Rule Number Four....

Strangeone · Post by **Strangeone** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 8:56 am

As it stands now, it's pretty much impossible for the Roomies to really be a team. They'd need to be put together in a situation of extraordinarily dire circumstances and realize that that going it alone in any capacity is a bad idea.Margaret realized this, at least in part, with Dave in The Adversary as they were making their way through the woods and evading Satan. Dave continually saved Margaret's life, and when he was in trouble, she rescued him, even turning down an offer from Satan.While reluctant to the idea, she could definitely count on Dave in her times of need. Note that during the fight with the Fans, Margaret saw Rumy about to attack Dave and took her out with a chair. When Alisin downed her, Dave retaliated with an eye blast. At least on the subconscious level, they have a connection that Margaret has only recently barely begun to recognize.At heart, Margaret is still a loner, but she's beginning to learn, even if it does require a lot of hard knocks before it really starts to sink in.P.S.: Rikk really sounded like a geek with his Teamwork speech. I'm not kidding. I was waiting for him to end it with "And knowing is half the battle!"

Maritza_Campos · Post by **Maritza_Campos** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 8:58 am

Well Rikk was certainly trying to help... but he doesn't really know Margaret. She's a rabid individualist. She'll trust only herself. Life has taught her to think like that.Also, she's stubborn. Very very damn stubborn... probably the only reason she's still alive.Maritza
CRFH.net

Spitesprite · Post by **Spitesprite** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 10:24 am

I think the girls are shown walking out with those expressions on their faces just 'cause it creates a great visual contradiction to everything Rikk's saying. Yeah, some team. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">------------------
~*your daily dose of sprightly spite!*~

Tuscahoma · Post by **Tuscahoma** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 10:39 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Maritza_Campos:
Well Rikk was certainly trying to help... but he doesn't really know Margaret. She's a rabid individualist. She'll trust only herself. Life has taught her to think like that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I do think Rikk was right in one thing. She is probably the only one who does stand a chance of uniting the Roomies as a team. Too bad about the trust thing...--Tuscahoma

Eric the red · Post by **Eric the red** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 11:25 am

Dont forget rule seven as well: Never bet with a Sicillian when death is on the line!
"Ha ha-ha ha" Then Eric the Red slumps.

Maccabee · Post by **Maccabee** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 1:19 am

"Love" is a rather flighty word. It can mean so many different things... Wrap up all those definitions into one and I think Rikk is right. You can't be willing to die for someone without loving that person in some way.If Rikk was referring exclusively to romantic love, I think he was wrong about it being impossible for Margaret to be willing to die for Dave without loving him -- but he's right that she does.I think that there's some doubt as to whether Margaret will give into those feelings and establish a lasting relationship with Dave, but I don't doubt that she has them. Oh, and the fact that she does bothers the hell out of her.Maccabee, whose advance knowledge of CRFH will likely expire before the milk in your fridge.------------------
Risus est telum ultimum contra tyrranem. Nullus dictator exercitibus allibus ridiculem vulgi longe resistare potest.

Tuscahoma · Post by **Tuscahoma** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 7:09 am

What might have been, what might be...I hope that Rikk has planted a seed of what might be in Margaret's head (maybe with the added weight of her experience in the Matrix). I also hope that today's discussion with Dave does two things, make him realize that Margaret does love him, and that he can be the way he was in the Matrix (he seemed more sure of himself and his place).--Tuscahoma

Bailesu · Post by **Bailesu** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 7:44 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by James_Rayner:
 "On a Final note, for -future- Engagements with The Gun Nut. Focus more on the better points of her engagement and show her where things went wrong. She had a particular point though. She needs a Team,and to be honest, April, Dave, Roger, and Marsha, ALone, cannot form that team without Mike, who seems to be the evil brains of the outfit. MIke is to Margeret as Rikk (Scuzi, You are) To Katherine. Ones good at campaigns, the other is good the rest of the time. again, It was all a matter of critically made mistakes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Maritza Campos:
 Hehehe... that's hardly a parallel. Mike has a strong personality, enough to become a leader (as he has been sometimes, see Devil's Avocado) but he just can't be a moral leader. He's too evil and tricky for that. Mike is hard to trust. Marsha does because knows Mike won't betray her, but the rest of that possible team is reluctant to follow Mike. On the other hand Margaret, the other strong-enough-to-be-a-leader, isn't used to think in team terms. She's used to be alone, and she's too confident on her fighting skills which causes her roommates to distrusts her decisions. The only one who follows her blindly is Dave... and even HE questions her decisions. April is pretty much dragged into all the adventures under protest, and Roger is too, because he's loyal to the people he considers his friends... but follows reluctantly and feels apart of the rest... he's just TOO weird.In short, they're not a team, and they're not friends, at least, they don't acknowledge themselves as a group. Main difference with the Faans, who trusts their leaders and follow them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think by any reasonable definition of friends, you'd have to consider the CRFH crew to be friends by now. It's a dysfunctional friendship at times, but the six of them have been through too many situations like going down into zombie infested underworlds to rescue one of them's cats to say they aren't friends. This doesn't mean they'd admit it or even understand it. Of course, I am telling the author of the strip that I'm not agreeing with her interpretation of her own strip, which is both arrogant and foolish, but I can't help myself. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">I suppose it would depend in part on one's definition of friendship, though. How are you defining friendship here?

Aardvark · Post by **Aardvark** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 8:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tuscahoma:
I hope that Rikk has planted a seed of what might be in Margaret's head (maybe with the added weight of her experience in the Matrix). I also hope that today's discussion with Dave does two things, make him realize that Margaret does love him, and that he can be the way he was in the Matrix (he seemed more sure of himself and his place).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I fear this projects too much of the Fans dynamic onto the CRFH crowd; as Maritza points out above, they're quite different. Margaret's entire life has been manipulated to program her to trust in no one but herself. In the face of that experience a pep-talk from Rikk is unlikely to affect her attitude toward teamwork. Similarly, I think she's far from loving Dave, although just admitting to herself that she needed him during the Adversary crisis was an enormous step. (I view Rikk's "impossible" comment today as a rare failure of imagination on his part!)The Matrix experience might, however, help Dave become more proactive. Knowing Maritza, this will almost certainly lead to disaster.------------------
aardvark
"Sloppy thinking gets worse over time" - Jenny Holzer

Bevan · Post by **Bevan** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 8:46 am

Mike literally tried to beat Dave to death when he thought Dave was hitting on his little sister.Dave did the same when he thought Mike had screwed up his relationship with Margaret.Friends?

The Dark Otaku · Post by **The Dark Otaku** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 10:24 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bevan:
Mike literally tried to beat Dave to death when he thought Dave was hitting on his little sister.Dave did the same when he thought Mike had screwed up his relationship with Margaret.Friends?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sure. I don't think the real test of friendship is whether or not you fight - I even got into a fistfight once with my then (and still) best friend. The test comes after the fight, and whether you stay friends. Real friends can end up getting mad at each other, even to the point of hatred/physical fighting, but once that fades, the friendship remains, and that's where you can tell the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.
------------------
William & Mary (aka Billberg U) Skiffy member

Bevan · Post by **Bevan** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 10:30 am

Fighting sure, but Mike TRIED TO MURDER DAVE. If nobody had stopped him, he would have beaten Dave to death.Sure he feels guilty about that now, but that's only because he found out that it was Blue hitting on Dave.He tried to kill Dave simply because he thought Dave kissed Blue without her consent. Friends fight friends. Do friends kill friends?

Strangeone · Post by **Strangeone** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 10:44 am

I have to agree that Mike and Dave aren't exactly buddies. As a matter of fact, during the 5-2=0 storyline, the two got into another fight, this time after Dave was tortured by Mike with his truth serum. At the same time, April started a fight with Marsha for insulting Diana in a sensitive way.The only thing that stopped these fights was when they found Diana got hit by a car.