Get Government Out Of Marriage

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DetailBear
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Re: New Law on the Subject

Post by DetailBear »

Draloth wrote:If you have the patiance for long, wordy somewhat annoyingly phrased legal talk, read over it-some very interesting points about what marriage is and why it should not be denied to a portion of humanity. A significant portion of the reasoning there is that it denies same gender couples equal rights before the law that hetro couples enjoy, thus violating the constitution.
It's also interesting that the dissenting opinions generally come down to "We've always done it that way, therefore it can't be declared wrong now." and "Opposite-sex couples have all the benefits, and are the best way to raise children, therefore we can't approve same-sex couples because they are not proven to be as good even if they don't have access to the same benefits." (emphasis added).

And here you can see the Ontario Supreme Court ruling as a comparison ... if you can stay awake. :)
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Post by Draloth »

The idea that same sex couples are unfit parents was raised by the defendant - the Department of Public Health - and rejected by the Court rather soundly.
The department has offered no evidence that forbidding marriage to people of the same sex will increase the number of couples choosing to enter into opposite-sex marriages in order to have and raise children. There is thus no rational relationship between the marriage statute and the Commonwealth's proffered goal of protecting the "optimal" child rearing unit. Moreover, the department readily concedes that people in same-sex couples may be "excellent" parents. These couples (including four of the plaintiff couples) have children for the reasons others do--to love them, to care for them, to nurture them. But the task of child rearing for same-sex couples is made infinitely harder by their status as outliers to the marriage laws. While establishing the parentage of children as soon as possible is crucial to the safety and welfare of children, see Culliton v. Beth Israel Deaconness Med. Ctr., 435 Mass. 285, 292 (2001), same-sex couples must undergo the sometimes lengthy and intrusive process of second-parent adoption to establish their joint parentage. While the enhanced income provided by marital benefits is an important source of security and stability for married couples and their children, those benefits are denied to families headed by same-sex couples. See, e.g., note 6, supra. While the laws of divorce provide clear and reasonably predictable guidelines for child support, child custody, and property division on dissolution of a marriage, same-sex couples who dissolve their relationships find themselves and their children in the highly unpredictable terrain of equity jurisdiction. See E.N.O. v. L.M.M., supra. Given the wide range of public benefits reserved only for married couples, we do not credit the department's contention that the absence of access to civil marriage amounts to little more than an inconvenience to same-sex couples and their children. Excluding same-sex couples from civil marriage will not make children of opposite-sex marriages more secure, but it does prevent children of same-sex couples from enjoying the immeasurable advantages that flow from the assurance of "a stable family structure in which children will be reared, educated, and socialized." Post at (Cordy, J., dissenting).
Reading through the Ontario Court opinion now...considering that I'm from there I should have read it already. :oops:

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Post by R. Wyatt »

Meanwhile, across the atlantic ocean...

The gist of it is that gay couple can get married in everything but name. And the immigration laws are slightly different. It's pretty certian to go through, what with the government's massive majority, and tendancy to make any law it wants (rant about tution fees snipped).

The best thing about this is the way the general press has reacted: they haven't. The one article I saw on this said it didn't go far enough, and wanted the same kind of partnership for unmarried straight couples, just what Allan was talking about.

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Post by WolfFur »

Allan for President in 2020!

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Post by Fallwind »

youve got my vote.... of course im not american so that may prove a chalange
I cant say that things will be better if we change; what I can say is that we must change for them to get better

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Post by Allan_ecker »

Well, looks like I've got a mandate.

And now, teh(sic) platform:

1) Exhaustive surveys, studies and research into what programs should be socialized and which should be privatized. There are definite economic reasons to do -both- in certain situations, and these questions have been decided by ideology rather than research for far too long.

2) Re-institution of the inheritance tax, coupled with a tax on calling it the Death Tax. (Just kidding about that second part.)

3) Institution of a "Shelf-life" for laws; laws must get renewed to stay on the books.

4) Simplified universal income tax where your tax is a function of income; this is not a "flat tax" but will likely be some complex polynomial based on economic models. All income levels below 50,000 a year will return NEGATIVE tax.

5) SEVERE campaign finance reform. As in, nobody gets to spend more than fifty bucks severe.

6) New cabinet position: Secretary of Survival. In charge of protecting the human race's survival.

7) Complete and unconditional lift on the ban in gays in the military.

8) Increase spending on public education; decrease spending on the military.

(Oh, yeah, and legalize gay marriage.)
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WolfFur
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Post by WolfFur »

Out of curiosity, how many folks here like Dennis Kucinich... or would if he had a snowball's chance in hell of winning even one primary?

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Post by The_Fox »

*makes a mental note to print off some bumper stickers and buttons* We could always make you the second Emperor of America. =^-^= Either way, that sounds like a platform I would be very happy with...doubt we'll see anyone with it until you do run though.

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Post by Alfador »

*hold up a sign* [ALLAN FOR EMPEROR]
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Post by Lord_foxfire »

ALL HAIL EMPEROR BOB... er I mean, ALLAN! :D
Because NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!

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Post by Allan_ecker »

Oh, we're also building a lunar colony in the first four years.

If I am made emperor, I will see to it that manned interstellar flight takes place in my lifetime.
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Post by R. Wyatt »

Sweet! You've got a vote from me!

... Or would have, if I could vote in America. So just moral support, then.

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Post by WolfFur »

allan_ecker wrote:Oh, we're also building a lunar colony in the first four years.

If I am made emperor, I will see to it that manned interstellar flight takes place in my lifetime.
Will the ship be filled with telephone sanitizers?

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Post by Allan_ecker »

:o

MMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmaybe.
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