A Convenience or an Outrage?

Mr Ekshin · Post by **Mr Ekshin** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:31 am

I found Cat and Girl by accident a long time ago while searching for something else. Hmmm, maybe too much info there...

It made me start reading web comics in the first place.

Finally finding Keenspace made me realize I could try to do one myself.

Anyway Cat and Girl has been on my links page since I started a links page. It's not a KS comic, but I make special allowances for my first love.

Phalanx · Post by **Phalanx** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:41 am

Okie wrote: I would like a massive newspaper style page with all the current comic strips. But that will never happen, unless it has happened and no one told me about it. The people would have to voluntarily submit their comics, because no one would ever pay all the strippers. Then you'd have all the disputes about good comics and bad comics, and standards, etc. Who gets to be first, second, last....

http://www.graphicsmash.com/tooncast_list.php

Mr.Bob · Post by **Mr.Bob** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:03 am

Okie, don't hotlink to Cat and Girl like that... it isn't polite (Actually, its very similar to the issue that's getting everyone in this thread here riled up).
Either save the strip to your roughies site or give us a link to the cat and girl strip on its homesite.

Mr Ekshin wrote:I e-mailed the author. Might want to send him more e-mail you all?

He's: andyi@world.std.com

Let him know what you think.

I did.
And by doing so, I think that I may have just singlehandedly destroyed our cause by sending him an incorent E-mail composed entirely in caps, and comprised of leet, bad spelling, varying combinations of exclamation marks and 1s and a score of inane insults principally concerning his chosen sexual orientation.

I'm sorry.

I... I couldn't help myself...

(You know I'm joking!)

Yeahduff · Post by **Yeahduff** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:15 am

Part of me wishes you weren't.

KittyKatBlack · Post by **KittyKatBlack** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:02 am

Mr.Bob wrote:
Mr Ekshin wrote:I e-mailed the author. Might want to send him more e-mail you all?

He's: andyi@world.std.com

Let him know what you think.
I did.
And by doing so, I think that I may have just singlehandedly destroyed our cause by sending him an incorent E-mail composed entirely in caps, and comprised of leet, bad spelling, varying combinations of exclamation marks and 1s and a score of inane insults principally concerning his chosen sexual orientation.

Whew. Luckly you didn't use the F-word. Cause then he mighta been upset and not taken us seriously!

Mr.Bob · Post by **Mr.Bob** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:06 am

"Fjord"?

KittyKatBlack · Post by **KittyKatBlack** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:11 am

No, silly. The other one.

*leans in and whispers*

"Fraggle..."

*gets all shifty eyed*

Mr.Bob · Post by **Mr.Bob** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:24 am

KittyKatBlack wrote:"Fraggle..."

Ooh I like that word.... It sounds so... naughty!!!

PinDummy · Post by **PinDummy** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:38 am

Why don`t we offer Comictastic cracks on our websites?

That shall teach the bastards.

Overall, I share Ghastly`s opinion over this (from when he shoewd support towards Hard`s rants againt those kinds of rippers. It`s not the same as Kazaa or other file sharing programs, faub, simply because webcomics are on the net for free. For free, dammit! All you have to do is acess the page and there you have, everything for free!

I may not make any money out of my comics, but I want the hits. I want people to visit my website. And I don`t see how some lame hack pulling out softwares that steal something that`s already free is going to help it.

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:12 am

I don't think it's wrong for someone to sell this program - it's their creation, they should be allowed to market it so long as what it does isn't illegal.

Morally, I'm opposed to webcomic ripping. But honestly, the comics are up for free. I'd be happier if the program would also download the tracking image on the site, so that the counter would increment, and if there were a way a webcomic artist could opt out of it - say by adding a meta tag to their site.

Matt Lim · Post by **Matt Lim** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:21 am

Sure the comics are free, but wouldn't you feel mad if someone took your strips from your page and put on theirs and charged people for viewing them? That is essentially what we have here. Our comics aren't "free" as people say they are, they are cheap. Our price is that you visit our websites to view them, it shouldn't be that much of a hassel for people.

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:31 am

Matt Lim wrote:Sure the comics are free, but wouldn't you feel mad if someone took your strips from your page and put on theirs and charged people for viewing them? That is essentially what we have here. Our comics aren't "free" as people say they are, they are cheap. Our price is that you visit our websites to view them, it shouldn't be that much of a hassel for people.

I was under the impression that this was a client-based program that actively downloaded the comic images on demand? If so, then it's really no different than Internet Explorer, except that they aren't seeing the entire website.

If that's not what the program is doing, and it's actually downloading the images to a central location and then the client side programs just visit this clearinghouse... yeah, that's bad and wrong.

PinDummy · Post by **PinDummy** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:38 am

Apparently, this program uses the comic's bandwidth, making the artist pay and get nothing in return.

As KS artists, we're the last guys to be affected by this (unless one of us is Hard). The real problem are the indie comics.

But a big part of us would like to become indie and make some money out of our comics. That's why we should stick together against those kinds of issues.

KittyKatBlack · Post by **KittyKatBlack** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:56 am

Mr.Bob wrote:
KittyKatBlack wrote:"Fraggle..."
Ooh I like that word.... It sounds so... naughty!!!

K-Dawg · Post by **K-Dawg** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:25 am

Fanservice at it's best.

Warren · Post by **Warren** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:58 am

You know, this came up about a year ago on another site.

[My stance]
Right now I'd be happy for the increased exposure. Of course, I currently get between 100-150 readers a day. If Spare Change was available as a default link on this program, I might find more readers.

However, once I start having issues with my bandwidth on my pay site, that's a different story. UNLESS I am also getting a small donation (say 1-5 cents) for each copy of the software sold with Spare Change listed as a "default" toon.

Yeah, I'm a whore. I'd sell it for 5c a copy.

But I'd be more than a little distressed if the program lets you rip the whole archive, rather than the only the most recent comic. That would hurt quickly.
[/My stance]

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:25 am

PinDummy wrote:Why don`t we offer Comictastic cracks on our websites?

That shall teach the bastards.

That's... that's genial! I'll do it!
*scraps his idea of sending a mail to the author, after putting it through leet translator on http://www.albinoblacksheep.com

Overall, I share Ghastly`s opinion over this (from when he shoewd support towards Hard`s rants againt those kinds of rippers. It`s not the same as Kazaa or other file sharing programs, faub, simply because webcomics are on the net for free. For free, dammit! All you have to do is acess the page and there you have, everything for free!

I may not make any money out of my comics, but I want the hits. I want people to visit my website. And I don`t see how some lame hack pulling out softwares that steal something that`s already free is going to help it.

That's pretty much it, I may be hypocrite cause I own a collection of pirated DivX films, lots of pirated MP3 as well as audio CDs. But I'd debate you on whether it's wring to steal from big software companies (mainly Adobe) or big music publishers. I'd also detade you on moral stands in a land where original CD costs a half of average monthly payment.
First of all, I support saving my comic in private archives. However, I don't support making a public webpage containing my comic, without my permission. Saving comic on HD doesn't harm anyone: Reader has to browse archives for that, and when rereading them, he doesn't steal keenspace's bandwith.
And of course, if someone burned my comic on cd among others, and sell it, I'd be against it.
Teretrous said that internet is about getting for free something you'd have to pay for. I think riping something to save money is still partly justifyable reason, specially if that something is ridiculously expensive as computer stuff often gets (as my proffesor said, new world order is all about overpaying for computers and related stuff, they're usually at least 10 times more priced than their producing costs). But if the only reason for snitching something is sheer lazyness, well, that's simply wrong with a big "w".

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:31 am

Oh, and I found out about Cat and Girl from ScaryGoRound links.

Mr.Bob · Post by **Mr.Bob** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:12 am

KittyKatBlack wrote:*comic*

*sniffile*

Fraggle!! *giggles*

Noise Monkey · Post by **Noise Monkey** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:21 am

I guess I'll be opposed to this, too, but not so much for personal reasons. I mean, the reason I do comics on the internet is so people can see them and I don't really care how. Hits on the site are always nice, but basically, I like the idea of people seeing my stuff whether they get it from the site directly, emailed from a friend, or ripped.

However, I do think that since the nice people at Keenspace are fronting the server space and automation, they oughta get a little coin for their trouble. That makes it wrong. At least for here... If I had a pay site, it'd be different...