Web to print comics

MixedMyth · Post by **MixedMyth** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:24 am

I know, I know. T_T It's just going to take a while. Plus, the whole partial-color mostly greyscale thing is a conundrum. Eeegh.

AsterAzul · Post by **AsterAzul** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:25 am

Ida wrote:Azul: You don't need immense riches to get published - just look at Faub's tutorial. 8)

Ooh... fascinating.
*oogles*

Hmm... big paper... hmm...

Eee, scary info on the money thing.
I should really just get printed in the Aggie, but the interview is going to scare me.

So has anyone ever actually made money off of print comics here, or is just sort of an urban legend or a novelty?

Col · Post by **Col** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:52 am

I'm pretty sure there have been. Order of the Stick for sure, I heard they made huge profits off their first book.

Faub · Post by **Faub** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:43 pm

http://stripedb.freeshell.org/printing_comics.html

Yeah, that would be a good thing to post here.

Zuri · Post by **Zuri** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:50 pm

Heh. thanks Al, thanks krug.

Its been quite interesting to get involved in to be honest, given that not only is Shifters got a colaborative element, so there were some copyright things to sort out, but its also got some serious fixing up to do to actually be reproduced.

I'm just lucky I work in publishing professionally.

Least I know what to do and whats involved. I've got a lot of work ahead, especially redoing the pages that have been lost to time and fixing some flow/page count issues.

Currently, the date is looking around Jan 2006 for publication. And I'm actually doing a graphic novel, rather than just a comic book. I expect at least two volumes.

I'm excited. ^^

AsterAzul · Post by **AsterAzul** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:48 pm

Keenspace died again.
-_-;

Ida · Post by **Ida** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:09 am

lintjinks wrote:After a lot of research on the possibilities, I used Lulu. They're really easy and handle all the print-on-demand, shipping, etc. All I had to do was organize it into a .pdf file.

It worked well for what I wanted from a publisher, which was just to get my comic available in a no-frills decent-looking book for readers to buy if they want it, and then not to have to worry about it anymore.

Would you recommend them to others? I've been researching printers for a while now (not that my comic is ready for print at all yet - I just like to plan), and they seemed the best option alongside Dreamweaver. Is there any reason NOT to use Lulu rather than a bulk printer? I'm pretty fond of the print-on-demand idea, but how's the quality of the books or are there any other hidden caches? Honestly, this service simply seems too good to be true to me. But then, I am a sceptic.

Faub · Post by **Faub** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:47 am

I have a comic that was printed by comixpress.com. It's very good quality. I think I've seen a book from lulu.com as well. I don't remember, though.

My problem with print on demand comics like lulu and cafepress is they are ultra-expensive to print. For the price you're charging your fans, you as the artist aren't getting much out of the deal. It's your work. You should get paid for it.

Comixpress will print 100 minicomics (like the samplers) for $100 if you include their ad on the back. You should be able to get $2.50 to $3.00 out of it. Bare minimum, you should be able to get twice the printing cost from your comic. Lulu.com has a pricing scheme where you MIGHT get $4.00 from a $15 book. Dreamweaver press charges $477 + shipping for 100, 128 page books (roughly the size of the Megatokyo volumes which were sold for $10 each). That's $4.77 each in printing costs or $9.54 if you double the price.

If you want a good quality comic book print, I would suggest comixpress.com. Lulu.com might be okay if you're printing trade paperbacks but honestly, you're getting a better deal for yourself by printing in bulk from Dreamweaver Press and doing the shipping yourself.

http://www.egoworks.com/dreamweaverpress/printing.html

So you know, after I got issue 1 printed, I sold 7 whole copies over the Internet. Seven. That's with ~450 visitors a day. I went to Anime Central and sold 20. More popular artists (manga artists, it was an anime con after all) were selling more than 50 issues of their comics (Dirk Teide of Paradigm Shift was doing this). Alpha Shade sold 2000 issues on the first day at the con.

Print on demand is nice if you don't want to worry about the details. But my impression is that it's not worth it. You're not going to make any money going that route. Selling your comics in person is another story. And it helps to have something shiny to attract people to your table. 8)

Ida · Post by **Ida** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:57 am

Good advise, faub.

The reason why I haven't considered Comixpress is their page limit; at 60 pages I can hardly stuff two chapters of my comic into a book, and I'd really like to have at least three chapters plus extra stuff in each book. Yeah, Dreamweaver is probably the best shot - but then again, if the books are shipped from me, U.S. buyers will have to pay for shipping from Denmark, which is ridiculously expensive - danm you Post Danmark! - and that way the price would become rather high anyway. Hmm... it's a good thing I'm not going to print for at least a year.

Turi · Post by **Turi** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:42 am

Actually, it is cheaper sending a 250 g (8.3 oz) large envelope from Denmark to USA than in reverse (a tad less than 6$ versus 7.55$, respectively), unless you use prioitare B mail (which takes 4-6 weeks from USA to denmark but a third that the other way), in which case the Danish and American charges are 5.66$ varsus 3.8$, respectively. (American dollars).

Lintjinks · Post by **Lintjinks** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:48 am

Ida wrote:
lintjinks wrote:After a lot of research on the possibilities, I used Lulu. They're really easy and handle all the print-on-demand, shipping, etc. All I had to do was organize it into a .pdf file.

It worked well for what I wanted from a publisher, which was just to get my comic available in a no-frills decent-looking book for readers to buy if they want it, and then not to have to worry about it anymore.
Would you recommend them to others? I've been researching printers for a while now (not that my comic is ready for print at all yet - I just like to plan), and they seemed the best option alongside Dreamweaver. Is there any reason NOT to use Lulu rather than a bulk printer? I'm pretty fond of the print-on-demand idea, but how's the quality of the books or are there any other hidden caches? Honestly, this service simply seems too good to be true to me. But then, I am a sceptic.

It works great for me. I was a little skeptical myself, so I ordered a few copies in different styles to check out which I liked best. It came out exactly how I wanted it to with the .pdf, no hidden anythings stuck in it. The quality is good, I mean, I'm happy with it. I can't see any flaws other than my own personal glaring ones ::grins::

I don't like the saddle stitching. I DO suggest perfect paperback binding (which is the same price and looks very professional).

I'm not in this to make money, so I just sell my books at cost, foregoing any royalties. The cost to print a perfect paperback bound black and white 8x11 ~90 page book is a little over $6. You could sell those at $9 and make three bucks a pop. Not bad.

The color printing is a lot more expensive, although it's just as cheap as all the other printers I checked with, or cheaper. To print a perfect paperback bound color 100# paper (which is really nice paper) 8x11 ~140 page book is about $25. Oddly enough, I've sold way more of the $25 books than the $6 ones.

The fact that they handle all the shipping, payments, extra crap is sooooo nice because I really don't want to have to deal with any of that. Definitely recommended.

Faub · Post by **Faub** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:37 pm

I shipped a 1oz comic to the UK as a kind of test. It should have cost ~$4.50 total (printing cost, my proft, shipping, 5% paypal included)

It boils down to how much your customers are willing to pay for your comics. I don't think $3-5 is completely out of the question for a 28 page comic. I don't think $10-15 is out of the question for a 120 page trade paperback. Any more than that and you're REALLY stretching. If lulu.com charges $20 for a 120 page book, I would call that overpriced unless it's full color. I might go as high as $25 for a full sized trade paperback, but I honestly haven't been able to bring myself to shell out $40 for the complete series of Bone even though I want to read it.

I would say, keep the costs down as much as possible, include profit for yourself, even if you don't think you want it. You made the thing. Get a little back from in. The people buying your comic are trying to help you out a little for something they've already read in return. I handed Micheal Poe $20 for a copies of his comics and have barely flipped through them. I probably wouldn't have done it if I believed he wasn't getting something out of it.

AsterAzul · Post by **AsterAzul** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:01 pm

$40 for all of Bone was COMPLETELY worth it.

1000+ pages of comic, right there.
Of course, this is from a guy who was expecting to have to buy each individual $10-20 book in the nine book series...

Risky · Post by **Risky** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:49 pm

If I understand the question, most of keenspot seems to be available in print. I have personally bought RPG World in TPB (disc one) and plan to buy book two.

Cute Wendy is also available entirely in print (though I'm not sure if they are still releasing it). So is Exploitation Now and I believe Errant Story is headed that route as well.

That said, Elf Life started a comic book, but the comic book failed. I still never got reimbursed for my subscription.

Ryuko · Post by **Ryuko** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:13 pm

Josh still has copies of the Cute Wendy book. He's selling them personally, but there aren't many left, iirc.

Risky · Post by **Risky** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:40 pm

Oddly enought I didn't see "Megatokyo" in either thread, though I did see a lot of the other stuff I said in the other thread. <_< >_< <_> OW!

*rubs his eyes*

So yeah, Megatokyo.

MrEff · Post by **MrEff** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:10 pm

faub wrote:
Comixpress will print 100 minicomics (like the samplers) for $100 if you include their ad on the back. You should be able to get $2.50 to $3.00 out of it. Bare minimum, you should be able to get twice the printing cost from your comic.

Ah... but honestly.... how many people would really shell out $2 for a comic by you or anyof us...... It's tough enough to get people to shell out less for more "mainstream" titles....

Here's what was passed down to me at one time.... The greatest toll we comikers have... is the photocopier.... Make your own books and give them away.... Once you get known... then look into expensive printing.....

It's just like bands putting out demos..... nobody is going to shell out money for a bands' demo, that's just hit the scene, just because someone dropped money into it.... remember alot of the greatest bands of our time (and times before us) have started out on a blank cassette...

-Think about it

-MrEff-

kickin it old school

AsterAzul · Post by **AsterAzul** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 10:58 pm

I would feel very silly handing out comic books to random people.

I'd probably do it anyway if I thought it was a good idea. I've never let being afraid of something stop me from trying it.

Lintjinks · Post by **Lintjinks** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:29 am

faub wrote:If lulu.com charges $20 for a 120 page book, I would call that overpriced unless it's full color.

I would say, keep the costs down as much as possible, include profit for yourself, even if you don't think you want it. You made the thing. Get a little back from in. The people buying your comic are trying to help you out a little for something they've already read in return. I handed Micheal Poe $20 for a copies of his comics and have barely flipped through them. I probably wouldn't have done it if I believed he wasn't getting something out of it.

$25 for a 140 page 100# paper full-color perfect paperback bound book isn't overpriced. I couldn't find anything less than that anywhere, including local printers.

As for the latter issue, it comes down to what you're doing this for. I'm not in this to sell books. I put my comic in book form because I had readers who wanted tangible LinT. I certainly wouldn't want people to buy my book just because they wanted ME to get paid.