Carmen Miranda

[RHJunior]

Well, the point of irony with Hortense getting backflipped was that, like most feminists, she always demanded that everyone treat her the same as a man--- and then discovered to noone's surprise that she really didn't care for it when it happened.

I once had a friend years ago who got sucker-punched in the groin by a girl... He retaliated by slapping her across the tits. She of course squalled like a scalded cat and danced around clutching her stinging boobs-- "WHAD YA DO THAT FOR???" Never dawned on her that she wouldn't LIKE being treated like a "complete equal..."

Oh, and by the way... Petunia IS a trashy woman. She just gives a crap about the people she loves... especially her favorite cousin. Of course, being trashy, her idea of what's best for Lily is a bit off level--- among other things encouraging Lily to "live it up a little," to smoke, trying to get her to lose her virginity with some random beefcake, to be a "bad girl" when her parents weren't looking.... not what you'd call a good influence. She was something of a response to an epic bad cliche' I'd seen elsewhere.... specifically in christian fiction writing--- the "bad little unbeliever" who was just oh so rotten to the core... she drank and smoke and cussed and dressed slutty and bummed money off everyone and was rude and inconsiderate and of COURSE she sneered at anything Christian, cause everyone KNOWS....etc,

[Labrusca]

Oh, Petunia DOES smoke, then?

After the scene at the family reunion where Ben notes that she hasn't actually taken a drag on her cigarette all day, she says "Nuts, you're on to me" and I took that to mean she actually didn't smoke. She just pretended to do it to annoy the anti-smoking "nanny-nazis" as she put it.

[Mikhail Dragoslav]

I stand corrected on the points you raised. Though I stick my main point: that Petunia and Hortense (for whatever character flaws they may have) only have their friends best interests at heart and shouldn't be condemned for that, even it means she disagrees with Tuck about his plan. Which on the face of it, you need not be a militant feminist to question.

[Sharuuk]

I stand corrected on the points you raised. Though I stick my main point: that Petunia and Hortense (for whatever character flaws they may have) only have their friends best interests at heart and shouldn't be condemned for that, even it means she disagrees with Tuck about his plan. Which on the face of it, you need not be a militant feminist to question.

It's the slam of Tucks' plan being stupid simply because he's a man that raises my hackles.....whether Hortense has Thelma's best intrest in mind or not, it still doesn't excuse the attack on Tuck.....getting dumped on her gourd is just what she deserved. And then bitchin' about not being treated like a lady when she doesn't act like one is the height of hypocricy.

Shaaruuk

[Sharuuk]

I had to go back and look at the 2nd panel again. Look at Hortense' face. She's desperately trying to think of something that would counter Tuck's logic in what he just told her in panel #1. Failing that, just like any liberal who cannot win a debate or argue the merits of the subject matter....attacks the person who made the point directly....panel #3

It NEVER FAILS......can't win on facts?.....critisize and belittle the speaker.

Shaaruuk

[Bootlizard]

Hortense may be being a twat about saying it, but she's got a point and Nip hasn't thought this through real clearly.

Because giving a gal with low self esteem over to a community of cutthroat modeling bitches and sneering judges? Not the brightest.

Oh, yeah, and Sharuuk? This is me belittling you and attacking you because I'm a poor widdle liberal who doesn't know what I'm talking about. Yeahsure.

[Sharuuk]

Hortense may be being a twat about saying it, but she's got a point and Nip hasn't thought this through real clearly.

Because giving a gal with low self esteem over to a community of cutthroat modeling bitches and sneering judges? Not the brightest.

Oh, yeah, and Sharuuk? This is me belittling you and attacking you because I'm a poor widdle liberal who doesn't know what I'm talking about. Yeahsure.

Well....actually you haven't attacked or belittled me. You've made a cogent and reasoned argument on why this may have been a big mistake on Tucks part. An argument that I can agree with in part. My point that you completely missed is that Hortense didn't even attempt to make that argument, she just dismissed Tucks idea and reasons for it out-of-hand simply because a MAN had made it. And that was a direct, personal attack on Tuck!

Oh....BTW....Congwatuwations you poor widdle wibewal....you made a good point with your argument.


Shaaruuk

[Bootlizard]

Actually, that last line was sarcasm. I'm sick of hearing, "oh, LIBERALS do thus and such" and "well, what do you expect from a CONSERVATIVE," and just wanted to be snippy about it.

Hortense may not have made the argument, but I'd hardly be surprised if that was what she was thinking-- and in a state of emotion, do you say, "why yes, but wouldn't you agree, my chum" or do you go "you fucking idiot?" first. For Hortense, the thought might even be a given, a fact of life. She's fairly used to feeling.. un-included, being a reptile and not very feminine. She's probably hyperaware of just how nasty a group of females can be. (I speak from experience-- four years of Girl Scouts. And we weren't even competing for anything.)

I tend to read her expression in the second panel is "My god, I cannot believe that you are this dumb," rather than "I can't think of a decent argument."

And Hortense's anti-male hyperfeminist thing gets on my nerves, but I feel for her. It's not fun being an outcast. And I like her chutzpah. While I'd never tell a man to treat me like a lady after tackling him (being of the school 'if you get to hit him, he gets to hit you'), I would tackle a guy, especially if I thought he'd just done something massively damaging to a friend.

[Sharuuk]

Actually, that last line was sarcasm. I'm sick of hearing, "oh, LIBERALS do thus and such" and "well, what do you expect from a CONSERVATIVE," and just wanted to be snippy about it.

Sarcasm noted. However, I too speak from experience. I've been in the gun control debate (against) for well over 25 years. Without exception, in every debate with a gun control advocate, as soon as I made a documented, provable point that my opponent could NOT counter with factual research, I'd get called some kind of name...."NRA Lapdog" among others, or the research information, regardless of who provided it, (never the NRA) was dismissed outright.....but never contradicted!

So based on 25years experience of this...YES this is exactly how leftist liberals react when they cannot argue the merits of the subject matter.

I tend to read her expression in the second panel is "My god, I cannot believe that you are this dumb," rather than "I can't think of a decent argument."

She didn't want to think anything else......Tuck's a MALE.....and by default in her narrow mind, a complete idiot incapable of rational thought.

And Hortense's anti-male hyperfeminist thing gets on my nerves, but I feel for her. It's not fun being an outcast. And I like her chutzpah. While I'd never tell a man to treat me like a lady after tackling him (being of the school 'if you get to hit him, he gets to hit you'), I would tackle a guy, especially if I thought he'd just done something massively damaging to a friend.

She gave absolutely NO thought whatsoever to how much Tuck loves Thelma and that he'd never deliberately do ANYTHING to hurt her either physically or emotionally. All she could focus on is her borderline psychopathic hatred of anything that showcases feminine beauty which she sees as just another male conspiracy to objectify women. Hortense needs to see a shrink WAY more than Thelma.

I don't augue that this plan could blow up in Tucks face like a bomb.....that doesn't justify Hortense' jumping on his back screeching in his ear. And by the same token it could also give Thelma the self confidence she needs to actually see herself as a beautiful woman......and that, in the final analysis is going to be up to RH!

[StrangeWulf13]

No offense, but could we please watch the language in here? Never know when some idiot kid clicks the wrong link and starts reading...

I ain't asking much, just use asterisks or the @#$%! keys. Just a friendly suggestion.

[Bootlizard]

as soon as I made a documented, provable point that my opponent could NOT counter with factual research, I'd get called some kind of name....

This is not just a liberal thing. This is a mindless-position thing. Liberals get called names, too... try Pinko on for size. Everyone calls names in a tight spot. Living on a college campus, I got to see a pretty example of this around election time. The great majority being liberals, they started off fairly pompous and gloating, but when the conservatives retorted, it degenerated into name calling on both sides. Points made were ignored and forgotten even by the people who made them.

I'd also tend to take objection to calling Hortense a liberal. Militant feminists, in my experience, aren't. They've hitched their wagon to the liberal star, but in the end their agenda has one issue, and bugger (that all right?) other liberal values.

That said..

She didn't want to think anything else......Tuck's a MALE.....and by default in her narrow mind, a complete idiot incapable of rational thought.

A point I haven't argued. She will always argue in terms of gender; it's simply her programming. And, as I said, she' s being a tw(i)t. The fact remains that she does have a point, she's not just jealous of the promotion of mammalian beauty or automatically opposed to any plan by a man (she'd be that, too. Just probably not to the point of violence.)

She gave absolutely NO thought whatsoever to how much Tuck loves Thelma and that he'd never deliberately do ANYTHING to hurt her either physically or emotionally.

I have no doubt that Hortense (whether she'll admit it or not) knows that Tuck adores Thelma and would never -- key word -- deliberately do anything to hurt her.

But in her view, Commander Tuck has just proudly ordered Private Thelma to go pick daisies in a minefield. He acted without thinking and now Thelma is in danger.

Yes, Hortense needs a shrink. And, given that her feelings of inadequacy tend to stem from the complete lack of attention paid to her as a woman, maybe a boy/girlfriend.

Thelma needs one too. She's a prime candidate for anorexia. And HER shrink would probably develop a facial tick on hearing that she'd been enrolled in a model-search program.

[Mad Mike]

Thelma needs one too. She's a prime candidate for anorexia.

I disagree - Thelma doesn't think she's fat, she thinks she's plain-looking. This has been engraved in her spirit because, deep down in her heart, she still believes that if she were truly pretty, it wouldn't have taken Tuck nearly as long as it did to admit that he loves her. This was only compounded by jerks like Gus and her little brother Eugene, who ragged her about her looks because they knew it would hurt her. She may be starting to come to grips with this intellectually, but right now her emotions are running the show. As I have said before, she doesn't have to win the beauty contest, she only has to make a decent showing to help her understand that she is, in fact, a very attractive woman.

[Mad Mike]

Oh, yeah - welcome to the forum, Bootlizard! Glad to have you here! You have now entered the realm of Rhyme and Pun-ishment...

[Yuoofox]

Reading some of the posts on this thread has left me feeling kind of lousy. I don't like it that the main conversation direction seems to be: "They're calling us bad names, so let's call them bad names."

I know that you're probably thinking, "Well Yuoo, if you don't like it then just don't read it. I'm sorry it makes you feel that way, but let us have our say too." And you'd be absolutely right by thinking this. I can't tell you what you should or shouldn't say, but please hear me out for a moment.

I think there's too much name-calling going on. Yes, there are women out there who are bossy, arrogant, and prejudiced, and it's okay to be upset about that. But on the other had, there are also men who are bossy, arrogant, and prejudiced, and it's okay if someone is upset about that. The problem is that this sort of anger tends to spill over and hit people who haven't done anything wrong. I think that the phrase "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" can certainly be overused, but I think it has a point here.

Instead of saying, "You are mean to me, so I'll be mean to you," I think it's better to say, "Wow, there are a lot of mean people in this world. I'll do my best to not become one of them."

I think there's a difference between what you have a right to do and what you should do. For instance, Mr. Ralph was talking about a woman who kicked someone in the groin. I'm sure she deserved to be hit back [by saying this, I'm assuming that she did it out of spite and not self defense], and I'm sure she'll think twice about hitting someone again, but is that what the man should have done? I can't answer that question for everyone, but speaking for myself, my answer is "No."

Okay. Those are my two cents. I will respect any complaints or criticisms anyone has for me, but please be gentle.

[Squeaky Bunny]

Oh, yeah - welcome to the forum, Bootlizard! Glad to have you here! You have now entered the realm of Rhyme and Pun-ishment...

*slowly opens one aye* You called???

[StrangeWulf13]

Define "mean", Yuoo. Seriously.

The definition I get these days is something along the lines of someone who doesn't spend all their time walking around in fields of flowers and snuggling with cute widdle bunnies. Y'know, the ones who wouldn't hurt a fly, even to eat?

I think there are times one is allowed to be "mean", because it's necessary. Ever seen a parent who's totally nice to their kids? They get what they deserve, spoiled brats, because they're too afraid of being "mean" parents.

There is time for everything under the sun, after all. There's a time to hold yourself in check and there is a time to go all out.

Only wisdom can tell us when to use our fists and when to use our heads.

[RHJunior]

Yuoo, as to the girl who kicked my friend in the nuts--- say the word, NUTS, not "GROIN," it's more specific to the pain my friend suffered-- his response was 100% appropriate.

She was a typical "modern girl"--- the sort who only mentions the pain of other people, especially men, so she can laugh at it. The sort who thinks seeing a man curled up in a ball around his genitals is an all-time kneeslapper, because men are such wimps, etc. It's one of the problems with women today: any pain that isn't theirs isn't real.

But painwise, getting slapped in the breast is a close equivalent to getting kicked in the nuts. The snotty little bimbette got exactly what she earned-- a painful lesson in empathy.

[Kesarra]

It really does hurt when a woman gets kicked in the groin.

I knew a girl in high school that would just grab a random guys' nuts. Probably figured it was the equivalent of a guy brushing against a girl with his arm just for the sake of making some contact. It was a bit more than that, but you get the picture.

[Bootlizard]

Oh, yeah - welcome to the forum, Bootlizard! Glad to have you here! You have now entered the realm of Rhyme and Pun-ishment...

Oh, no.. punsters? And me an innocent, just full of perfectly innocuous quips that you horrible folk will mutilate?

..oh, well, I'll bring you all closer together. You know they say the shortest distance between two puns is a straight line.

[Yuoofox]

Define "mean", Yuoo. Seriously.

The definition I get these days is something along the lines of someone who doesn't spend all their time walking around in fields of flowers and snuggling with cute widdle bunnies. Y'know, the ones who wouldn't hurt a fly, even to eat?

Yeah. I see what you mean. Heh. I guess I kind of have that problem myself. Ever since my early teens, I