I hate the Grammys (and the Oscars too, come to think of it)

[The Neko]

I take the Simpsons view of the Grammy's.

As for American Dad, I don't think one should judge it like one does with Family Guy. They're separate entities, really. I enjoyed it.

[Van Douchebag]

And punk is no longer about "rejecting" or embracing anything. It's just another genre.

I can't believe you said that. I can't believe you just fucking said that.

If you honestly believe that, you're no better than the dumb bitches that subscribe to Britney Spears. That kind of attitude you have is what record companies and clueless suits come up with as a means to distribute and exploit the punk rock genre.

Punk is about social rebellion. If it isn't about social inequities or flaws, then it's not punk.
See, punk is the message - rock is the medium. Without the message you only have rock.

Right now companies are milking the gothy punky trendy anticulture for all it's worth; bands like Simple Plan, Good Charlotte, Dashboard Confessional, and even the converted Green Day, stores like Hot Topic, and television shows such as anything on MTV or the Invader Zim crap... everything is concocted by some company that wants to make you spend your cash on them.

They will make crappy ass bands, label them punk or emo or whatever, and send them off to the masses to buy into to being the "anti-social" or "angst-filled" loner "cool" person.


That said, Bad Religion is your god. Bad Religion has been playing for well over a decade, standing out as THE punk band just as recognized as its forebearers the Sex Pistols. And Bad Religion has never stopped their message, and they have never sold out.

And Green Day? Green Day are traitors to their genre. Started out fine; then sold out. Just like Blink182. It would be as if Rage Against the Machine supported the Capitalist system, or worse, the Republicans. It would be as if Marilyn Manson suddenly went Christian.

So you want real punk? Fuck those Green Day faggots - Dead Kennedys and the almighty Bad Religion are the way to go.

PUNK NOT DEAD.

[Kevin Wolf]

As reluctant as I am to get into an argument about music with somebody who closely idenfifies with Fred Durst, the fact of the matter is that with the exception of the hard-liners you've mentioned the days of punk music as any powerful instrument of change are behind us. They thought they were going to change the world, but it turned out they just wanted to record "Sandinista!".

I respect Bad Religion and their ilk for staying on message, but the music bores the hell out of me. For my dollar, I'd rather beat on the brat than rage against the machine, and that's never going to change.

I do find it interesting that you're excoriating Green Day just when they have returned to the roots of "punk", for what could be more punk than becoming the biggest band in the world and then recording an album that lambastes every aspect of the American culture that put you there in the fist place?

Call me a "bitch" if you like, Douche, but "American Idiot" is a landmark rock album that deserves its place in the punk pantheon right alongside "London Calling", "Machine Gun Ettiquette", "Rocket to Russia", or "Whatever the hell your favorite Dead Kennedys album is called".

[JPSloan]

/Is perfectly happy listening to his My Dying Bride.

[Creepychick]

I am sticking with my Toy Dolls.

[Kevin Wolf]

I am sticking with my Toy Dolls.

This is my woman, by the way.

Be nice to her.

[Luprand]

The most recent mass-produced music I have in my collection is "SheDaisy: the Whole SheBang" ... I think this exonerates me from making any commentary whatsoever.

--Sij

[Steverules]

And punk is no longer about "rejecting" or embracing anything. It's just another genre.

I can't believe you said that. I can't believe you just fucking said that.

PUNK NOT DEAD.

Van, Avril Lavigne would agree with you. She claims she's hard core punk. She spells Skaterboy like SK8terboy.

[Creepychick]

Yeouch! Please tell me you are joking about that.

[Kevin Wolf]

I'm just sick of bands being punished because they blew up and got huge.

I don't think any of the fellows in Green Day have ever sat down to write a song with the thought, "Damn, this is gonna sound great in heavy radio rotation!"

[Van Douchebag]

I do find it interesting that you're excoriating Green Day just when they have returned to the roots of "punk", for what could be more punk than becoming the biggest band in the world and then recording an album that lambastes every aspect of the American culture that put you there in the fist place?

Dreen Gay the biggest band in the world?
rotflmfao

Dude, Dreen Gay is no where near the "biggest band", nor the biggest punk band in the world. They're still shrimps. They only have a big name because teeny-bopper brats are swooning over them because they're a flavour of the week for them, since they can't remember the time when Dreen Gay's first albums came out.

Dreen Gay didn't return to the roots of punk at all. If anything, they've shown they're less punk with the advent of the album. Let's evaluate...

1- The song "American Idiot" coinciding with times where America is highly split amongst itself and where the government is a joke. This is reflecting the popular youth opinion. By reflecting the popular youth opinion, they will increase their sales because people like to be encouraged to think what they believe is right and that believing in this will make them popular. This is why rap artists sing about ghetto life or the bling-bling more than anything - think anyone wants to hear raps 'bout living off daddy's trust fund in the 'burbs? Teenagers and young adults are inherently stupid and can be easily manipulating into doing anything you want them to do so long as you convince them what they'll do will be "cool" and give them respect in the eyes of others. That said, if Dreen Gay was so "punk" they would've started out lambasting America full out on their first album. I smell bullshit on their breath.

2- Let's see... screaming teeny-boppers with their mommies' purses everywhere and a performance at the Grammys. 'nuff said.

3- Compare the people attending Dreen Gay concerts, and those attending concerts of Bad Religion, Dead Kennedys, Rage Against the Machine, and any other true punk band. Those going to Dreen Gay concerts are poseurs calling themselves "punk rawkers" because they think it'll make them cool, whereas attendees of the latter are true anarchists and revolutionists. Dreen Gay are as "punk" as Avril Lavigne (Insert dry laugh), and are primped, packaged, shipped and sold as "punk". These people are fucking manufactured.

4- The roots of punk have nothing to do with America. They have to do with societies that discourage absolute freedom absolutely. Societies that demonize those behind the Columbine massacre. Societies that are focused on fame, and glamour, and popularity, and money, and perfection. Although America fulfills all of these things, Dreen Gay missed the target on this one. I mean, the Sex Pistols were fuckin' Brits for Christ's sake.

Van, Avril Lavigne would agree with you. She claims she's hard core punk. She spells Skaterboy like SK8terboy.

Who said I was punk? If anything, I'm a metalhead. Or a douchebag.
I did, however, a thesis on the goth and punk subculture. It was mostly on the goths, but I did follow punk for a while from the point where gothic and punk subcultures split in the eighties and some bits into the early nineties.

[Steverules]

I do find it interesting that you're excoriating Green Day just when they have returned to the roots of "punk", for what could be more punk than becoming the biggest band in the world and then recording an album that lambastes every aspect of the American culture that put you there in the fist place?

Dreen Gay the biggest band in the world?
rotflmfao

Dude, Dreen Gay is no where near the "biggest band", nor the biggest punk band in the world. They're still shrimps. They only have a big name because teeny-bopper brats are swooning over them because they're a flavour of the week for them, since they can't remember the time when Dreen Gay's first albums came out.

Dreen Gay didn't return to the roots of punk at all. If anything, they've shown they're less punk with the advent of the album. Let's evaluate...

1- The song "American Idiot" coinciding with times where America is highly split amongst itself and where the government is a joke. This is reflecting the popular youth opinion. By reflecting the popular youth opinion, they will increase their sales because people like to be encouraged to think what they believe is right and that believing in this will make them popular. This is why rap artists sing about ghetto life or the bling-bling more than anything - think anyone wants to hear raps 'bout living off daddy's trust fund in the 'burbs? Teenagers and young adults are inherently stupid and can be easily manipulating into doing anything you want them to do so long as you convince them what they'll do will be "cool" and give them respect in the eyes of others. That said, if Dreen Gay was so "punk" they would've started out lambasting America full out on their first album. I smell bullshit on their breath.

2- Let's see... screaming teeny-boppers with their mommies' purses everywhere and a performance at the Grammys. 'nuff said.

3- Compare the people attending Dreen Gay concerts, and those attending concerts of Bad Religion, Dead Kennedys, Rage Against the Machine, and any other true punk band. Those going to Dreen Gay concerts are poseurs calling themselves "punk rawkers" because they think it'll make them cool, whereas attendees of the latter are true anarchists and revolutionists. Dreen Gay are as "punk" as Avril Lavigne (Insert dry laugh), and are primped, packaged, shipped and sold as "punk". These people are fucking manufactured.

4- The roots of punk have nothing to do with America. They have to do with societies that discourage absolute freedom absolutely. Societies that demonize those behind the Columbine massacre. Societies that are focused on fame, and glamour, and popularity, and money, and perfection. Although America fulfills all of these things, Dreen Gay missed the target on this one. I mean, the Sex Pistols were fuckin' Brits for Christ's sake.

Well, fuck. Van, what the hell am I going to do with the Avril Lavigne and Bad Religion duet CD I bought for your birthday. I even think Celion Dion sings a couple with them.

[Creepychick]

Not to take a swipe at the hydra or anything, but if you want to talk about a manufactured band, The Sex Pistols is it. You may want to plug your ears for this one, but I strongly believe the only "punk" that was in that band (by which I mean truely lower class) was Sid Vicious. And he couldn't sing (they unplugged his mic) and killed himself and his woman.

[The Neko]

How about... WHO THE FUCK CARES?!
It's music.
That's all.

[Van Douchebag]

Well, fuck. Van, what the hell am I going to do with the Avril Lavigne and Bad Religion duet CD I bought for your birthday. I even think Celion Dion sings a couple with them.

Don't fuck with me, fish head.

Not to take a swipe at the hydra or anything, but if you want to talk about a manufactured band, The Sex Pistols is it. You may want to plug your ears for this one, but I strongly believe the only "punk" that was in that band (by which I mean truely lower class) was Sid Vicious. And he couldn't sing (they unplugged his mic) and killed himself and his woman.

That was in the late seventies. You can't compare the seventies to the nineties or the y2k.
'sides, punk bands aren't about the singing, but the message.

[Kevin Wolf]

It's been my impression that the sort of people you see at Rage against the Machine (a band I like, by the way) concerts are more long the line of impotent-rage-filled, over-priveleged stoner jackasses who don't give a shit about anybody's message as long as it comes accompanied with kick-ass funk/metal riffing.

I agree with you that youth rebellion has become a commodity, the same way that rock n' roll did within 30 seconds of Bill Halley's first single. Can't be helped.

Your elitist ravings about "real" vs. "poseur" punk are pretty hysterical, though. In my experience music is either "good" or "bad". I really don't give a damn if it was made with visions of revolution or piles of loot.

[Creepychick]

Do you consider The Ramones a punk band? I am not trying to be a pain, I am just curious.

[Kevin Wolf]

How about... WHO THE FUCK CARES?!
It's music.
That's all.

Why is there always somebody who has to try to ruin a perfectly good argument?

[Van Douchebag]

It's been my impression that the sort of people you see at Rage against the Machine (a band I like, by the way) concerts are more long the line of impotent-rage-filled, over-priveleged stoner jackasses who don't give a shit about anybody's message as long as it comes accompanied with kick-ass funk/metal riffing.

I agree with you that youth rebellion has become a commodity, the same way that rock n' roll did within 30 seconds of Bill Halley's first single. Can't be helped.

Alright; so we've reach an accord then - we both see what makes punk rock punk rock has been turned into a popular teen trend in a cruel twist of irony.

As for RatM, you pretty much describe their concerts, but when their fans with real interest in politics are focused they can shake shit up. Remember when they played in front of protesters at some international political conference a few years back?

Do you consider The Ramones a punk band? I am not trying to be a pain, I am just curious.

Yes and no. The music itself is pretty much what all punk rock guitar riffs should come from, but their lyrics were iffy.

[Kevin Wolf]

Do you consider The Ramones a punk band? I am not trying to be a pain, I am just curious.

Yes and no. The music itself is pretty much what all punk rock guitar riffs should come from, but their lyrics were iffy.

What, even "The KKK Took My Baby Away?" It's a searing indictment of...um...something...

The Ramones actually sort of coined the phrase "punk rock".