Rework the Dead.. I feel sorrow for the dead furs...

JD · Post by JD » Thu Feb 28, 2002 6:46 am

On the subject of 'David the art god'...

I've been browsing furry archives and the like for ten years now (help me I am in hell) and through all the garbage I've shifted through, have come to define certain basic norms of 'goodness'.

First one has to face the fact that most furry stuff online these days, is just utter garbage. Some of the long-running web-comics aren't drawn half as good as the early Dilberts, and those were pretty bad. Most of the art in the archives is just a waste of disk space, and would have a better home stuck to the door of a fridge somewhere.

With this background, it isn't difficult to deduce that it doesn't take much to be 'good' when drawing furries. The bar has been lowered to a level where you can step over it. Compared to this background, yes, David is an art god.

Unfortunately, my disk space is limited, as is my patience, so I've been as cruel as to dismiss with this relativistic standpoint, and now compare furry artwork to any other artwork that is floating around the web.

Based on all of this, I deem David's artwork to be good. Not bad, not great, but good.

One of the most important points is that his characters actually look the same from one picture to the other. Sounds simple enough maybe, but is actually not all that easy to achieve. Look at 60% of all webcomics for affirmation.

Another important thing, is that David has learned how to express a wide variety of emotions through his characters. The only time you see an ambivalent expression, is when he was trying to give you one. With many of the other artists you are left guessing: is she happy, or is it gas?

Personal style is also important, and David has mastered that as well. He has a consistant style of his own, and doesn't just struggle to get something on the paper. The end result is not 'something', it is David's style, which anyone who has seen it can recognise with ease.

The anatomy of the characters can still be a bit hazy at times, but luckily, many of his creations aren't all that natural, so conventional anatomy ceases being a valid point. Also, the toony style gives vast liberties in any case.

Just to clarify on the last point, I do not expect ANY kind of realism from David's drawings, but I do expect consistancy, for him to keep with the artistic rules that he has set for himself. It is staying within those that matters.

So all in all, what makes David good, in my eyes, is that he has achieved consistancy on many levels. He is still a 'work in progress' in the sense that you can see his basic skills (as opposed to style) still developing, but that is a good thing in itself. He IS developing, he IS becoming more skilled, and he is Not stuck on his current level. In two to five years from now, I believe he will be ready to start looking for someone to publish his stuff for real.

So why this analysis on 'why David is better than a can of Spam?' Well boys and girls, I'd just like to ask you to keep your hats on. Calling David's art 'the best' or 'perfection' is one of the worst disservices you can do to him.

It is that kind of unrealistic hero worship, that Has stunted the artistic growth of so many a furry artist, and left them as the crap-merchants that they are today. They Believe that they are the best, and so, crank out the same shit year after year, without Any signs of improvement. Also, if you try to offer them even the slightest hint of criticism, they'll throw a big fit at you, and send all their fanboys after you. You are just insulting them because they Are perfect, after all...and the fact that most seven year olds draw better is not important.

So, considering the way that many of David's stories concentrate on tearing down all the superficial bullshit that is choking this world, and exposing the red, wet core of things...lets not add to the bullshit, shall we?

The saving grace here is that David has a fairly realistic view of his capabilities, and is not too ready to see himself as perfection incarnate. Yes, you can see that ghost of low self-esteem dragging him down sometimes, but he has Karma to chase that away...and believe you me, what she can't handle, your praise won't change either.

Now I am not saying that you shouldn't praise the man; he's human, he likes praise like the rest of us...but don't go overboard, use some common sense. If you want to call something great, call his Stories that. It's the writing behind the images that I personally find to be Great. That, is what rocks my world.

A book of blood - JD

-----

"Give me time I will be clear.
Given time you'll understand
What possesses me to right what you have suffered.
I'm in this mood because of scorn.
I'm in a mood for total war.
To the darkened skies once more and ever onward."
-Darkangel; VNV Nation-

Ashton Webster · Post by **Ashton Webster** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 7:21 am

Dave's art isn't the best you can see, but I like it more than any other's art. Dunno why...

DavidHopkins · Post by **DavidHopkins** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:00 am

I know I'm still a work in progress, but then I don't mind sunshine in my ass folks;) It has been my expereance that the exact oposite of praise that have killed off most of the good artists. But I'm looking forward to seeing how I draw in five years;) (Then I'll redo RTD again;)

Bustercharlie · Post by **Bustercharlie** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:20 am

gestalt

[ This Message was edited by: bustercharlie on 2002-03-23 11:52 ]

Bustercharlie · Post by **Bustercharlie** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:27 am

gestalt

[ This Message was edited by: bustercharlie on 2002-03-23 11:52 ]

Bustercharlie · Post by **Bustercharlie** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:33 am

gestalt

[ This Message was edited by: bustercharlie on 2002-03-23 11:53 ]

Ashton Webster · Post by **Ashton Webster** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:49 am

OK, I was exaggerating a bit, but like I said, I like Dave's style of drawing more than any other's and I don't even know why.

Cypress · Post by **Cypress** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 1:32 pm

I like it, wont go into extreme detail but, I like his work... ever think of writing a script?

ZOMBIE USER 6344 · Post by **ZOMBIE USER 6344** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 1:48 pm

Ok JD, you have a REAL good point! *bow*

I was overreacting slightly, because i really, really, REALLY like David's art and his stories, especially RTD. I went like crazy when i saw the redo sketches, and I was in the sky for some hours

I have seen many good artists on the web, better and more realistic than David's art, but it is his style that makes him my favourite!

David's art is not extremly good, i agree on that, but his characters is ALIVE and all that *points to JD's post*, and the stories are good. More than good.

I might not 'worship' him as an 'art god' as I said before, but I _really_ like his art.

Bet i've said that too many times now, but in my opinion, its worth it

So please keep it up David, because you know we like your work, and it will only get better!

And thanks to you JD, for clearing up my head

Garoshy · Post by **Garoshy** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 10:24 am

On 2002-02-28 11:27, bustercharlie wrote:

Due, Laz is a real person.. he does his own art.... i'm sure kyle would be be creeped out

his homepage is down

http://www.yerf.com/wallkyle/

Here is a picture of Laz hugging me
awww

Well I should have known better... My lust for making this picture has suddenly disapeard... how selfish of me for not to thinking of asking...

JD · Post by JD » Sat Mar 02, 2002 5:00 am

Hey Buster,
since I was one of the people quoted in full, I'm a bit flattered, but seriously, the basic rule is that the quote should never be longer than your own reply. Just gets awfully cluttered when you get to see the same message several times over on the same page.

Blind in Texas - JD

Foddercat · Post by **Foddercat** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 12:07 pm

Cypress · Post by **Cypress** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 5:46 pm

Cypress eyes the cupcake and thinks up a hypocritical plot to get the cupcake all for himself! Cypress quickly composes himself and thinks up a diplomatic way of getting said cupcake.

Cypress: "Haha!" Hed struck gold.

Foddercat: "Hey that's not yours! givit back!"

Cypress: "Oh, but in exchange for the cupcake, I'll give you yogurt!"

Foddercat: "I'm not THAT crazy for yogurt you know."

Cypress: "Um... yeah, but the container is diamond incrusted!"

Foddercat: "... I have reconsidered your offer and with great personal loss I am forced to accept your offer."

Sorry Dav, but to the victor go the cupcakes!

Mmmm... what is a lifetime of debt compared to M&M cupcakes?

Foddercat · Post by **Foddercat** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:34 pm

Foddercat returns from the bakery with three cup cakes, feeling quite proud of himself. Those diamonds fetched a high price, and it was a small matter to convince the baker to part with the pastries.

Foddercat: *seductively* "Oh Dave! I have THREE cup cakes now!"

Cypress: "What? Where'd you get those!"

So what say you Dave? Continue drawing, and you get not one, not two, but THREE cup cakes!

Cypress · Post by **Cypress** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 8:09 pm

*Grumble* It's not the quantity, it's the quality!... but since they all come from the same source I am at a loss... you win this round!

<-----Evil Smirk

_________________
Arena Master
_________________
What happens when you die? Flip the switch and find out!

[ This Message was edited by: Cypress on 2002-03-02 20:11 ]

Vazagi · Post by **Vazagi** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 4:14 am

To return to the original discussion about Dave's art, i personally prefer good writing and characters i can love and/or hate to snappy art (And yes, Jack fits all three nicely

). Its just like computer games, good graphics doesn't make a winner...

Cypress · Post by **Cypress** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 7:48 am

Slaps himself back to reality.

Yup, usualy big flashy games are for over comensation of something lacking... like a plot or dialogue.

*Ahem,* ALL YOUR BASES ARE NOW BELONG TO US!

Need I say more?

Vazagi · Post by **Vazagi** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 10:23 am

Its "All your base are belong to us", but other than that i agree...

Foddercat · Post by **Foddercat** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 10:45 am

What you say?

Vazagi · Post by **Vazagi** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 10:50 am

You are on the way to destruction.