Well, Well...[11/8/01]

Spider-Man · Post by **Spider-Man** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 8:24 am

This is interesting. I will admit that finding out that Jones and the FIB were [seemingly] behind it all was somewhat dissapointing at first, but then I realized that I need to have alot more faith in T. In FANS! storys, things are seldom what they seem to be at first-even Jones himself proved to be deeper than a cliched Generic Government Badguy.
So now I just look forward to the resolution of the plots laid out by todays strips. Was the FIB really behind this whole debacle? If so, why? Was it just to get at the Fans, or do they have some larger, more far reaching, goal in mind? (Perhaps the "changed goals" Jones refers to?) And if the FiB was behind this, were the "supporting characters" [Gone-Ralph, Sorryman, etc.] willing participants or unknowing dupes?
Or, perhaps, the FIB is not behind this after all. We've seen them do some pretty impressive stuff, but some things, like Earth's ring, might be beyond them[ Unless they has acess to creatures/aliens/etc that could do something like that.] Perhaps the FIB caught on to the odd goings-on, and the books on Jones' desk were his attempt to catch up on what the heck was happening. So many questions, so many potential plotlines...

FlyingFish · Post by **FlyingFish** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 9:23 am

I think you're reading too much into it. If it was becoming clear that the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy was being re-enacted the world over, and your job was to deal with it, wouldn't you do some research?Incidentally, I notice that the books weren't renamed to protect the innocent. Are the titles not under copyright?

Shatteredtower · Post by **Shatteredtower** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 9:30 am

I suspect they weren't behind it at all - that the reason the series was on the table was because someone was desperately seeking to do some damage control, and needed a bit of reference material. The only thing suspicious is that I know very few people who could read that series in under a day. Still, it's hard to say how much advance notice the FIB had on this. The game didn't seem to start overnight. There's also the matter of consequences, if you think that Sorryman was pushed into the role, rather than directed according to his natural inclinations. Destroying his business for being twisted by a story = a bad thing.

Spider-Man · Post by **Spider-Man** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 4:13 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Random Nerd:
Poor Jones.He tries to do his job, but you can't really stop something on this scale with the sort of tools he's likely to have.Don't let the Reality Deviants get you down, man!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Kewl, a fellow White Wolf Mage fan. Nice to see I'm not the only one who thinks Jones and Co.= the Technocracy. Spooky, monolithic exterior, but inside are lots of people who are just trying to do the right thing, sometimes with no regard to personal comfort.

Random Nerd · Post by **Random Nerd** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 10:11 am

Poor Jones.He tries to do his job, but you can't really stop something on this scale with the sort of tools he's likely to have.Don't let the Reality Deviants get you down, man!

Amorph · Post by **Amorph** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 10:34 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Are the titles not under copyright?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Words and short phrases cannot be copyrighted. That's what trademark law is for. Trademarks can be used freely to refer to the product they identify - that's the point, after all.
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James"Without death there would be very little progress." - Steve Jobs

Maccabee · Post by **Maccabee** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 4:17 am

I think there's still quite a bit of potential in Snape. I am looking forward to the film, as I think Allan Rickman will play the part quite well.White Wolf fans! I do enjoy their games, even if the rules are kind of -- well, I guess "sloppy" is the nicest way to put it. Their background material is self-contradictory, but I've managed to satisfactorally combine the different cosmologies in an all-inclusive self-consistent "Everybody is wrong. Everybody" theory.Anyone get the Gurahl book for Werewolf? Notice how they left out big chunks of the rules entirely? They really need a decent editor.Maccabee"Do you feel depressed, are you tragically hip?
Do you listen to the music of Robert Smith?
Do you hate the world, hate society?
Then maybe baby you can get along with me."-- "Goth Song"

Czhorat · Post by **Czhorat** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 5:54 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Spider-Man:

Kewl, a fellow White Wolf Mage fan. Nice to see I'm not the only one who thinks Jones and Co.= the Technocracy. Spooky, monolithic exterior, but inside are lots of people who are just trying to do the right thing, sometimes with no regard to personal comfort.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The neat thing about Jones is that he isn't just a villain. He's as real a character as Rikk is, even if we sometimes disagree with his goals or the means he uses to achieve them. There's nothing in literature less interesting than a villain who's evil simply for the sake of evil, with no apparent redeeming qualities. As an aside, this is my biggest complaint with the Harry Potter books -- the bad guys are so irredeemably bad..

Judy · Post by **Judy** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 6:56 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Czhorat:
 As an aside, this is my biggest complaint with the Harry Potter books -- the bad guys are so irredeemably bad..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I was _so_ hoping that Snape would stay interesting after the end of the first book. No such luck.Judy

Czhorat · Post by **Czhorat** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 7:12 am

SPOILERS FOR HARRY POTTER, BOOKS 1 and 2!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Judy:
 I was _so_ hoping that Snape would stay interesting after the end of the first book. No such luck.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I only read the first two books, but was very disappointed with how Snape was handled in The Chamber of Secrets. To me, one of the best things about the first book was this character who seemed creepy and nasty, but wasn't the real villain -- indeed, he actually helped protect Harry against Voldemoort! Rowlings seemed to jump right back into having Snape be a "bad guy" in book #2, and for no real good reason. As you said, a pity.

Aris Katsaris · Post by **Aris Katsaris** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 7:21 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Czhorat:
Rowlings seemed to jump right back into having Snape be a "bad guy" in book #2, and for no real good reason. As you said, a pity.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Aye... I agree on the whole. But he does show again very solid signs of interestingness in book #4 I think...------------------
Aris Katsaris - <A HREF="http://users.otenet.gr/~katsaris/" TARGET=_blank>The Home of Lost Tales</A>

Tom the Fanboy · Post by **Tom the Fanboy** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 10:39 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Aris Katsaris:
 Aye... I agree on the whole. But he does show again very solid signs of interestingness in book #4 I think...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Quite so quite so, but all of this theorizing on book 4 can be put to rest by somone with a copy telling those of who read it.....was he there?You know where I mean. As in, did he GO.If he did then he is pretty much unsalvagable, but if he didn't he is still a good character to use and expand.------------------
Tom the Fanboy
http://www.geocities.com/tee-moss[begin Fans! code]
E(xkodt)M+FF+++A++W+++FCt++(s)Ip20000406f1mcKt+cCp- -bw++Ll++
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Maxd · Post by **Maxd** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 12:58 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tom the Fanboy:
 ...was he there?You know where I mean. As in, did he GO.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think the denouement of book 4 makes it pretty clear that either he wasn't there, or if he was it was as a mole. Either way, he seems to be very clearly living on the edge. That makes him very interesting, to me.
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Expensive equipment won't make up for lack of talent.

Tom the Fanboy · Post by **Tom the Fanboy** » Sat Nov 10, 2001 1:38 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Maccabee:
I think there's still quite a bit of potential in Snape. I am looking forward to the film, as I think Allan Rickman will play the part quite well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, but I keep expecting him to say
"Mr. Potter, just what are you going to do with the ffffffffish?"Maybe that's just because I remember him from Dogma the most.
heh heh.------------------
Tom the Fanboy
http://www.geocities.com/tee-moss[begin Fans! code]
E(xkodt)M+FF+++A++W+++FCt++(s)Ip20000406f1mcKt+cCp- -bw++Ll++
[end Fans! code]

Bevan · Post by **Bevan** » Sat Nov 10, 2001 9:07 am

Yeah, White Wolf does get pretty contradictory. Have you noticed that the world view of Werewolf does NOT work with Mage or Changeling?See, the thing about the Technocracy, is that they think that all supernaturals are preying on humanity and stopping them from being the best they can be, they basically believe that all the supernaturals are the servants of the Wyrm.So why don't the technomancers send a few bombs the way of Pentex? (According to Werewolf, the Weaver is the most powerful of the Triat, and the Technocracy are her most loyal servants)And according to Changeling, fomori are really the fomorians, ancient enemies of the Changelings, placed in the bodies of humans by a force known as the Dark (their name for the Wyrm). That being the case, why don't armies of trolls go hunting for fomori?

Maccabee · Post by **Maccabee** » Sat Nov 10, 2001 11:07 am

And Vampire cosmology assumes the biblical theory of creation, while werewolf lore specifically rejects it.And there are problems with rules. The way the game is written, a person with ordinary manual dexterity and minimal firearms training cannot under any circumstances kill a person with a single shot from a light pistol. Unlikely is fine. Impossible isn't. You need to tweak the rules heavily when you play (I use the "rule of 10s" under all circumstances to allow for extraordinary successes, even though the rules say you can only do that if you've specialized in whatever talent or skill you're using).Still, it can be lots of fun. I miss my regular vampire character (Tatiana) and my regular werewolf character (Doesn't Do Windows) a lot, and would love to play again. It's been more than a year now, I think. Bleah. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/frown.g ... Maccabee------------------
Risus est telum ultimum contra tyrranem. Nullus dictator exercitibus allibus ridiculem vulgi longe resistare potest.

Eridan · Post by **Eridan** » Sat Nov 10, 2001 12:25 pm

Different people wrote the two games. And, ah... well, they were originally two different games. It wasn't until after the bases of Werewolf were laid down that they decided to put them into the same universe. So, there's a LOT of contradictory info in each game. It's REALLY amusing at a LARP when you get a werewolf player and a vampire in character debating theology.

Bevan · Post by **Bevan** » Sat Nov 10, 2001 12:30 pm

The different histories, cosmologies, etc. are okay because they are in the background. Vampires believe that they came from Caine, but they might be wrong (or Caine isn't the person they think he is).But there logically should be more interaction between the different groups. Fomori logically would be fighting mages (both Technocracy and Traditions) and changelings (especially trolls).