Advice? (Newbie pains)

IceMania · Post by **IceMania** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 1:13 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Yahtzee:
I've lost count of how many comic web directories I've submitted to. I always seem to get this impression that no-one gives a tinker's cuss about what I'm doing ... is it just a case of 'keep churning out the comics and hope for the best'? At what point do other people start sending fan mail and using your characters in their comics?Am I too unknown or too impatient?Is there life on other planets?Does my bum look big in this?Anyone got any success stories they can reassure me with?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Are these your goals when you started your strip, not very good onces. You should first of all do the strip for fun and don't worrie about the readership, it will grow, with time. But it will, some people just read, do nothing else, don't even post on message board.I'm not doing Icelandic Mania to aquire anything but fun of it. But I always welcome friendly mails, flames go to the junk (Specially after the twenty I got after one strip I did)
I also have a stoy page now at my page, also there I'm only doing it to have fun. I can only hope that at least one person read my work <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif"> but if that one person likes my work, I will contine <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin ... IceMania------------------
Visit the Mania and <A HREF="http://icelandicmania.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>be maniated be really maniated</A>Also check out his stories at <A HREF="http://icelandicmania.keenspace.com/Mylair.html" TARGET=_blank>his lair</A> Brought to you by Askre...err IceMania...errr Hermann...Ah just the crazy Icelandic werewolf who lurks the contrieside of Iceland.

Maboo · Post by **Maboo** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 1:45 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Yahtzee:
I've lost count of how many comic web directories I've submitted to. I always seem to get this impression that no-one gives a tinker's cuss about what I'm doing ... is it just a case of 'keep churning out the comics and hope for the best'? At what point do other people start sending fan mail and using your characters in their comics?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah well, it takes time... I was lucky because I started receiving feedback and mail quite soon after Blotto Street started. However, that's probably due to the fact that I'd already been pretty busy on the Keenspot forums beforehand, and people who were familar with me from there read my comic. They even LIKED it, for all I know, they may even still LIKE it!! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">. Five people sending fan mails (and a couple of feedbacks) in 100 days is actually more than respectable in my books, and I do have one of the top 20 busiest forums on the Space. However, a busy forum does not necessarily mean a quality comic *ahem*. Also, if you can get the right people interested, they will tell other people about it.I got my first cameo from <A HREF="http://kitsune76.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>C.Ulture Shocked</A> in response to a cameo I did of Selena's characters. If used with discretion, a good cameo can win you readership. If however, a cartoonist starts out with about ten cameos every week, that can do more harm than good. Cameos need to be used with discretion, otherwise the comic begins to get a reputation as a desperate publicity-seeker and people lose interest in it or only glance at it when a favourite comic is cameoed. Much more effective is fan art - if you submit fan art to a strip you really enjoy, and it is good art or amusing or the recipent's a lovely person, then it is almost certainly going to be posted in the Fan Art section. Some cartoonists even post a link to your comic on their front page to acknowledge their new fan art.I'm fortunate and privileged enough to have a guest strip for <A HREF="http://www.crfh.net" TARGET=_blank>College Roomies From Hell!!!</A> recently put in the archives of that comic with an accompanying link, along with the guest strips of other artists, including Clint of <A HREF="http://smapdi.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Smapdi</A>, Calli of <A HREF="http://calliope.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Pocket</A> and Erik of <A HREF="http://forsooth.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Forsooth!</A>. (as well as one from Nick of The Bad Boys of Computer Science).This was an unofficial project however, organised by *ahem* some British bloke *ahem*, and done by members of the CRFH forum, while Maritza was on a week's hiatus, so we're just really lucky that when she came back, she liked what we'd done, and put them in the CRFH archives. That was just sheer good luck for what was basically a labour of love.However, there are quite a lot of comics that fall by the wayside even though they may do a good job, for the simple reason that they just, sadly, don't "click.". It may be due to bad art, though that, as evidenced by strips like Arrogance in Simplicity and Triange & Robert, does not necessarily mean a comic automatically flops. It may be because of poor writing (which is much more likely to kill a comic - a lack of humour or awful writing can destroy the best-looking comic.). Of course, there are exceptions. Like the f****** abomination known as Pokey the Penguin.Basically, all I can say is: keep working on the comic, keep a link to it in your signature, visit comic chatrooms, participate in the online comic community as much as you can, make sure you're keeping it going. Don't just apply to comic directories, apply to search engines as well like Altavista and others. Even the crappiest search engine can be worth it if it gets at least one reader, who may like it enough to respond positively. The best thing is to AVOID being spamlicious.Mab------------------
<A HREF="http://blottostreet.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Blotto Street</A> - The most important British webcomic about student life you'll EVER read.

Seven3 · Post by **Seven3** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 2:19 am

Like IceMania, I'm doing <A HREF="http://portside.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>PortSide</A> for the love of it. Whatching my stats grow month by month is a bonus.As for fan art and cameos, there's no set time, people will just do them when they see something they like. It was four months before I got my first (and only) <A HREF="http://fightcastorevade.keenspace.com/d/20001206.html" TARGET=_blank>cameo.</A>You've only been up a week, so give it time. It's a good comic, they will come. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">------------------
Time will tell. Sooner or later, time will tell - Albert Einstein, Red Alert.
Don't Panic. - Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy.
Spam Works(tm) - Overloaded billboard, <A HREF="http://portside.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>PortSide</A>
__|__P /_._
. |/ .. . |/
. / . .. / _
A pic from the first violent video game, Axe. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">[This message has been edited by Seven3 (edited 12-27-2000).]

SuperJoe · Post by **SuperJoe** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 2:56 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Yahtzee:
Am I too unknown or too impatient?Is there life on other planets?Does my bum look big in this?Anyone got any success stories they can reassure me with?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I know you now. Watch out.There's life on Uranus. Get it?Yes. Sorry.Somewhere. But not me. Not yet.
------------------
All for me and none for you!
<A HREF="http://jwalkin.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>J-Walkin'</A> is where the heart is.
<A HREF="http://comicollage.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>Comicollage</A> has seven different cartoonists.
Neat, eh?

Rtist54 · Post by **Rtist54** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 3:34 am

Yeah, give it some time. Take advantage of the forums. If you aim for readership and fan art, you'll just end up very frustrated. Which, in turn, will probably make you do comics that are just no good. Do it cuz you love it, and it'll happen.
Also, you have to keep in mind that a lot of the toonists are incredibly busy. I know that there are about a dozen guest strips I wanna do, but I just don't have the time right now.Pauly------------------
Any artist can call their piece "Untitled", but there's only one <A HREF="http://untitledagain.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Untitled Again</A>.

Gravity · Post by **Gravity** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 9:54 am

I agree with Pauly above,--Do it cause you love it. Find your audience later. Oh, and there are a ton of strips I'd love to look at but I just don't have the time!- So i wouldn't expect a huge readership from other working artists unless you make friends with them. Keep your hat on though-You'll make it.------------------
D.J. Coffman
<A HREF="http://gravity.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>READ GRAVITY!</A>
<A HREF="http://gravity.keenspace.com/crew.htm" TARGET=_blank>MEET THE CHARACTERS!</A>

Yahtzee · Post by **Yahtzee** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 11:34 am

I've lost count of how many comic web directories I've submitted to. I always seem to get this impression that no-one gives a tinker's cuss about what I'm doing ... is it just a case of 'keep churning out the comics and hope for the best'? At what point do other people start sending fan mail and using your characters in their comics?Am I too unknown or too impatient?Is there life on other planets?Does my bum look big in this?Anyone got any success stories they can reassure me with?------------------
"I AM INVINCIBLE!"
http://yahtzee.keenspace.com

Deathbringer · Post by **Deathbringer** » Wed Dec 27, 2000 12:51 pm

Take the sex pistols philosphy
"No body likes us-AND WE DONT CARE!"
-who needs fans after all?------------------

Comes it in sunshine? In the tempest's thrill?
I cannot tell--but it the earth shall see!
I am an Anarchist! Wherefore I will
Not rule, and also ruled I will not be!<A HREF="http://members.fortunecity.com/deathbringer666" TARGET=_blank>my page!</A>

Matt Trepal · Post by **Matt Trepal** » Thu Dec 28, 2000 7:29 am

I don't know that I can add anything new here, but I will reiterate some of the ideas.If you ain't in this because you love it or have a deep, driving, perverse need to do it, you shouldn't be in it. Dont' look at it as a contest. A statistically insignificant number of us will ever get big recognition/money/fame/chicks out of this. The only thing you're assured of getting is self-satisfaction.Quality, quality, quality. Now, this doesn't mean you've got to be Frank Miller, since this would certainly exclude me, but you can not churn out half-assed crap and expect people to show up and read. And, as Maboo pointed out, quality does not necessarily mean fine art. There's a long list of excellent comics that have art that can only be described as "minimal." Writing is what will make or break a strip, and even that is up for debate. Mab hates "Pokey the Penguin," Damonk loves it, what I've seen of it I've found mildly amusing. Or take <A HREF="http://www.punkasspunk.com" TARGET=_blank>Floating Henry Rollins Head Haiku</A>, which has to be seen to be believed. The most spectacular draftsmanship will not save horrid writing, while excellent writing will redeem sub-par linework.Now that you've joined KeenSpace, be active; it's an excellent way to spread the word, although not the be-all and end-all. You don't have to post in every thread and participate in every event, but make yourself visible and put your URL in your signature. Post in the forums of comics you enjoy. Especially at the beginning, a number of your readers will be other cartoonists in the Space unless you bring a ready-made fan base. It worked for me (sort of), and if/when a fellow Spacer or Spotter plugs your site because they like it that'll help, and any new visitor is a potential regular reader.And doing it for fan art is absolutely the wrong reason (IMNSHO). If anything, do fan art for others. That way, you boost two egos, yours and theirs. I would put a rant here about not soliciting guest/fan art, except that I did just that. Only I did it on my own site and forum and in emails, not in the general forum. Fan art should be spontaneous and unsolicited, otherwise it loses its impact.As for responses, I've gotten slightly more that zero, and I've been doing this since August! Off the top of my head, I've gotten five specific positive responses from people I don't know personally, as well as some passing encouragement from a few others. All were KeenSpacers, but I know more people read my strip than this handful and my family. I interpret this to mean that I'm doing a passable job but not creating anything that is so spectacular that it warrants a comment. I'm not offended by this. Think of it this way: No news is good news. At least you're not pissing people off so that you drown in a deluge of flames.Above all, have fun! If you're not having fun at it, it'll show through in the strip, and your readers (the few that you might have) won't have fun, either. That means they won't come back. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Seven3:
As for fan art and cameos, there's no set time, people will just do them when they see something they like. It was four months before I got my first (and only) <A HREF="http://fightcastorevade.keenspace.com/d/20001206.html" TARGET=_blank>cameo.</A><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
BTW Seven^3, I'm still waiting for the Giant Space Hamsters!
------------------
<A HREF="http://fightcastorevade.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Fight Cast Or Evade</A>
Fantasy-adventure for the e-commerce age!Now with 100% of the USDA recommended daily allowance of nipples![This message has been edited by Matt Trepal (edited 12-28-2000).]

Yahtzee · Post by **Yahtzee** » Thu Dec 28, 2000 10:39 am

Dammit, you're right! There's more to life than popularity and rave reviews! I've just gotta put myself right into YTOTW and make it the best it could possibly be! Thanks guys, I feel much better.------------------
"I AM INVINCIBLE!"
http://yahtzee.keenspace.com

PDI · Post by **PDI** » Thu Dec 28, 2000 11:47 am

Nude layouts in the forum couldn't hurt ...Well ... obviously they could ...Well, forget I spoke.
------------------
Scott Maddix
<A HREF="http://PDI.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Psychic Dyslexia Institute:</A>
Where we all have special special powers

Seven3 · Post by **Seven3** » Fri Dec 29, 2000 1:44 am

I'm getting there, but I don't know when it'll be. The plot's taken a on a life of it's own, and I'm not sure where it's going anymore.In the mean time <A HREF="http://portside.keenspace.com/misc/gsh.jpg" TARGET=_blank>this</A> should keep you happy.------------------
Time will tell. Sooner or later, time will tell - Albert Einstein, Red Alert.
Don't Panic. - Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy.
Spam Works(tm) - Overloaded billboard, <A HREF="http://portside.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>PortSide</A>
__|__P /_._
. |/ .. . |/
. / . .. / _
A pic from the first violent video game, Axe.

Matt Trepal · Post by **Matt Trepal** » Fri Dec 29, 2000 9:44 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Seven3:
I'm getting there, but I don't know when it'll be. The plot's taken a on a life of it's own, and I'm not sure where it's going anymore.In the mean time <A HREF="http://portside.keenspace.com/misc/gsh.jpg" TARGET=_blank>this</A> should keep you happy.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah, perfect! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif"> Thanks!------------------
<A HREF="http://fightcastorevade.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Fight Cast Or Evade</A>
Fantasy-adventure for the e-commerce age!Now with 100% of the USDA recommended daily allowance of nipples!