficult would that be? Especially if the "mage" was seeking "iron, cold iron" to help battle the EVIL magic in that area...

[DracoDei]

A few points:
First, humans may think that Rac Conan's are much weaker in Lux than they actually are currently. This would be because, aside from the modern day Seven Villages, they are. Which is to say that without the Luxfont and associated lay lines, recharge rates go way down. So, not only wouldn't the Rac Conan Daimh WANT to give more powerful stuff to the humans, in many ways they couldn't even if they wanted to... at least without at least one massive construction project (the Luxfont is a BIG structure).

Secondly, human mages DO exist. They are VERY powerful too. The AVERAGE human mage is probably a match, one on one, for some of the best in Rac Conan Daimh society in terms of raw power and control etc. The Rac's have them on UNDERSTANDING the inner workings of lux and physics, but human mages are intrensically better with lux than Rac Conan Daimh. The thing is that it is a very rare human who CAN manipulate Lux, whereas in Rac Conan Daimh society it is so rare that one CAN'T that it is considered a disability.

[RHJunior]

Human mages (and mages of other races, btw) DO exist.
That's part of the problem.

1)Human mages used to hunt racconans. To exploit as slaves, or worse, to vivisect in their research. This is part of the reason for the "bad blood" between racconans and humans and other races.

2)Human mages are much much rare.... but also much more powerful. This has led to mage-tyrants and other assorted problems. This has contributed to the "bad blood" between mages and non-mages.

3)Luxcraft is a TECHNOLOGY, for which some have an innate gift . However, there is a tremendous schism in scientific understanding between the Racconans and other lux using societies, and non-luxcraft societies. Many of the outside races who use lux or attempt to do so border on the level of medieval alchemists or even flat out "cargo cults" due to their ignorance..... an ignorance encouraged by those covetous of power. It would be like selling lightbulbs in the 1500s--- in Saudi Arabia. You'd have your skull split with a scimitar before you could say "witchcraft." Racconans couldn't AFFORD to keep people ignorant of how lux works..... but it's up to debate how many centuries of relentless educational efforts it would take to get the basic concepts across. Heck, there are still places in the real world where people are accused of casting curses to spoil the milk.

[SolidusRaccoon]

Yes, Ralph. Thats what I was saying. It would take several dozen generations. STart small and simple and work from there.