The freakish size of Nancy Reagan's head.

[Ekolter]

Cindy McCain looks like how I would envision Mid-Age Barbie. Seriously, she creeps the hell out of me. Michelle Obama looks more real.

[Yeahduff]

She had real trouble managing the tone of her voice last night. She was also boring as hell.

[Phact0rri]

really at this point i'd be happy with a president who doesn't authorize bombing my family's homeland. I don't feel i'm asking for much.

Don't worry Bill Clinton isn't running.

[Rkolter]

really at this point i'd be happy with a president who doesn't authorize bombing my family's homeland. I don't feel i'm asking for much.

But it's traditional! You can't mess with tradition.

[Yeahduff]

Change you can believe in, Ryan.

[The Neko]

"Our constituency wants us to build a natural gas pipeline through Alaska."

Uh

“I think God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that,” she said.

[Laemkral]

Let me chime in here on military experience. It can be useful because it could mean improved judgement in high pressure situations, an appreciation of what it really means to send people into combat, and a better understanding of how best to use your resources. Could. Someone could also simply happen to be good at understanding those types of situations, plus...ADVISORS do most of the detailed thinking. I have a feeling that McCain's understanding of the modern military may be only slightly more in depth than Obama's once you factor in advisors.

It's not a necessity, mainly because no President in the modern age leads troops into combat. The military understands this. Generally, what the military wants is someone who's committed to raising our pay, getting us new toys, bringing us benefits, and overall not sending us into combat situations with no clear mission. Beyond that, it's all personal politics.

The most important thing to remember, above all else, is that the President is a civilian. A civilian in charge of the military. This is important and crucial to our democracy. The President is not made "Super High Ultra General" or anything like that. (S)He is simply the Commander in Chief, and in fact must resign any military rank and shouldn't be wearing any military uniforms (like pilot suits...) because they represent the civilian populace and how the military answers to the country and the people. Therefore, its really not all that important to the job that they have served in the military.

What it really should represent is an extra commitment to the country, the whole "Hey, I wanted to serve my country!" schtick. But considering how many people are all "YAY AMERICA!!" but wouldn't dare sign enlistment papers...yeah.

McCain has my undying respect as a POW. He's got big brass balls for going through the Hanoi Hilton. I mean, this is a guy who when the subject of "torture" is raised in the Senate, he's a friggin subject matter EXPERT. He didn't need the brief, and could probably demonstrate a few techniques right there on the Senate floor. And for that, I salute him. But just because Obama hasn't served doesn't make him a less capable leader.

[Jesusabdullah]

"Our constituency wants us to build a natural gas pipeline through Alaska."

Uh

“I think God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that,” she said.

Emphasis on natural gas, not so much God/constituency. I only really brought up the latter because I think people forget that we (generally, as a group) actually want this sort of thing--raping the landscape, developing our resources, however you want to characterize it.

I hadn't heard that God quote, so...thanks for bringing that to my attention, I guess.

[Tellurider]

Back in the day the american dream, the thing that made our ancestors immigrate to this country, was the idea that here, by your own efforts, you could rise to the best you could be and not be held back by birth. Only your own brains and brawn mattered, only what you could produce, only what you could DO, not who you were. But that's just not happening in this day and age

This time never existed, and is closer to existing now than "back in the day."

Um, well, that dream is why MY great grandparents immigrated here. I dunno about yours.

[Killbert-Robby]

While I agree that the "American Dream" wasnt a possibility for long, I don't agree that we're closer to achieving it now that before. America was a land of dreams because it was a *new* country. It was a nation of new businesses, new ideas, new beliefs. Everyone was starting from scratch. There was infinite land for anyone to try and make something for themselves. It was a totally level playing field, where people were successful because they were better, not because they had a 60 year head start.
The dream is impossible now because America is too developed really. I know this sounds like I'm a hippie, but with competitors like large chain stores, restaurants and the like, not to mention the difficulty of finding a worker's visa and increasing prices, it's become near impossible for Joe Average to go and make something out of nothing in "The Land of Dreams"

[War]

America was never a level playing field. Back in the old days if you arrived in America without a penny to your name you'd be stuck working a dead-end job for a pittance, which was how it was for many people.
Money always mattered, and money always makes more money.

[Phact0rri]

well capitalism wouldn't work if there were no poor or and no homeless. it only works on the backs of those that toil thier lives away for small amounts of money. its really the biggest flaw in the economic profile. *shrugs*

[Killbert-Robby]

America was never a level playing field. Back in the old days if you arrived in America without a penny to your name you'd be stuck working a dead-end job for a pittance, which was how it was for many people.
Money always mattered, and money always makes more money.

Maybe level-er is the right-er word

[The Neko]

America often projected the image of itself as a meritocracy, which is what spawned the romanticized "American Dream". Much of American literature ruminates on the fact that it's a complete lie.


As for more Palin goodness. She doesn't just believe God has a vested interest in Alaskan energy policy, but also believes the Iraq war was also God's will, as well as being a part of a church that proclaims that Israel deserves being attacked because they don't believe in the divinity of Christ. And they also believe in converting gays to become straight.


It has also turned out that her "sold the plane on ebay for a profit" thing is a complete fabrication. She put it online 3 times, but was unable to sell. She eventually had to hire a broker who sold it, but at a loss. So all in all, the symbolic gesture cost money.

[Laemkral]

America often projected the image of itself as a meritocracy, which is what spawned the romanticized "American Dream". Much of American literature ruminates on the fact that it's a complete lie.


As for more Palin goodness. She doesn't just believe God has a vested interest in Alaskan energy policy, but also believes the Iraq war was also God's will, as well as being a part of a church that proclaims that Israel deserves being attacked because they don't believe in the divinity of Christ. And they also believe in converting gays to become straight.


It has also turned out that her "sold the plane on ebay for a profit" thing is a complete fabrication. She put it online 3 times, but was unable to sell. She eventually had to hire a broker who sold it, but at a loss. So all in all, the symbolic gesture cost money.

And its shit like that which is why she scares me more than McCain. Though I just checked, and like most evangelicals...she's very PRO-Israel. I'd like to find evidence of her saying "Israel deserves being attacked" because that's fucking political gold and runs totally counter to a pro-Israel stance.

[Jesusabdullah]

It has also turned out that her "sold the plane on ebay for a profit" thing is a complete fabrication. She put it online 3 times, but was unable to sell. She eventually had to hire a broker who sold it, but at a loss. So all in all, the symbolic gesture cost money.

Yeah, that didn't end nearly as punk rock as she wanted it to. On the other hand, Murkowski was kind of a dick for buying the thing in the first place. It was a really big symbol of everything wrong with his administration, which was why selling it was so important. You probably already knew about that, though.

[Tellurider]

To back up a bit, let me clarify my position.

When I was talking about the "American Dream" I wasn't trying to imply that it was reality. I was just saying that philosophically that used to be the mindset of those coming to this country, and one of our ideals. Now the "American Dream" seems to be "get something for nothing" which is why most americans are up to their eyeballs in debt and most people just want to win the lottery and vote more money for themselves (income redistribution, everyone who has more money than I do should give it to me because I want more money not because I've done anything to deserve it).

My issue is with the mindset and ideology of the general populace, not actual reality. I think that the ideology has to change before reality can change, but such a change would not be immediate, and all these changes that the current candidates are talking about are just duct tape to slap over the holes in a leaky boat.

But this isn't a discussion about my crazy philosophical ideas so let's just move on.

[The Neko]

America often projected the image of itself as a meritocracy, which is what spawned the romanticized "American Dream". Much of American literature ruminates on the fact that it's a complete lie.


As for more Palin goodness. She doesn't just believe God has a vested interest in Alaskan energy policy, but also believes the Iraq war was also God's will, as well as being a part of a church that proclaims that Israel deserves being attacked because they don't believe in the divinity of Christ. And they also believe in converting gays to become straight.


It has also turned out that her "sold the plane on ebay for a profit" thing is a complete fabrication. She put it online 3 times, but was unable to sell. She eventually had to hire a broker who sold it, but at a loss. So all in all, the symbolic gesture cost money.

And its shit like that which is why she scares me more than McCain. Though I just checked, and like most evangelicals...she's very PRO-Israel. I'd like to find evidence of her saying "Israel deserves being attacked" because that's fucking political gold and runs totally counter to a pro-Israel stance.

It's not attributed to Palin herself, but a speaker at her church. Considering Obama got raked across the coals for Wright and this goes by without mention is just sad as hell.

In a talk entitled "The Jerusalem Dilemma," Brickner also went on to describe all of the problems in the Middle East as related to Jerusalem. "But what we see in Israel, the conflict that is spilled through the Middle East, really which is all about Jerusalem, is an ongoing reflection of the fact that there is judgment," Brickner told Palin's church, adding: "Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When Isaac [Brickner's son] was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment -- you can't miss it."

I was also aware of the whole plane fiasco, but her (and McCain's) retellings of it as "she sold it on eBay for a profit" are just sickening lies. It goes along with the stuff they've been saying about Obama's tax policy. The only people who are going to be getting raised taxes are the top 5%. Under McCain's plan, the top 5% will get about a quarter million dollars back. The people further down the bracket will get progressively smaller returns.

Frankly, the "trickle down" economic ideology is retarded.

[Jesusabdullah]

My parents still tell me, "have you HEARD about his CHURCH it is SO SCARY" regarding Obama. T__T

They're also really scared of Obama's proposed tax structure, but they also make way more money than they think they do. It's also possible they've heard lies.

[The Neko]

My parents still tell me, "have you HEARD about his CHURCH it is SO SCARY" regarding Obama. T__T

They're also really scared of Obama's proposed tax structure, but they also make way more money than they think they do. It's also possible they've heard lies.

Oh god that's really sad.

My parents are mostly just worried about the tax thing because we might get burned as we're upper-middle, but they really can't imagine all the other bullshit McCain will probably pull so I think they're for Obama. I really can't imagine them voting for social conservatism.