Moving Arts

Muttley · Post by **Muttley** » Sat Jun 02, 2001 3:36 am

I was looking through the archives recently, and was amused, once again, by Tim's "diversion" in "The Most Dangerous Game" an' now I present an interpretive dance of "Battlefield Earth"The awfulness of the resulting image (thank goodness Jason wasn't asked to draw it!), is compounded because, of all the arts, I find that dance is the least likely to move me as a spectator. And I got to wondering why that was (stop now if I'm boring you . . .)arranging a heirarchy of performing arts in ascending order of "effectiveness" (for me)dance
single-frame art (paintings etc)
music (instrumental)
music (vocal)
multi-frame art (comic books,strip cartoons etc)
movies
theatre
text-only stories (novels, short stories etc)
poetryAfter looking at this and drinking a beer or two (Westmalle dubbel - oh, you didn't ask? sorry) I conclude that involvement is the differentiator: I don't feel involved watching a dance performance, but a novel can make me feel as though I'm actually in the scene. But I'm damned if I can tell you why poetry is at the top; it just is, for me. Do you have similar feelings, or is my list tripe? And why do you think some arts affect us more than others?Muttley
Veni, vidi, imbibi

Maccabee · Post by **Maccabee** » Sat Jun 02, 2001 4:36 am

I on the other hand adore dance. I grew up on old musicals (especially the RKO jobbies in glorious black and white) and to me a couple that really clicks on the dance floor is one of the finest expressions of romantic love there is.I think that dance moves beyond the need for words and thinking -- there's something primal about it, no matter how refined and stylized the steps. It seems to directly access the emotions (for me anyway), and the dance numbers are kind of a moment outside reality in those films where you can express something purer.Fred Astaire never even kissed Ginger Rogers in most of their movies together. He didn't have to.Greg, who loves to dance even if he sucks at it------------------
Risus est telum ultimum contra tyrranem. Nullus dictator exercitibus allibus ridiculem vulgi longe resistare potest.

My name is Kenny · Post by **My name is Kenny** » Sat Jun 02, 2001 6:25 am

For me, music would be at the very top of the list. I love this strip, T, but you just can't headbang to it.------------------
I'm so sane it's driving me crazy.

Gwalla · Post by **Gwalla** » Sun Jun 03, 2001 4:21 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Doublespeak:
I almost forgot. I recall somone on here talking about Nero Wolfe. I am interested in reading books about him, so I was wondering if someone could give me a list of his books in order (I always have to read them in order) and where I could get them. Thank ye.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Rex Stout rules! I'll see what I can do...Books by year of publication (short stories listed under the title of the compilation--abbreviations for anthologies given in braces):<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Fer de Lance (1934)
<LI>The League of Frightened Men (1935)
<LI>The Rubber Band (1936)
<LI>The Red Box (1937)
<LI>Too Many Cooks (1938)
<LI>Red Threads (1939) (Inspector Cramer solves a case, not sure if Nero is involved)
<LI>Some Buried Ceasar (1939)
<LI>Over My Dead Body (1939)
<LI>Where There's a Will (1940)
<LI>Black Orchids (1942) contains the stories "Black Orchids" and "Cordially Invited to Meet Death" {BO}
<LI>Not Quite Dead Enough (1944) contains "Not Quite Dead Enough" and "Booby Trap" {NQDE}
<LI>The Silent Speaker (1946)
<LI>Too Many Women (1947)
<LI>And Be A Villain (1948)
<LI>Trouble in Triplicate (1949) contains "Help Wanted, Male", "Instead of Evidence", "Before I Die" {TiT}
<LI>The Gun With Wings (1949)
<LI>Curtains for Three (1950) contains "Bullet for One", "The Gun With Wings", "Disguise For Murder" {Cf3}
<LI>Three Doors to Death (1950) contains "Man Alive", "Omit Flowers", "Door to Death" {3DtD}
<LI>In the Best Families (1950) (mostly Archie solo)
<LI>Murder By the Book (1951)
<LI>Triple Jeopardy (1952) contains "Home to Roost", "The Cop-Killer", "The Squirt and the Monkey" {TJ}
<LI>Prisoner's Base (1952)
<LI>The Golden Spiders (1953)
<LI>Three Men Out (1954) contains "Invitation to Murder", "This Won't Kill You", "The Zero Clue" {3MO}
<LI>The Black Mountain (1954)
<LI>Before Midnight (1955)
<LI>Three Witnesses (1956) contains "When A Man Murders", "The Next Witness", "Die Like a Dog" {3W}
<LI>Might As Well Be Dead (1956)
<LI>Three for the Chair (1957) contains "A Window for Death", "Immune to Murder", "Too Many Detectives" {3ftC}
<LI>If Death Ever Slept (1957)
<LI>And Four to Go (1958) contains "Fourth of July Picnic", "Easter Parade", "Christmas Party" {&4tG}
<LI>Champagne for One (1958)
<LI>Plot it Yourself (1959)
<LI>Three at Wolfe's Door (1960) contains "Poison a la Carte", "The Rodeo Murder", "Method Three for Murder" {3aWD}
<LI>Too Many Clients (1960)
<LI>The Final Deduction (1961)
<LI>Homicide Trinity (1962) contains "Eeny Meeny Murder Mo", "Death of a Demon", "Counterfeit for Murder" {HT}
<LI>Gambit (1962)
<LI>The Mother Hunt(1963)
<LI>Trio for Blunt Instruments (1964) contains "Kill Now--Pay Later", "Murder is Corny", "Blood Will Tell" {TfBI}
<LI>A Right To Die (1964)
<LI>The Doorbell Rang (1965)
<LI>Death of a Doxy (1966)
<LI>The Father Hunt (1968)</UL>Phew!Incidentally, the stories were published somewhat out of order--his compilations in particular tend to overlap quite a bit. So, for completeness' sake, here's a list of the stories in the order in which they "occurred":<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Fer de Lance
<LI>The League of Frightened Men
<LI>The Rubber Band
<LI>The Red Box
<LI>Too Many Cooks
<LI>Red Threads
<LI>Some Buried Ceasar
<LI>Over My Dead Body
<LI>Where There's a Will
<LI>Black Orchids (from BO)
<LI>Cordially Invited to Meet Your Death (from BO)
<LI>Not Quite Dead Enough (from NQDE)
<LI>Booby Trap (from NQDE)
<LI>Help Wanted, Male (from TiT)
<LI>Instead of Evidence (from TiT)
<LI>Bullet For One (from Cf3)
<LI>The Silent Speaker
<LI>Before I Die (from TiT)
<LI>Too Many Women
<LI>Man Alive (from 3DtD}
<LI>And Be a Villain
<LI>Omit Flowers (from 3DtD)
<LI>Door to Death (from 3DtD)
<LI>The Gun With Wings
<LI>The Gun With Wings (from Cf3)
<LI>In the Best Families
<LI>Disguise for Murder (from Cf3)
<LI>Murder by the Book
<LI>Home to Roost (from TJ)
<LI>The Cop-Killer (from TJ)
<LI>The Squirt and the Monkey (from TJ)
<LI>Prisoner's Base
<LI>Invitation to Murder (from 3MO)
<LI>This Won't Kill You (from 3MO)
<LI>The Golden Spiders
<LI>The Zero Clue (from 3MO)
<LI>The Black Mountain
<LI>When a Man Murders (from 3W)
<LI>The Next Witness (from 3W)
<LI>Die Like a Dog (from 3W)
<LI>Before Midnight
<LI>A Window for Death (from 3ftC)
<LI>Immune to Murder (from 3ftC)
<LI>Too Many Detectives (from 3ftC)
<LI>Might as Well Be Dead
<LI>Fourth of July Picnic (from &4tG)
<LI>Easter Parade (from &4tG)
<LI>If Death Ever Slept
<LI>Christmas Party (from &4tG)
<LI>Eeny Meeny Murder Mo (from HT)
<LI>Champagne for One
<LI>Poison a la Carte (from 3aWD)
<LI>Plot it Yourself
<LI>Death of a Demon (from HT)
<LI>Too Many Clients
<LI>The Rodeo Murder (from 3aWD)
<LI>Method Three for Murder (from 3aWD)
<LI>Kill Now--Pay Later (from TfBI)
<LI>Counterfeit for Murder (from HT)
<LI>The Final Deduction
<LI>Murder is Corny (from TfBI)
<LI>Gambit
<LI>The Mother Hunt
<LI>Blood Will Tell (from TfBI)
<LI>A Right to Die
<LI>The Doorbell Rang
<LI>Death of a Doxy
<LI>The Father Hunt</UL>And there you go.If you're really interested, there's also "Nero Wolfe of West Thirty-Fifth Street" by William S. Baring-Gould, which is a biography of Nero Wolfe based on information about him found in the books. Those lists I gave are based on an appendix that organizes all of Wolfe's activities, including ones that are referred to but not themselves the subjects of stories (which I didn't list), by the date in which they "occurred").Hope this helps! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">------------------
"Sun Ra? He's out to lunch, all right...same place I eat at!"
- George Clinton[This message has been edited by gwalla (edited 06-03-2001).]

T Campbell · Post by **T Campbell** » Sun Jun 03, 2001 6:50 am

I don't know if I could rank all art forms in order... especially since we keep finding new ones, and that "multimedia" catch-all label only goes so far.I do like comics better than any other form of expression, at least right now. I'm a visual thinker, but the levels of control for creator and reader (and writer and artist) just feel RIGHT for me.I have very little patience with work that seems designed to look good but say nothing. This even extends to certain comics.

Doublespeak · Post by **Doublespeak** » Sun Jun 03, 2001 9:04 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by gwalla:
Hope this helps! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin ... TE>Geez, you forgot the Nero Wolfe cookbook. Man, I though you could help me out, I guess I was wrong. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">Seriously, thanks a lot, what more could I have asked for?

Doublespeak · Post by **Doublespeak** » Sun Jun 03, 2001 11:10 am

Interesting. I have no idea why people like what they like. I suppose they like "whatever speaks to them" no matter how trite that sounds. For example, my list is a little different.dance
poetry
single-frame art (paintings etc)
music (vocal)
music (instrumental)
theatre
movies
multi-frame art (comic books,strip cartoons etc)
text-only stories (novels, short stories etc)I suppose I like the things I like because I consider myself a storyteller, or at least there is a storyteller in me. So I like stories. I consider epic poems, and much or Poe's work in the text-story category. I am of course aware that dances, songs, and poetry all have a story to tell, just not in the way I am thinking of. I simply do not like stories in that form. "Whatever speaks"I almost forgot. I recall somone on here talking about Nero Wolfe. I am interested in reading books about him, so I was wondering if someone could give me a list of his books in order (I always have to read them in order) and where I could get them. Thank ye.
[This message has been edited by Doublespeak (edited 06-03-2001).]

Muttley · Post by **Muttley** » Mon Jun 04, 2001 4:40 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by T Campbell:
I don't know if I could rank all art forms in order... especially since we keep finding new ones, and that "multimedia" catch-all label only goes so far.I do like comics better than any other form of expression, at least right now. I'm a visual thinker, but the levels of control for creator and reader (and writer and artist) just feel RIGHT for me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The table does imply a strict ranking, which on reflection isn't supportable; I'm not expressing myself terribly well. The various forms should have considerable overlap. Also, as you so rightly say, it can't be all-inclusive.I read a review this week of Jeremy Blake's work Chemical Sundown, on display in London, which concluded that "while no one was looking, computer generated art has come of age". Whether being accepted by art critics is a good thing or not is left as an exercise for the reader <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> But it does indicate the "digital art" is recognised as a separate form.The inclusion of a linguistic component (written or verbal) is important for me; music can enhance it, but pictures can sometimes detract: For instance, the graphic novels and animated movies derived from Terry Pratchetts novels don't feel as good as the books because one or more of the characters don't match the pictures I have in my head. I guess, for me, that language is what fires my imagination up the best.Muttley
"Let's just say that if complete and utter chaos was lightning, he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'."
Terry Pratchett, The Colour of Magic

Muttley · Post by **Muttley** » Mon Jun 04, 2001 5:09 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Maccabee:
I on the other hand adore dance.I think that dance moves beyond the need for words and thinking -- there's something primal about it, no matter how refined and stylized the steps. It seems to directly access the emotions (for me anyway), and the dance numbers are kind of a moment outside reality in those films where you can express something purer.Fred Astaire never even kissed Ginger Rogers in most of their movies together. He didn't have to.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You make a number of excellent points which I can only agree with wholeheartedly.There is certainly something primal, something more basic than language, about dance. In that sense, I think that to be affected by dance, it is important to participate. Dance, as a spectator, is difficult for me; as a participant it becomes much more effective.The same is true for music; performing, or just playing, as part of a group produces a much more intense feeling than listening; maybe the sense of achievement adds to the effect.There is something exuberant about "tap" (if thats the right word) that raises the spirits. Appreciating the technical achievement (Damn, how did they do that) is certainly part of it. Gene Kelly "Singin' in the Rain" sticks in my mind, as does his "Invitation to the Dance", which is all dance and music.Muttley
Who dances like a broken marionette, but doesn't charge spectators.[This message has been edited by Muttley (edited 06-04-2001).]