Keenspace will soon be Toonspace

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Postby Dotty on Mon May 23, 2005 9:08 pm

Ghastly, if you saved us from being called Toonspace....you're my fucking hero.
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Postby Ghastly on Mon May 23, 2005 9:17 pm

If they do re-evaluate the name do us all, yourself included, a favour and USE GOOGLE THIS TIME to determine if anything similar to it is being used by another company. Jesus christ you're in the USA! The land of bogus lawsuits! In the United States you are actually obligated to sue anyone who even comes close to dilluting your trademark or else you risk losing it altogether. If you're sticking with the space motif then do a google search to see if anyone is using "(name)space" as a trademark (registered or unregistered either one will get your ass sued if it's already in use) or even "(name) space" (two seperate words) as a trademark.

It took me all of two seconds to type "toonspace" and "toon space" into google to see what came up.
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Postby Kris X on Mon May 23, 2005 9:20 pm

I say let the people who's name is being changed decide and vote on it.
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Postby [AlmightyPyro] on Mon May 23, 2005 9:27 pm

muchly so...

I can understand them telling us to change, but choosing for us isn't cool. as long as the name we choose isn't already used or resmbles KeenSpot, than it doesn't affect them at all. Why should they care what it is? WE have to deal with the new name, not them.

sorry if I'm being mean.
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Postby Chris Crosby on Mon May 23, 2005 10:53 pm

I DID use Google to search for the name beforehand, and frankly, I didn't consider that the title of someone's personal site on homepage.mac.com would be something that would have a lock on the name. If said person didn't care enough about the name to register toonspace.com (or any other variation thereof), they obviously don't have much invested in the name.

You could just as easily say that Ghastly is violating the unregistered trademark of "Ghastly" Graham Ingels, the legendary EC Comics artist, and you'd certainly have a better case than the Toonspace one.

It's hard to find ANY name in this day and age that hasn't already appeared on the web in at least one form or another. If that was our criteria, doombees would pretty much be our only choice.

But it's not over yet. Take the poll.
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Postby Ghastly on Mon May 23, 2005 11:03 pm

Except that Ghastly Graham Ingels is long dead and thus I am not competing against him.

The point is another artist is using the name Toonspace for her body of work. This means she has artem priore and since she is currently using the name that means you will be unable to register toonspace as a trademark. The best you can hope for is to dillute the trademark but that really does nobody any good because all that will mean is that anybody will be able to use the name Toonspace for their art trade the same way anyone can use asprin for their ASA medication.

But even if you could screw her out of the name why would you. Keen already has enough reputation problems to worry about, we don't need to add "assfucks artists out of their intellectual property rights".

Now if you had chose the name out of ignorance, well that's one thing. Everyone makes mistakes, you didn't know someone had prior art on the name. But if you're telling me you knew she was using the name for her art but thought "screw her, we're taking it anyways"... dude, that's just not cool. That's just not cool at all!
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Postby Ghastly on Mon May 23, 2005 11:15 pm

Also you do not need to register a domain name to have your trademark rights protected. Many a person/business has been sued for registering a domain name that is the same as a name already being used by another person/business.
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Postby Chris Crosby on Mon May 23, 2005 11:21 pm

Ghastly wrote:Except that Ghastly Graham Ingels is long dead and thus I am not competing against him.

His estate might disagree with you.
The point is another artist is using the name Toonspace for her body of work.

Which currently seems to consist of two freeware POSER 3D props.
This means she has artem priore and since she is currently using the name that means you will be unable to register toonspace as a trademark.

We're not at all interested in registering Toonspace as a trademark. The whole point of 'space (as opposed to Keenspot) is that it's open to everyone. If we used it, and that's still up for debate, it would be an open source name just as Keenspace would be if not for the brand confusion.
The best you can hope for is to dillute the trademark but that really does nobody any good because all that will mean is that anybody will be able to use the name Toonspace for their art trade the same way anyone can use asprin for their ASA medication.

That will be the case, yes.
But even if you could screw her out of the name why would you. Keen already has enough reputation problems to worry about, we don't need to add "assfucks artists out of their intellectual property rights".

You've got a point there.
Now if you had chose the name out of ignorance, well that's one thing. Everyone makes mistakes, you didn't know someone had prior art on the name. But if you're telling me you knew she was using the name for her art but thought "screw her, we're taking it anyways"... dude, that's just not cool. That's just not cool at all!

If she was doing a webcomic, or a comic hosting site, or comics of any kind, or anything at all webcomic-related, it would've been a different story entirely. But her work is in an entirely different trademark category than ours is. It's a couple of POSER props.

But you are right, we made a mistake by not contacting her to get her permission on use of the name before announcing it. That seems to be a moot point, however, as the poll points toward webcomicspace.com quite heavily.
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Postby Kris X on Mon May 23, 2005 11:50 pm

Chris Crosby wrote:If she was doing a webcomic, or a comic hosting site, or comics of any kind, or anything at all webcomic-related, it would've been a different story entirely. But her work is in an entirely different trademark category than ours is. It's a couple of POSER props.


So does this mean since my comic has nothing to do with soda or beverages I can call it Pepsi?
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Postby Yeahduff on Tue May 24, 2005 12:01 am

Probably. But Pepsi probably has better lawyers than this Toonspace chick.
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Postby AsterAzul on Tue May 24, 2005 12:05 am

Well, actually, I think you could.

I've done some research on these things and trademarks, unlike copyrights, are pretty safe to mess with as long as you don't imply a connection to the original idea.
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Postby Chibiartstudios on Tue May 24, 2005 12:23 am

Meh! Could have been worse I suppose. Not my name of choice, but then again I don't know what's already out there or any legal matters concearning this.

But in the end I'm going to end up doing the same thing I did when they called the Del Mar fair the "San Diego County fair". I just kept on calling it the Del Mar fair and still do. Not out of spite really. More out of sheer force of habit.
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Postby Pillywiggin on Tue May 24, 2005 12:30 am

AsterAzul wrote:I've done some research on these things and trademarks, unlike copyrights, are pretty safe to mess with as long as you don't imply a connection to the original idea.


HA! Tell that to the people at WWF, excuse me, WWE.
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Postby Dutch! on Tue May 24, 2005 12:35 am

I said elsewhere I would defer my judgement until I had more information.

Now I have more information I am sort of disillusioned yet indifferent at the same time.

I'm with Thatguy earlier in agreeing that Toon implies car'toony' figures and slapstick and sort of cuts out a lot of the stories being told here. Not necessarily mine, but I don't consider my work a Toon...in fact, when the name Toonspace popped up I thought 'what's this got to do with music?'. I thought of teenage yobbos in hotted up FJ Holden's driving up and down Lygon Street in Carlton playing their doof doof music and saying to their buddies 'listen to my toons'.

Anyway...as for changing the little thing at the bottom of each page...now is a bit late to be thinking 'gee, wouldn't it have been easier to have a tag that changed the name?'...

We'll live. There's more important things to worry about...like what's for dinner tonight...

...pork loin steaks...

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Postby Evil Jamie! on Tue May 24, 2005 12:40 am

Aaah! Don't do that! I'm still waiting for my pizza, and you're making the hunger woooorse! >_o
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Postby Yeahduff on Tue May 24, 2005 1:03 am

Dutch! wrote:I'm with Thatguy earlier in agreeing that Toon implies car'toony' figures and slapstick and sort of cuts out a lot of the stories being told here. Not necessarily mine, but I don't consider my work a Toon...in fact, when the name Toonspace popped up I thought 'what's this got to do with music?'. I thought of teenage yobbos in hotted up FJ Holden's driving up and down Lygon Street in Carlton playing their doof doof music and saying to their buddies 'listen to my toons'.


I think that would be "tunes."

And they do call them "political cartoons." And political cartoonists would probably be insulted if you said they draw comics.

No point, really, it's just funny.
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Postby That guy on Tue May 24, 2005 1:40 am

Chris Crosby wrote:But you are right, we made a mistake by not contacting her to get her permission on use of the name before announcing it. That seems to be a moot point, however, as the poll points toward webcomicspace.com quite heavily.


I have to say, I'm actually pretty damn impressed with your ability to take our berating your decision and respond with a degree of poise and humility. I appreciate your being willing to concede points to Ghastly, and I am very happy that it sounds like there is still a chance for it going to webcomicspace.com - long and dry though it is, it's better all around I think. As has been said before, you can never please all the people, but there's no reason to stop tyring to please as many of them as possible. Kudos to Ghastly and Cosby for some witty reparte. :wink:
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Postby AsterAzul on Tue May 24, 2005 1:43 am

Yeah, he's being a real good sport for having to play the part of everyone's villain.
Poor fellow; he did start the whole damn thing, why are we complaining so much?
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Postby Ida on Tue May 24, 2005 1:52 am

Kirb wrote:
1. Having a fine, sharp cutting edge or point.
2. Having or marked by intellectual quickness and acuity. See Synonyms at sharp.
3. Acutely sensitive: a keen ear.
4. Sharp; vivid; strong.
5. Intense; piercing: a keen wind.
6. Pungent; acrid: A keen smell of skunk was left behind.
7.
a. Ardent; enthusiastic: a keen chess player.
b. Eagerly desirous: keen on going to Europe in the spring.
8. Slang. Great; splendid; fine: What a keen day!

9. A loud, wailing lament for the dead. o-o

Hmm...


Incidentally, the last one was the first definition of 'keen' I learned...
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Postby Dutch! on Tue May 24, 2005 3:52 am

yeahduff wrote:
Dutch! wrote:I'm with Thatguy earlier in agreeing that Toon implies car'toony' figures and slapstick and sort of cuts out a lot of the stories being told here. Not necessarily mine, but I don't consider my work a Toon...in fact, when the name Toonspace popped up I thought 'what's this got to do with music?'. I thought of teenage yobbos in hotted up FJ Holden's driving up and down Lygon Street in Carlton playing their doof doof music and saying to their buddies 'listen to my toons'.


I think that would be "tunes."


Yes, but often now pronounced and, in reference to that sort of dialogue, written 'toons'.

Maybe not in America, but to our antipodean ears, that's how the word from your mouths often sounds.
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