Religious Preference, Or Lack Thereof

KittyKatBlack · Post by **KittyKatBlack** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 4:25 am

You're just saying that cause you want all the Evil for yourself! Evil!

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 4:51 am

Err..

1) Why is Satanism listed as it's own religion, when you have Christianity in all it's forms listed? Satan is a Christian concept, and Satanists are a sect of Christianity.

2) Why isn't "Paganism and all it's sects" listed? Good grief, I had to sign up under "Other Polytheistic" ugh.

Asarea · Post by **Asarea** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 4:53 am

Hum. Catholic. There are not THAT much choices in good old europe.

*grins*

BlackStar · Post by **BlackStar** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:01 am

actually, nick and i had a discusssion about that when he was making this poll. i've read the satanic bible cover to cover and really, satanism is much closer to paganism than it is to christianity. the closest tie satanism has to christianity is that it is an outright rejection (and almost polar opposite) of christianity.

christianity is about worshipping a diety that is very much separate from the worshipper, about faith, love for one's fellow man, rejection of carnal pleasures for good works and service.

satanism is (to my understanding) a form of hedonistic paganism. to the satanist, 'god' and 'satan' are not actual deities; they are the names given to forces in the universe. the term satan applying to the force which is the manifestation of pleasure, sexuality, strength, etc--base, natural human drives.

the reason that i say satanism is closer to paganism than christianity is the diversity of its followers views on 'god' and 'satan' AND the practice of magick (black, white, gray or fuschia), which is very much a part of the satanic path. actually, now that i think about it, that's about where the similarities to paganism END.

but really, satanism is just as rife with hypocrisies and contradictions as christianity, so you can have 'em both, hehe.

-P.

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:11 am

Good arguement! The problem is, Christianity selected holidays and traditions in synch with the prevailing Pagan beliefs to draw people into the faith. Satanism has done the same thing - only this time aimed at people whose faith runs towards the worship of evil.

None the less, a religion devoted in many respects to being anti-Christian is itself a Christian faith. True worshippers of Set for example, don't need a bible, satanic or otherwise.

BlackStar · Post by **BlackStar** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:20 am

i guess i can't really argue with you; except on the point of it being a faith steered towards evil. it's just a faith steered towards glorification of the self and the power of oneself (one part of satanism i really like). if one sees that as evil then so be it, but i don't think it's evil in and of itself and i'm sure that satanists don't see it that way either.

-P.

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:53 am

Not being Christian myself, I can't argue the good/evil aspect with you - my understanding was that if God was good, and Satan was evil, than the worship of God is good, and the worship of Satan is evil. That's an overly simple view, to be sure.

So long as you're not violating the rule of three, I've got no gripe with you.

LAGtheNoggin · Post by **LAGtheNoggin** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:18 am

Once again, Dictionary.com comes to the rescue!

God
n.
[...]
5. A very handsome man.
[...]

I believe in handsome men, I believe in lots of handsome men (thinks of Jamie >happy sigh<) therefore I'm Other Polytheistic Religion ^_^

Logic r00ls j00.

YarpsDat · Post by **YarpsDat** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:48 am

Superlance wrote:I'm a Christian.

And soon, I will be a Christian commander.

(Anyone could help me with the "captain Jesus" quote from Riboflavin? I'm too lazy to look for it.)

Argh, the poll has too many options!!!
If it was nice and simple poll:
How many gods are there:
0
1
2-5
5+

I'd just pick 0!
But now I'm forced to chose between atheist, agnostic and other nontheistic religion

Which one of these says "Personally I think there is no god, but frankly, I don't give a damn."?

Warren · Post by **Warren** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:51 am

Who's the hippie that chose Wiccan?

HIPPIE!!!

HIPPIE!!!

DGC · Post by **DGC** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:32 am

The Satanism everyone seems to be talking about doesn't even really have a concept of evil in the traditional sense. From what I've read, it seems to concentrate on balance within the universe vs. imbalance rather than good vs. evil. Much like the underlying ideas of Socrates/Plato, Confucious and even deep into Christianity.

A lot of the confusion about Satanism being synonymous with Evil comes from the fact that Lucifer, the former Angel of Light within most sects of Christianity is also known by the name Satan. In that case, Lucifer himself actually isn't evil either. He entices people to perform evil acts in order to make a case against free will.

Of course, that's all based on particulars that change between various factions and sects, so not entirely accurate for everything.

Faub · Post by **Faub** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 10:03 am

There should be one option for every living person on the planet. The dead ones don't count.

I'm not going to vote for this because I think it's silly. (You also didn't list my option.) I will make fun of it, though.

First off, anyone from the outside looking in would see Satanism, no matter the arguments, as a spinoff of Judeo-Christian-Islam. It's the same characters with a new storyline.

It just seems to me that the good Christian thing to do would be to try to lump Paganism with Satanism so the two seem to be linked somehow. Paganism is then evil and the Christians are right and have won the argument. There is no such thing as paganism in any case. It's a bunch of varied religions lumped together to make them look similar. Most of the time the only thing pagans have in common is the fact that they are not Christian and people just don't understand what that means. (Some of my mom's friends are what you might call pagan but for the life of me I couldn't tell you what they call themselves.)

Anyway, one apparently anti-christian rant later....(I wonder when that happened.)

I don't subscribe to anything -ism. To me, the bible is a book. Jesus was a good person who was punished for scaring the people in charge. The universe is probably pretty old and it probably had a beginning. And, there are things science doesn't know about yet. 900 generations ago, your family was probably a lot shorter in stature and had quite a bit more hair.

To me, the above bit means one thing. To someone else it could be construed as something entirely different. That's good enough for me. They're just words.

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 10:29 am

faub wrote:First off, anyone from the outside looking in would see Satanism, no matter the arguments, as a spinoff of Judeo-Christian-Islam. It's the same characters with a new storyline.

Ah.. my point exactly.

faub wrote:It just seems to me that the good Christian thing to do would be to try to lump Paganism with Satanism so the two seem to be linked somehow. Paganism is then evil and the Christians are right and have won the argument.

The "good Christian" thing to do would be to lump all non-Christian religions together and label them as evil, or at best, neutral. Christianity has to accept that Satanists are a sect, the same way that they have to accept that Baptists, Unitarians, and Protestants are sects. You can't say, "Well, I don't like that they do this... so we'll give this sect to someone else."

faub wrote:There is no such thing as paganism in any case. It's a bunch of varied religions lumped together to make them look similar.

There is no such thing as Christianity. It's a bunch of varied religions lumped together to make them look similar. Those religions share holidays, but then, so do most Pagans. Those religions share rituals, but then, so do most Pagans.

faub wrote:Most of the time the only thing pagans have in common is the fact that they are not Christian and people just don't understand what that means. (Some of my mom's friends are what you might call pagan but for the life of me I couldn't tell you what they call themselves.)

It seems obvious to me that you don't know much about pagan culture. There -are- a lot of "I don't wanna be a Christian!" pagans. We make fun of them too, and I personally invite you to continue doing so. But the majority of us are deeply spiritual, have rituals we follow on holidays that are meaningful, and have a belief system that we hold dear.

It's not fair to cast the "I'm pagan 'cause I don't wanna be Christian" idiots as the majority of Pagans. After all, I don't say all Christians are Jew-hating (skinheads), Black-hating (KKK) fundamentalists, just because those groups have tens of thousands of members and swear they are Christian devoutees.

Every religion has it's freaks and idiots. Most muslims would never consider bombing buildings. Most Christians won't condemn you to hell the moment you expouse a different belief. Most pagans are deeply spiritual people who don't select their religion as a way to rebel against Christianity.

You come off sounding holier than thou, faub.

Executor_Arthas · Post by **Executor_Arthas** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:39 am

First off, I'd just like to say that I'm a devout Catholic, and to all of those Jew-hating skinheads that you were just talking about, think about this: If you hate all Jews, then you hate Jesus himself, and if you persecute, and don't believe in Jesus yourself, then you yourself in essence are Jewish. With that out of the way, I know a lot about Christianity, and although there are some discrepencies, I still believe in it, but I also respect most other religions, but Scientism, or how ever it's spelled, is practically brain washing, although they do have good moral values.

BlackStar · Post by **BlackStar** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:42 am

you're extremely well spoken rkolter

as for different kinds of pagans, you have no idea; my last girlfriend was a pagan, and i gained a lot of valuable insight about the pagan religions. there are MANY sects including celtic/gaelige, norse, asatru (sp?), voodoo (if you want to lump that in there), native american beliefs, wiccan, druid, ad bloody nauseum.

i've even seen two pagans having a friendly discussion about their own patron deities (odin and thor i believe).

i really still have a hard time calling satanism a sect of christianity. yes, la vey sprung his church off of christianity, but it is not a christian faith. baptists, unitarians, etc. etc. at least have some core elements in common which make them still christian religions (such as god, the deity, jesus, the resurection, etc.). satanism doesn't have any of that. most satanists simply ignore the concept of god all together, or if they acknowledge it, it's only as a name for the force which is manifest of "good" aspects of life (love, faith, devotion). though to the satanist these things are considered weak and not-good. the elements of ritiual in satanism are different from christianity as well. yes, there is an altar, but what you do at that alter is nothing like what you would do in a christian church. the intent is different.

-P.

Faub · Post by **Faub** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:40 pm

rkolter wrote:It seems obvious to me that you don't know much about pagan culture.

No, I don't.

rkolter wrote:You come off sounding holier than thou, faub.

Yes I did.

I'm trying to figure out where all that came from. I'm not a religious person yet the whole subject just sets me off. Ponju.net had a creationist vrs. evolution thread and I did the exact same thing. I don't mean to sound all holier than thou because I really don't know much about the subject, certainly not half as much as I claim when I make these posts.

I'm always standoffish on the subject of religion. I won't talk about it with real people but I have no problem going off on it when there's just text involved. There's some psychological issue there but I don't have the first clue what to do about it.

I need to get out more. I need to do things that aren't computer related.

DGC · Post by **DGC** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:04 pm

I guess this is the mixup I'm trying to figure out here. Satanism as defined by many people today has nothing to do with Christianity. It follows the idea of multiple forces in the universe each having a certain effect.

What seems to happen is that people confuse this Satanism with the worship of the Fallen Angel Lucifer. This isn't a rejection of the Christianity story, it's a switch to the opposing side of it. So THAT particular group of "satanists" could be considered a sect of Christianity.

I'm not getting into anything about beliefs or anything like that, I'm just trying to get the facts straight from a philosophical and historic point of view.

Tenma · Post by **Tenma** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:30 pm

faub wrote:I'm not going to vote for this because I think it's silly. (You also didn't list my option.) I will make fun of it, though.

That's what the "Other" options are for. I obviously can't list every single religion on the planet.

And making fun of this seems quite pointless. There's nothing silly about figuring out how diverse Spacers are as far as religion goes. It's just something to satisfy curiosity. You are of course free to abstain from voting, but I see no reason why you should want to.

Later...
--Tenma

Nyke · Post by **Nyke** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 4:20 pm

fi13r wrote:Just because you're religious doesn't mean you have to be closed-minded.

Unless you're a fundy.

Agreed.

I'm a pretty devout atheist (if you can call it that). I have a few disagreements with Xianity (none that I'll go on here, to avoid a long, costly flame-war), but I hate it when people equate the disagreements with hatred.

I don't hate Xianity. I just hate the Xians who forget that there are other justified faiths in existance.

War · Post by **War** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:08 pm

I'm happily atheistic. I don't believe in a God, and even if God suddenly popped his head through the clouds and went "boo", I still probably wouldn't be bothered.
I suppose it must be quite comforting to believe in a life after death. I doubt many people would be comforted by my view of life being a finite thing with a definite beginning and a definite end.

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Religious Preference, Or Lack Thereof

What is your religious preference?