"Sexual tension in shoujou manga and early American cinema"

Isobelfox · Post by **Isobelfox** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 1:20 am

Okay, that went completely over my head. I understand that Shanna is totally & completely out of touch with her sexuality, but not knowing anything about shoujou manga, I have no way to tell if she's trying to explain to Shanna that she's really sublimating her feelings for Will, or if she's trying to educate her on lesbian popular culture, or what. It's pretty obvious that she's trying to teach her something, but I can't tell what.Enlighten me, o great manga-knowing ones?

Maccabee · Post by **Maccabee** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 2:45 am

Sorry to disappoint people, but "shoujo manga" translates as "girl comics," not "girl-girl comics." Not that there's never any overlap...Shoujo manga tend to emphasize character development and romance over action, though action is hardly banned from the genre. There's a wonderful moment in Akazukin Chacha (a shoujo anime) where a character is stomping furiously down the hall when she remembers she's in a shoujo piece and floats off-camera in a cloud of cherry blossoms. I always loved self-parody.Curiously enough, I actually did do a term paper on manga and anime, though the thrust of mine was sociological rather than psychological. It was primarily about artistic crossfeeding, how Japanese style was influenced by American work and now influences American work in turn.Maccabee, who got to read hentai comics for credit <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/tongue.gif">
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Risus est telum ultimum contra tyrranem. Nullus dictator exercitibus allibus ridiculem vulgi longe resistare potest.[This message has been edited by Maccabee (edited 10-05-2001).]

FrustratedPilot · Post by **FrustratedPilot** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 5:36 am

Well, it's also like American soap opera plots (they like to use this method as well) when you have a pair of lovers who spend the entire saga trying to find the words to tell each other that they are in love.Of course, the minute they do express their love for one another, the story is over. :

Bevan · Post by **Bevan** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 6:04 am

Well in Kare Kano, once they admit their love for each other, the best part of the series starts.

Wish · Post by **Wish** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 6:50 am

Ha! Knew it was only a matter of time before someone used that quote as a topic title. I wanna read that paper.. Knowing T's affection for the series, I'd be surprised if Ranma 1/2 didn't show up in there somewhere. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">-Wish
Self-Repeating Immortal Franken-Ant

Kepulver · Post by **Kepulver** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 1:52 am

Maccabee: Thanks for the welcome! And no, it wasn't sleep deprivation talking, I think Faans is great. I remember reading the first issue back a looong time ago when it was going to be a print comic and I have to say I'm glad to see it's online instead! I think the online lay out is a lot more visually interesting than it would be in print and...oh who'm I kidding, I can read it for free! Whooo!!Seriously, Mr. Campbell, you've got a great comic here. It reminds me of the seriousness of Fallen Angels by Niven/Barnes/Pournelle and the gentle humor of Bimbos of the Death Sun and Zombies of the Gene Pool. That and the Harlan Ellison parody rocked my world.Kathy

FlyingFish · Post by **FlyingFish** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 2:15 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by T Campbell:
You're also dead right. Shanna's a closeted fan, and she's also been a closeted heterosexual. Katherine's guiding her out of both closets.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm still not sure I understand why Shanna was "closeting" her heterosexuality in the first place. I've got a few vague ideas, but they don't seem to make much sense... ...then again, I don't exactly think on the same plane as Shanna anyway.

Schol-R-LEA · Post by **Schol-R-LEA** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 5:22 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by FlyingFish:
 I'm still not sure I understand why Shanna was "closeting" her heterosexuality in the first place. I've got a few vague ideas, but they don't seem to make much sense... ...then again, I don't exactly think on the same plane as Shanna anyway.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My impression of it is that she was using her supposed homosexuality - which she apparently never expected anyone to probe too deeply into - as a way of avoiding having to confront her attraction to specific men, in this case Will. After all, she couldn't help it if all the women around her were straight, could she?I wonder what she'd have done if someone like Meighan or Alisin had called her bluff - "I'm sorry, your just not my type" is what I guess she would say, a perfectly legitimate if all too convenient answer. Ah, but what if she'd already said she was attracted to this other person, not expecting any serious response? Oh, the tricky webs we weave... On the other hand, I'm still wondering if there might be at least a little truth to it. Shanna's mind seems to be a natural generator of strange loops; she's got more double-crosses in her psyche than the collected works of Ian Fleming and Tom Clancy. But Kath seems to understand her pretty well, so I'm probably just projecting again.
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Schol-R-LEA;2 ELF JAM LCF BiWM MGT GS
First Speaker, Last Eristic Church of Finagle and Holy Bisexuality
The greatest strengh of the Conspiracy is that it doesn't exist.
The greatest weakness of the Conspiracy is that it does.

Maccabee · Post by **Maccabee** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 6:38 am

Welcome aboard, Kathy. Glad you like the comic, and hope that's not just the sleep deprivation talking.Maccabee
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Risus est telum ultimum contra tyrranem. Nullus dictator exercitibus allibus ridiculem vulgi longe resistare potest.

T Campbell · Post by **T Campbell** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 8:09 am

You're also dead right. Shanna's a closeted fan, and she's also been a closeted heterosexual. Katherine's guiding her out of both closets.

Aris Katsaris · Post by **Aris Katsaris** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:34 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by T Campbell:
You're also dead right. Shanna's a closeted fan, and she's also been a closeted heterosexual. Katherine's guiding her out of both closets.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Heh. Is this a weird policy-change, to explain stuff we might still be debating about? <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">I think most of us weren't certain yet if Kath was right about Shanna or not... but you've just confirmed it.

Kepulver · Post by **Kepulver** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 11:53 am

I may be off here, but I don't think Shanna's a lesbian. I think what she is is a closeted fan. She used to think fan-stuff was cool when she was little (and wanted to marry Mickey Mouse) but as she got older and saw how fans are seen by the outside world, she pushed herself away from that, pretending that she didn't really like that 'geeky' stuff...and now, she's being pulled back into it and it's scary to her because giving in to the goofiness of fandom brings up the fear that she'll go over the edge like her mother did. But then again, that's just the thought of someone who has managed in the last six hours to read the entire series, except for the cross-over which I'm gonna read tomorrow 'cause sleep is where I'm a viking....Seriously, I love this comic.Kathy

GodaiYuhsaku · Post by **GodaiYuhsaku** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 8:56 am

Oh incase anyone is wondering,Yuri and Shoujo-ai are terms used to refer to girl-girl manga. with Yuri being the more ummm graphic. hehe
Godai

Manticoraus · Post by **Manticoraus** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 4:46 am

Scho admit it you were wrong on the Kath deal.]
justbareleelordthat was a close one. Okay okay wheww. I am ooooo kay I can handle this.Its Will...that's ooookay...After all its just an itch. A scratch or some ointment might treat it away. Say a fling with T...no I am holding for Rumy and Tim...Hmm well perhaps Guthrie.Hmmm