Star Wars III

Tears · Post by **Tears** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:24 am

Not necessarily, it could just be that Obi Wan believes that the Sith deal only in absolutes... it would be perfectly reasonable for the Jedi to hold such an opinion about their age-old enemies.

Sortelli · Post by **Sortelli** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:37 am

Only Sith deal in absolutes.
Obi Wan deals in absolutes by noting that only Sith do so.
Ergo: Obi Wan is a Sith!

OR George Lucas is logically invalid and does not exist.

Tears · Post by **Tears** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:45 am

Sounds a bit like a roleplay chatacter I had once who lived by the maxim 'There are no absolutes.'

(She also had a long complicated explanation as to why this wasn't a contradiction... it involved limit theory... you probably don't want to know.)

Risky · Post by **Risky** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:44 am

Sortelli wrote:Only Sith deal in absolutes.
Obi Wan deals in absolutes by noting that only Sith do so.
Ergo: Obi Wan is a Sith!
OR George Lucas is logically invalid and does not exist.

He was quoting Yoda, and Yoda meant "Only deal in Sith absolutes", but he Yodaed it.

Er..

It's worth noting that from the very beginning Obi was a CRAPPY jedi, they say so several times. That's why Anakin turned evil (according to Obi's ghost?). It's also worth noting that Obi didn't say "Sith only deal in absolutes", so they are free to also deal in moral relativism without disproving Obi's statement.

Sortelli · Post by **Sortelli** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:47 am

True, a Sith's ability to apply nuance does not contradict Obi Wan, it just makes him suck more.

Risky · Post by **Risky** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:53 am

I really enjoyed the movie, nonetheless. I even made fun of that line to the person I saw the movie with, as we were walking out of the theater, and I cringed at each scene of particularly bad acting, including the stuff in the suit at the end, but as a fan of the series I can't believe how many loose ends they managed to tie up, and how many "cool thing"s there were.

One thing that REALLY ticked me off was Kashykk(sp). There was like, one lake and one 'street' in the entire film? Did I miss something? Geez, the forest moon of Endor was a billion times cooler than that.

Levi-chan · Post by **Levi-chan** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:01 am

That, and the battle of Kashyyk didn't really add anything to the story, and looked more like pillow-shots for the next scenes.

And have you thought of how many freakin days the clones used up trying to gain that beach? It wasn't even that big. Jeebus.

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:08 am

Levi-chan wrote:That, and the battle of Kashyyk didn't really add anything to the story.

It's just... texture. There's a war on. Here's some of it. I'm glad they didn't try to do anything big with it. I sure the temptation was there but it's just background and not part of the central plot.

- Joel Fagin

KittyKatBlack · Post by **KittyKatBlack** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:46 am

I haven't seen the movie, but I always wondered... how come in all these sci-fi movies all planets have one capital city?

We have tons of countries each with it's own capital cities. I mean it it's so freakin' hard for us to combine into a one-world government, how come it's easily managed by creatures that can't speak properly and still use animals for transportation?

AsterAzul · Post by **AsterAzul** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:59 am

It's good storytelling. (But ridiculous.)

When you make a planet for a sci-fi story, it has to have a gimmick so that a person remembers it. So it'll be "the ice planet" or "the dirty planet with lots of bars" and of course it only needs one capital city. *rolls eyes*
I wish they would have some planets with variable gravity for a change. 1G, 1G, 1G. *sigh* Boring!

My friend and I had so much fun watching this in the theatre. The love scenes... *snort*
I think she wanted to murder me after I made that crack during the "killing the younglings" scene.

Most of the movie was "texture," really. A lot of great, well done scenes, and texture, and the lot. In fact, aside from the acting and pacing, it was a great movie.

Jen_Babcock · Post by **Jen_Babcock** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:44 am

I decided to re-watch the originals, b/c it had been a while, and there a couple of inconsistencies that bother me.

In A New Hope, Uncle Owen goes off about Anakin as if they were really close. He makes it seem that they grew up together on the moisture farm, when the new trilogy clearly shows that they did not.

In Return of the Jedi, Luke asks Leia if she remembers her mother. Leia says that she does- that she was very beautiful but very sad. Of course, she could be talkin' about Sen. Organa's wife, but they make it seem like they're talking about their birth mother.

Finally, I think it's a little weird that they decide to hide Luke from the Vader and the Emperor with Anakin's step brother, Owen, and his wife Beru. I mean, if Vader wasn't sure if his child (since he only thought there was one) survived childbirth, wouldn't he search around and see if it did? More importantly, in his search wouldn't he check to see if they left his baby with the only family he had (Owen and Beru) first?

I know- it's just a movie.

Jim North · Post by **Jim North** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:01 pm

Jen_Babcock wrote:In A New Hope, Uncle Owen goes off about Anakin as if they were really close. He makes it seem that they grew up together on the moisture farm, when the new trilogy clearly shows that they did not.

The only thing I remember him saying about Anakin was that he was afraid there was too much of him in Luke. I'd think it would be a reasonable statement for anyone who knew that Anakin had become Vader, whether they'd been close or not. Was there something else he said that I don't remember?

In Return of the Jedi, Luke asks Leia if she remembers her mother. Leia says that she does- that she was very beautiful but very sad. Of course, she could be talkin' about Sen. Organa's wife, but they make it seem like they're talking about their birth mother.

I've thought about this, and there are a few possibilities. First is the one you mention, which would appear to be the most reasonable and the one I prefer, personally. Second, it could be that she was shown holograms of Amidala when she was very very young and was told that she was her real mother . . . with time, the memories could have faded to the point that she remembered the hologams as being the real thing. And finally, it's possible that - like the Solo twins in the expanded universe - Luke and Leia's force powers were already semi-active inside the womb, and Leia managed to make enough of a connection with her mother to form and hold a picture of what she looked like in her mind.

Finally, I think it's a little weird that they decide to hide Luke from the Vader and the Emperor with Anakin's step brother, Owen, and his wife Beru. I mean, if Vader wasn't sure if his child (since he only thought there was one) survived childbirth, wouldn't he search around and see if it did? More importantly, in his search wouldn't he check to see if they left his baby with the only family he had (Owen and Beru) first?

This has bothered me a long time, too. Leaving Vader's son on Anakin's home planet with Anakin's only surviving family (through marriage or otherwise) and still carrying Anakin's last name . . . doesn't seem very reasonable at all. The only thing I've been able to figure is that they didn't think that Vader would be willing to go back to Tatooine after all the bad stuff that happened to him there. That still seems like a pretty huge chance they were taking, but eh, well.

[geoduck] · Post by **[geoduck]** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:58 pm

AsterAzul wrote: I wish they would have some planets with variable gravity for a change. 1G, 1G, 1G. *sigh* Boring!

The problem being, of course, the expense of the FX. It's shame that we Americans are still pretty much locked into the "cartoons are for children" mindset. A lot can be done with animation...

Steverules · Post by **Steverules** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:02 pm

Jen_Babcock wrote:exposes serious flaws in the Star Wars series.

**George Lucas calls upon his hordes of fans to silence Jen forever.**

Run, Jen, RUN!!!!!

Prettysenshi · Post by **Prettysenshi** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:27 pm

with all of the prequels inconsistancies with the original trilogy, it's no wonder why everyone's starting to wonder whether Lucas really wrote the entire series at once, or decided to make the prequels only after the original trilogy was done and he saw how popular it had became.

Tears · Post by **Tears** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:37 pm

There's a world of difference between having a rough synopsis worked out and actually having a full script... I'd guess that he had synopses worked out for the prequels but not scripts.

(synopses plural of synopsis?... kind of sounds right to me, but does anyone actually know?)

Caduceus · Post by **Caduceus** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:03 pm

I think Leia saw her mother right after birth and just remembers it. What need do we have of any other explanation? These movies are fantasy and myth.

Caduceus · Post by **Caduceus** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:05 pm

Jen_Babcock wrote: Finally, I think it's a little weird that they decide to hide Luke from the Vader and the Emperor with Anakin's step brother, Owen, and his wife Beru. I mean, if Vader wasn't sure if his child (since he only thought there was one) survived childbirth, wouldn't he search around and see if it did? More importantly, in his search wouldn't he check to see if they left his baby with the only family he had (Owen and Beru) first?

Vader thought his wife died on the lava planet. He didn't know any children were born.

Steverules · Post by **Steverules** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:18 pm

I think the real dealbreaker was Darth Vader was such a little pussie when he was a kid. That little whiney blond haired kid was horrible. The young Boba Fett would kick his ass into next week. Little Annie looks like the honors kid in your first grade classroom who all the teachers love, whereas, the young Boba looks like the kid in your neighborhood that would set your cat on fire.

Risky · Post by **Risky** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:24 pm

steverules wrote:I think the real dealbreaker was Darth Vader was such a little pussie when he was a kid. That little whiney blond haired kid was horrible. The young Boba Fett would kick his ass into next week. Little Annie looks like the honors kid in your first grade classroom who all the teachers love, whereas, the young Boba looks like the kid in your neighborhood that would set your cat on fire.

I dunno about that, it makes his pussieness a lot more believable in "Jedi". I think if it was Boba vs. Anakin, Boba would still lose because Boba can't aim worth shit. He still can't in "Jedi". Only imperial stormtroopers are so precise? They can't hit shit. Blame Jango's genes. (aren't you a little short to be a jango clone?) Anakin wasn't nearly as whiny as Luke (whose nickname in the books was "Wormy"). He did take on Sebulba on the streets, after all. That was cool. And he spoke huttese.