Keenspace, Sherpa, Drunk Duck vs. independent website

[Arvo]

I'm ready to make my debut with my new strip. I already have an archive of about 50 toons.

I know very little about HTML and have never made a website. I do know how to make GIFs of my toons, but that's about all.

I am trying to decide now how to go about this. I see that you have sites like Keenspace, Comics Sherpa and Drunk Duck, which provide a pre-formatted web page. However, I kind of would like to have a more unique page. And I wonder if it isn't important to have your own URL, in order to be taken seriously (seriously funnily, I mean).

Isn't having a URL with sherpa or keenspace in it, sort of the same as having a geocities web page? I mean, you are taken less seriously with those, both by people and by search engines, I would think. Am I wrong?

I also have no idea how many hits I will get, and how much bandwidth I will need. I don't mind paying a little bit for a host, but don't want to be paying a lot of extra charges if I get too many hits.

How much bandwidth does the average online comic need?

I'd love to find a free or cheap host that will not only provide adequate bandwidth, but will also let me use my own URL. Any recommendations?

Do you think that Keenspace/Sherpa are an advantage to a new comic, or a disadvantage? Will being on those sites result in more people viewing my strip, or fewer?

Will they end up being cheaper and better than going the independent route?

Would love to hear your thoughts.

[Mercury Hat]

You can make your Keenspace page look however you want, the only limit is your knowledge of coding. Keenspace is 100% free, placing the ad code on the top of your HTML pages keeps it that way. A large advantage of Keenspace is the community that comes with it and Keenspace is an excellent place for a new comic. I've also heard good things about Drunk Duck but have no experience with it. I haven't heard of Sherpa.

Bandwidth depends on visitors and brand new comics don't really need to worry about getting an overflow of visitors unless you get a very good link from someone else.

I'm glad I joined Keenspace, the community is really great and I've met a lot of fun people.

[K-Dawg]

Also on Keenspace you can get your own domain name and have that while on Keenspace. So for me I'm soon going from http://angrymonkey.keenspace.com to http://www.angrydmonkey.com

[Mr.Bob]

Drunk duck makes you do drugs, and then sells your soul to the lowest bidder.

[CaptainClaude]

keenspace just makes you do drugs

[Specterz]

Keenspace is a great place to start a new comic, I would think. When you're just starting out, you won't expect a LOT of visitors, unless you get some good promo from someone or something. You can make your page look like whatever you want, depending on how much HTML coding you know. I myself don't know a lot, so I used a pre-made template and tweaked it a bit. I think it looks nice enough though!
I don't really think people take you less seriously with a keenspace account, at least not from what I heard. There are a lot of great comics here, some get a lot of visitors. Sure, there are also some really stinky ones, but they don't get much visits as a result, and I don't think people will compare you with them.
And yes, there's a great community here, I've only just been part of it, but it's a nice place to hang out and talk comics. Or spam.
If you have some bucks to spare, you could buy your own domain, but I don't really know much about that. I'd think it'd be better to start out on a free server though, and see how you like it. It can always be moved.

[Ida]

First of all, I have never heard of Sherpa before, so I can't give you advice on that. That being said, here's my response to teh questions you asked:

I know very little about HTML and have never made a website. I do know how to make GIFs of my toons, but that's about all.

I am trying to decide now how to go about this. I see that you have sites like Keenspace, Comics Sherpa and Drunk Duck, which provide a pre-formatted web page. However, I kind of would like to have a more unique page.

Okay, this is kinda problematic. You don't know how to do HTML, yet you want a unique page - there's really nowhere this is possible, save for Geocities. (They have a WYSIWYG engine) Keenspace gives you a standard page to being with, but to alter it, you need some knowledge of HTML and ftp, and I believe DrunkDuck is the same. A paying host will, as far as I know, not give you any kind of page to start out with - in that case, HTML is even more essential. Also, don't forget that Keenspace has the awesome Autokeen system which updates your comics and creates an archive automatically as long as you upload them to your FTP.

And I wonder if it isn't important to have your own URL, in order to be taken seriously (seriously funnily, I mean). Isn't having a URL with sherpa or keenspace in it, sort of the same as having a geocities web page? I mean, you are taken less seriously with those, both by people and by search engines, I would think. Am I wrong?

Y'know, people around here don't agree with that... A lot of us are actually pretty proud to be 'Spacers, and plenty of good comics are on Keenspace. It's not all Megaman sprites. That being said, the vast majority of readers couldn't care less what your URL is - what matters is your comic! (though perhaps an ad-ladden Geocities site will scare people away...) By the way, I really don't think search engines take anyone 'less seriously' - if people search for your comic (or something insane - I got 'Corset template' this month), your comic will pop up, end of story.

I also have no idea how many hits I will get, and how much bandwidth I will need. I don't mind paying a little bit for a host, but don't want to be paying a lot of extra charges if I get too many hits.

How much bandwidth does the average online comic need?

This depends solely on how many readers you have, which again depends on how much you advertise and of course the quality of your comic. Sudden bandwith increases are one of the dangers of independant comic hosting - you never know quite how much bandwith you'll have to pay for untill your comic has gotten pretty established.

Do you think that Keenspace/Sherpa are an advantage to a new comic, or a disadvantage? Will being on those sites result in more people viewing my strip, or fewer?

Again, I have no clue about Sherpa, but in my opinion, Keenspace is definately an advantage to a new comic. The hosting is free, keeping you safe from sudden increases in bandwith cost, and there's a great and supportive community and some truly awesome admins. We're also certifically insane, which is always a plus. The only 'disadvantage' (since the servers are now very reliable, thanks to the admins), would be the 'Keenspace stigma' you mentioned, which I for one has never run into anywhere - and as said, if your comic is good, no one gives a damn shit where it's hosted.

I'd love to find a free or cheap host that will not only provide adequate bandwidth, but will also let me use my own URL. Any recommendations?

I this you know what I'm going to say: Keenspace. The service and bandwith is free, you get Autokeen, plenty of community and promotion options (e.g. the newsbox), and if you really want your own domain, you can buy one cheaply and have it point to your keenspace site, and no one will even know that you're hosted on keenspace, unless they check the 'fine print'. Really, the only drawbacks about this option is that you have to have the adbanner on the top of your pages - but it's much prettier and less annoying than a Geocities banner, and if you went independant you'd most likely have ads to pay for the bandwith anyway.

... I think I should consider a job in advertizing.

[Specterz]

I think Keenspace should rent you to advertise for them on tv!

[Ida]

... where do I sign? 8)

[Tangho]

If you don't know html, use some WYSIWYG website building program.
I have my comic site for over 8 years and to this day, I still only have limited html skill. I use Adobe Pagemill 3, which is a very outdated program. I am sure the more recent software can do much more including PHP support, Shockwave, mouse-over-glow and so on.

Ps. You said you have 50 'Toons'... Please don't call web comic 'TOONS'
It made you sound like someone who know nothing about webcomic

[Tangent]

Nvu has a free WYSIWYG program for non-commercial use (I believe webcomics would constitute as non-commercial, at least initially). You can find it here: http://www.nvu.com/

As for which program to use, the benefit to Keenspace is that it's free. (I think you can purchase more bandwidth, an actual URL, and some other niceties for a yearly fee through Keenspace as well, but I only remember hearing about that a year or so ago and don't know the specifics about it or if that system is still up and running.) You can always have your own URL to get to the site, which is advantageous if you later switch to a different company; people won't get lost in the shuffle.

[Ida]

I don't think you can buy more bandwith for Keenspace, for the simple reason that the bandwidth is unlimited.

[RemusShepherd]

I'm ready to make my debut with my new strip. I already have an archive of about 50 toons.
(...)
I am trying to decide now how to go about this.

I went through the same decision process when looking for a site, myself.

I know very little about HTML and have never made a website. I do know how to make GIFs of my toons, but that's about all.
(...)
I see that you have sites like Keenspace, Comics Sherpa and Drunk Duck, which provide a pre-formatted web page. However, I kind of would like to have a more unique page.

If you want a unique page but can't do it yourself, you have a problem. You would need a partner/employee/slave who is a programmer, or a good HTML editor program. If you don't have that, then your only real choice is to use a simple (not necessarily pre-made) webpage.

Keenspace gives you a pre-made page template, but you don't have to use it. Keenspace webpages can be anything you want to make them into, as long as you have the ad at the top and the disclaimer at the bottom. But this is also true for every webcomic service, as far as I know.

And I wonder if it isn't important to have your own URL, in order to be taken seriously (seriously funnily, I mean).

You can get your own URL and have it pointed to your Keenspace site.

I also have no idea how many hits I will get, and how much bandwidth I will need. I don't mind paying a little bit for a host, but don't want to be paying a lot of extra charges if I get too many hits.

How much bandwidth does the average online comic need?

The average comic needs very little bandwidth. But if you become popular, the bandwidth charges can rack up quickly. I had a thing I did linked to Blue's News (a moderately popular game site) for just one day, and the bandwidth skyrocketed.

Bandwidth on Keenspace (and most free hosts like Drunk Duck and Jelly Creations) is unlimited.

Will they end up being cheaper and better than going the independent route?

Cheaper, absolutely. Better? That depends on your criteria. You need to weigh other factors.

How much do you care about outages? (Keenspace has day-long outages maybe once or twice a year; Drunk Duck has had frequent week-long outages. Your own site might have outages that last as long as it takes for you to call the host up and berate them into motion.)

Are you in this for the long haul, or for the short-term? (A short-lived comic will disappear from the net if it has its own host. A Keenspace comic is up for years after it has been completed or abandoned.)

Are you 'good enough' for sites that accept people based on quality? (Keenspace has quality criteria for the first comic, but they're set very low. Some sites have stricter rules, and some others have none.)

If you're worried about people looking down on Keenspace comics, I think that's a very minor concern. 99.99% of your popularity (or lack of) will be due to your comic, not from the comics with which you associate.

[Arvo]

Wow! So many replies. Well, I'm convinced! The fact that you can get your own independent URL was the clincher.

Thank you all for being so helpful.

I actually do have Nvu, but have only used it to produce text documents. I think I will be able to figure out how to do a comic site, however.

Well, I do have one more question. I expect my strip will be nasty and controversial at times. (not now, now it's sweet and innocent. But my future plans are for it to get kind of evil). I mean, the characters might do some anti-social things that wouldn't be appreciated by your average churchgoer, you know, the kind of person that mainstream syndicated strips are targeted at. Are controversial strips okay here or will I get my ass kicked off?

[Beyonder_alpha]

Wow! So many replies. Well, I'm convinced! The fact that you can get your own independent URL was the clincher.

Thank you all for being so helpful.

I actually do have Nvu, but have only used it to produce text documents. I think I will be able to figure out how to do a comic site, however.

Well, I do have one more question. I expect my strip will be nasty and controversial at times. (not now, now it's sweet and innocent. But my future plans are for it to get kind of evil). I mean, the characters might do some anti-social things that wouldn't be appreciated by your average churchgoer, you know, the kind of person that mainstream syndicated strips are targeted at. Are controversial strips okay here or will I get my ass kicked off?

1 word: Ghastly.
2 words: Ghastly.

[Arvo]

Ps. You said you have 50 'Toons'... Please don't call web comic 'TOONS'
It made you sound like someone who know nothing about webcomic

Is "toons" really an unacceptable word for comic strip? I know that many people think it only refers to moving cartoons but it's been used also to describe comics. We had a big discussion about this on rec.comics

I would really like to know if everyone hates "toons" because I was thinking about maybe using that word as part of my URL.

Arvo

[Mr.Bob]

You can call it whatever you like!

[Specterz]

Yes he can call it whatever he likes. However, if he calls it "HitlerRulezComix", no one is going to like it.

[Ida]

Oh dear god, don't start the Toon/Webcomic Space discussion again.

[RemusShepherd]

Well, I do have one more question. I expect my strip will be nasty and controversial at times. (not now, now it's sweet and innocent. But my future plans are for it to get kind of evil). I mean, the characters might do some anti-social things that wouldn't be appreciated by your average churchgoer, you know, the kind of person that mainstream syndicated strips are targeted at. Are controversial strips okay here or will I get my ass kicked off?

The characters in my comic strip have or will:

Rape horses
Rape tentacle demons
Commit murder
Commit deicide
Incite mass riots
Plot the overthrow of the US government
Plot to nuke New York City

And those are the *heroes*.

I'm sure there are limits, but in general, if it's within 'free speech' limitations I think it's okay for Keenspace. (I'm a little worried about that 'overthrow' thing, myself.)

Ghastly's comic is an extreme case. But it's so extreme that he has a special exception from Keen, so I don't think you can safely take him as an example of where the limits are.