This ought to ruffle a few feathers...

Gwalla · Post by **Gwalla** » Wed May 23, 2001 1:25 am

<A HREF="http://www.crosswinds.net/~azusak/animerant.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.crosswinds.net/~azusak/animerant.html</A> Discuss.Personally, I actually sort of agree with a lot of his points. The one I have a problem with is the "anime == cartoons" one. Technically, the Japanese definitions match, but the thing that counts in language is usage, and in American usage anime refers specifically to Japanese animation. Anime is no longer strictly a Japanese word, but is now also an English word adapted from Japanese (this happens all of the time, and in both directions--goodness knows the Japanese have adapted plenty of English words in ways that don't fit with their American or British usage). However, I also don't subscribe to the "anime != cartoons" camp (although I did when I was younger). Properly, anime is a subset of cartoons.The random (ab)use of Japanese words and honorifics in English conversation in order to try to sound "cool" irritates me as well. I've been tempted to sock people who introduce themselves as "Jim-san" before. Argh! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/mad.gif"> Note: I'm not opposed to the use of Japanese terms for which there are no acceptable English equivalents as a sort of otaku jargon, just silly stuff like saying "hai" instead of "yes", or "nani?" instead of "huh?"------------------
"Sun Ra? He's out to lunch, all right...same place I eat at!"
- George Clinton

Doublespeak · Post by **Doublespeak** » Wed May 23, 2001 3:04 am

"Now, I've become increasingly aware that there are more than a few other people who share my view on the vast majority of fandom, but quite frankly, from what I've gathered, most of them are afraid to speak out. And who can blame them?"This makes me laugh; he is the hero of anime fans, daring to speak up when others are too afraid to. What exactly did he say that a majority of anime fans are afraid to say? That Sailor Moon sucks? Wow never heard that before. I deem him our leader in the revolution.

Czhorat · Post by **Czhorat** » Wed May 23, 2001 3:09 am

He sounds like a self-important jerk to me. For one thing, he's generalizing "anime fans" based on the real, true-believing minority. Rabid fans of anything from Star Trek to football all seem a little strange to the rest of us. I'd rather save my rants for behaviour that's actually harmful to someone.

Blondlot · Post by **Blondlot** » Wed May 23, 2001 4:17 am

I think it was more of an OMM rant than anything else (grain of truth in a sea of sarcasm and irony). You don't show proper respect for a people by misunderstanding and stereotyping them. That goes for both anime fans and the people who write tirades about their flaws. I don't think the writer was going for proper respect, though.Ex animo,
m.d

NathanAlderman · Post by **NathanAlderman** » Wed May 23, 2001 8:16 am

I think that anime, like any other art form or medium, should be judged on an individual basis. Lumping "Princess Mononoke" and "Sailor Moon" in the same category is like equating "Citizen Kane" with "See Spot Run" because both are movies. I also think there are more important issues to be discussed in this world than the rudeness of some members of a relatively small and self-enclosed klatch of people. Somewhere in this world, people are dying of starvation right now. We're obscenely lucky for what we have. Seen from that perspective, anime and its accompanying etiquette just don't matter.-- Nathan

Jen Aside · Post by **Jen Aside** » Wed May 23, 2001 9:17 am

I've given up on trying to blanketly change people.Although it does help once in a while when I want to blow off steam because I've heard the godawful word "kawaii" too many times.

Delerious · Post by **Delerious** » Wed May 23, 2001 10:07 am

A good scholarly work on Anime is Anime from Akira to Princess Mononoke by Susan J. Napier, Published by Palgrave. <A HREF="http://www.palgrave.com" TARGET=_blank>www.palgrave.com</A> .
------------------
---
Delirious Raven
53874855 is ICQ
Aim given to friends,
and only mah gal knows mah EM ESS EN.

Blondlot · Post by **Blondlot** » Thu May 24, 2001 12:36 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by NathanAlderman:
I also think there are more important issues to be discussed in this world than the rudeness of some members of a relatively small and self-enclosed klatch of people. Somewhere in this world, people are dying of starvation right now. We're obscenely lucky for what we have. Seen from that perspective, anime and its accompanying etiquette just don't matter.-- Nathan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Funny you should mention that on a message board dedicated to discussing an online comic book and fandom.Talk about irony.Ex animo,
m.d

T Campbell · Post by **T Campbell** » Thu May 24, 2001 3:55 am

Hey, even *I* don't think the habits of Sailor Moon watchers are all that important compared with world hunger. So why go on at length about them, if that's your point?When people announce that they've got a rant, it means one of two things:One: They've got an honest opinion which they'll share in a considered, thought-out manner, but they want to remain modest about it. (Examples: Maritza, Scott Kurtz)Two: They want to vent their frustration and act like the venting itself is important. (Example? Hmmm...)

NathanAlderman · Post by **NathanAlderman** » Thu May 24, 2001 5:04 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Blondlot:
 Funny you should mention that on a message board dedicated to discussing an online comic book and fandom.Talk about irony.Ex animo,
m.d<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, the thought did occur to me as I was writing the post. (=You'll notice, though, I don't post quite as often as I used to.-- Nathan,
never afraid of being called on his own double standard

Wish · Post by **Wish** » Thu May 24, 2001 5:17 am

I dunno.. sound like a guy who's had a rough week and lashed out at the first thing that annoyed him. (Gee.. I've never done ANYTHING like that, golly gosh no...) Heh.. the only person I know who peppers her speech with Japanese expressions is a friend of mine actually taking Japanese at college. I have yet to run across an 'anime fan' who actually says the word 'kawaii.'-Wish
Rant Master?

Muttley · Post by **Muttley** » Thu May 24, 2001 8:10 am

Oh, come on guys. Look at the title of the strip this board is about. Now think about what you've seen at con's, or large club meets, or whatever. If that isn't enough, the game is given away very early in his "rant": - <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I hate anime fans because they are conceited, anal-retentive, silly, thickheaded, ignorant, inane and elitist.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So, then, he doesn't like himself very much. This is a description of an archtypal fan. Of anything. Star Trek; football; Agathe Christie; The Beatles. Fans are fanatical, that their defining characteristic.In the spirit of his assertion that anime=cartoon, I have to respond fans are obsessive, and in a lot of cases that leads to conspicuously unusual behaviour. Mostly harmless, though. Really, its easiest just to let time take its course; they usually get better again. The rest of us just learn when and how to hide it . . . <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">Oh, and if you want a real-world issue to put a perspective on this storm in a teacup, the Taliban in Afghanistan are planning to make non-Moslems wear badges. That makes me feel cold right down to my toes. For me, that would be an issue to go to war about. Those who neglect history . . .MuttleyAnd I would say that in general usage (todays general usage is tomorrows dictionary definition) anime carries the connotation of Japanese cartoon animation.

Doublespeak · Post by **Doublespeak** » Thu May 24, 2001 9:29 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by NathanAlderman:
You'll notice, though, I don't post quite as often as I used to.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hey cool, does that mean you are helping people in starving countries? If the organization your working for needs donations you let me know. I formed a club in Junior High, and then in High School, where we collected food and money for people in homeless shelters for those 4 years, and then for another 4 years in High School. It was damn rewarding let me tell you. Man, it sucks that I have no free time to do cool shit like that anymore. But maybe I should make time again.

Maccabee · Post by **Maccabee** » Thu May 24, 2001 10:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Muttley:

Oh, and if you want a real-world issue to put a perspective on this storm in a teacup, the Taliban in Afghanistan are planning to make non-Moslems wear badges. That makes me feel cold right down to my toes. For me, that would be an issue to go to war about. Those who neglect history . . .Muttley
[Quote]No kidding. The report I saw said that there was one Jew in Afghanistan. Can you still call it a concentration camp if there's only one inmate? Of course really I'm sure they'll put the local Hindus and Buddhists in there too. And the Shiites -- the Taliban is Sunni, after all. And yes, the distinctive badges are indeed yellow.These are the people who just closed down a foreign-run hospital because male and female employees "mingled." Far better to let patients sicken and die than for that
to happen. Sure, Mohammed married a business-woman. That doesn't mean modern Muslims should follow his example and treat women like people. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/rolleyes.gif"> Grrrr....And the worst thing, from our perspective? We paid for these guys. Funded their noble anticommunist rebellion. Stupid bipolar thinking. How many times is this gonna bite us on our collective ass before we stop viewing the world in black-and-white?[quote]
And I would say that in general usage (todays general usage is tomorrows dictionary definition) anime carries the connotation of Japanese cartoon animation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ayup. Which still makes anime a subcategory of cartoons like apes are a subcategory of mammals.But there is a growing trend in the US toward making Japanese-style cartoons. Mostly it's small independent studios on shoe-string budgets, but some of the larger studios seem to show more anime influence too.This trend could make "anime" refer more to a style within animation than to a point of origin for the stuff. Time will tell.Greg------------------
Risus est telum ultimum contra tyrranem. Nullus dictator exercitibus allibus ridiculem vulgi longe resistare potest.

NathanAlderman · Post by **NathanAlderman** » Fri May 25, 2001 1:28 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Doublespeak:
 Hey cool, does that mean you are helping people in starving countries? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My sarcasm detector just started beeping.You put me to shame. I've conducted organized donations in the past-- used to be my dorm's co-Philanthropy chair-- but no, I'm not as organized as you.I try to help people when I can, in what ways I can. -- Nathan

Gwalla · Post by **Gwalla** » Fri May 25, 2001 11:03 am

Woo! Knew this'd get people going.I agree, for the most part, with his specific points. I don't agree with how he says it (he's pretty abrasive, but then it is a personal rant). And I don't agree with his generalization ("anime fans are irritating people") because for it to follow from his specific points the predicate "all anime fans behave in this manner" must be true, which is not the case--they're just a rather vocal minority. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Maccabee:
And the worst thing, from our perspective? We paid for these guys. Funded their noble anticommunist rebellion. Stupid bipolar thinking. How many times is this gonna bite us on our collective ass before we stop viewing the world in black-and-white?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Evidently not anytime soon. We're still funding the Taliban. The Bush administration gave the Taliban a whole bunch of money so that they'd declare growing opium to be against religious law.------------------
"Sun Ra? He's out to lunch, all right...same place I eat at!"
- George Clinton

Doublespeak · Post by **Doublespeak** » Sat May 26, 2001 12:22 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by NathanAlderman:
 My sarcasm detector just started beeping.You put me to shame. I've conducted organized donations in the past-- used to be my dorm's co-Philanthropy chair-- but no, I'm not as organized as you.I try to help people when I can, in what ways I can. -- Nathan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ack, there was no sarcasm meant (my sarcasm is always over the top, and I suppose borders on not really being sarcasm, but I digress ). Nor was I bragging did it sound like that? Sorry. That's a really cool idea, getting donations from your dorm. On a totally unrelated note, any one ever see the move "Cabin Boy?" that

Blondlot · Post by **Blondlot** » Sat May 26, 2001 12:47 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Doublespeak:
 On a totally unrelated note, any one ever see the move "Cabin Boy?" that