keenime webcomics seem to be giving up way too easily

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keenime webcomics seem to be giving up way too easily

Postby KODAMA on Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:09 am

I went though maybe 20 webcomics yesterday on the keenime list ( http://keenime.keenspace.com ) and I was pretty dissapointed to find half of the comics stating "Sorry! I gave up." XD I guess even webcomics eventually die, but most of these comics just kind of... ended in the middle. You'd think that if someone had the motivation to start a webcomic, they'd be able to finish it properly too. -_- bleh.

Perhaps the abundance of dead anime/manga inspired webcomics could be blamed on poor planning and choice of a rather narrow subject (like mysterious fantasy world with one bad guy and two good guys who are going after the bad guy for no particular reason). I don't know if other comics (like sprite comics or other non-anime/manga inspired webcomics) also have such a high webcomic death rate, but we should try not to give up so quickly on our precious webcomics.

...and in other news, I cut my thumb while cooking o_<;
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Re: keenime webcomics seem to be giving up way too easily

Postby Cope on Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:23 pm

KODAMA wrote:Perhaps the abundance of dead anime/manga inspired webcomics could be blamed on poor planning and choice of a rather narrow subject (like mysterious fantasy world with one bad guy and two good guys who are going after the bad guy for no particular reason).

I think the abundance of dead anime/manga insipired webcomics can be blamed a great deal on the abundance of anime/manga inspired webcomics in general. Premature ends are a problem afflicting the entirety of webcomic-dom, not just manga-style comics.

I don't know if other comics (like sprite comics or other non-anime/manga inspired webcomics) also have such a high webcomic death rate

If they don't, I'll eat my hat. With mustard.

...and in other news, I cut my thumb while cooking o_<;

Ouch...
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Postby Risky on Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:51 pm

Wah... sorry about your thumb, I hate that. Hopefully you weren't chopping onions! Cutting yourself while cooking is very anime... they cut that out of the american version of sailormoon (Too much violence!)

It is sad how many comics end, or go on long hiatuses, or how many artists change to a new story before they finish the first one. It's not just anime/manga comics, but there are a lot of those. Even paper comics do that... Dragon Flux was only going to be 4 issues long, and it stopped at 3. Elf Life has stopped tons of times, and the comic book was stopped at 2 issues.

Keenime should probably be divided based on who is still updating, but it'd be hard to keep track of who abandoned their comics, and who only updates every couple of months.
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Postby KODAMA on Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:23 pm

Risky wrote:Wah... sorry about your thumb, I hate that. Hopefully you weren't chopping onions!


HAha I did EXACTLY that.
I was chopping up a red onion and a green pepper so they'd fit in a plastic container better. .. and the pepper tricked me!! That bastard... My mom just got the knives sharpened the day before too XD
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Postby Keffria on Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:48 pm

Ouch. My fingers are hurting in sympathy.

I think part of the problem is that so many people see an anime or read a manga and think, "gee, I could do that", and they do. Subsequently, they visit anime-drawing tutorial sites, paste together a few plots from series they've seen/read, and wait for one of the Big Names to link them. Unfortunately, lack of pacing, art, and/or coherent plot gets them, and that's it.

Ehh, actually, you probably *could* substitute any type of art for "anme or manga" and the same thing would happen. People need to find something to do when they're bored other than starting webcomics. ;^^
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Postby Wp on Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:12 pm

Yup. Just because there's a lot of manga comics out there means there's going to be a lot of dead mangas. Of course, I wish they would think twice about joining a group if they weren't that serious. I think it should take an interview or something to be able to join a dropdown.
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Postby Risky on Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:33 pm

An interview might weed out the people who are going to post 3 images and then stop, but would it really have weeded out Writer's Block or Self-Insert? Or Two Points of View? And should it have? Those were all great comics while they lasted, and while they ended abruptly mid storyline, how would you have known in advance? That's true of a lot of the dead end comics.
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Postby IVstudios on Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:11 pm

KODAMA wrote:My mom just got the knives sharpened the day before too XD


Actually, It's better to cut yourself with a sharp knife than a dull one. Dull knives leave jagged cuts that are more prone to infection, while a sharp knife makes a nice clean, easy to care for cut.

I didn't spend all those years in Boy Scouts for nothing! 8)
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Postby Wp on Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:23 pm

Risky wrote:An interview might weed out the people who are going to post 3 images and then stop, but would it really have weeded out Writer's Block or Self-Insert? Or Two Points of View? And should it have? Those were all great comics while they lasted, and while they ended abruptly mid storyline, how would you have known in advance? That's true of a lot of the dead end comics.


It's much easier to tell than you think. You have to ask things about their motivations, what their plans are for the future, how far they have planned the story line, if they have other ideas they want to try out, other time consuming hobbies, what else is going on in their lives, the update schedule, etc...

Take my comic for instance. I have my characters planned out, the storyline is very involved and almost complete, I know exactly how it's going to end, and my character concepts have been planned fairly thoroughly. I even had 20 buffer comics that I spent 6 months on before even getting an account.

If you interviewed me for all of this, you would think: "Wow, this guy has the dedication and time to commit." But if you probe further, you'll see my update schedules will be mandatorily sketchy after about 1.5 years. My future plans are extremely unclear and very busy. I expect my comic to last 2 years at most, if that. And this isn't because I will have writer's block or lose motivation. Luckily, since I don't have many fans and I'm not that interested in it, I won't have a problem if I slow down to an update every two months. But if you interviewed me, you would easily tell how long I would last.

The comics you mentioned don't have to be weeded out, although I suspect they could have been if inspected carefully. The downfall of gag comics are especially easy to predict, for example, even if they are especially good. But even weeding out comics that last no more than 3 strips is good enough. It would greatly reduce the dead comics in the Keenime dropdown. Just the fact that you have to answer a long interview is enough to deter people who aren't dedicated. You might not even have to read the interviews; just see whether or not they've been completed.

I think the main problem with the interview process is not whether or not it will do the job, but whether or not someone has enough time to process all of them.
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Postby Phact0rri on Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:06 am

well really the gave up thing, isn't keenime standard... its webcomics standard specially on keenspace. if you go to any dropdown that isn't activly removing or if you go to the guide you'll see a 3 to 1 if not greater ratio of people who have given up.

its just the nature of the beast... drawing time and again is one thing. but drawing simular characters everyday (or close to it) one can feel the burn if the characters arn't really fun to draw or if there is it a lot of change to the panel by panel.

part of the problem I have (being how my settings tend to stay the same a lot. is coming up with ways to set up panels so that it is fun to draw.
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Postby Wp on Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:25 am

My motivation is drawing improvement. And when you draw the same characters over and over again, you've got to improve somewhere. But then again, I draw a variety of poses, most of which I suck at.
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Postby KODAMA on Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:44 pm

ivstudios wrote:
KODAMA wrote:My mom just got the knives sharpened the day before too XD


Actually, It's better to cut yourself with a sharp knife than a dull one. Dull knives leave jagged cuts that are more prone to infection, while a sharp knife makes a nice clean, easy to care for cut.

I didn't spend all those years in Boy Scouts for nothing! 8)

HAHa, but that's pretty much teh reason WHY I got cut. Those knives used to be so blunt that they'd even have a hard time cutting tomatoes. >__O; ugh. Now I must get used to the sharpness and show some respect to the blade.
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Postby MixedMyth on Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:19 pm

Well, webcomics as a whole have a high infant mortality rate....er....if that's the right term for it. :lol:

The major problem I see with a lot of anime themed webcomics is that they build themselves off of a cliche. I think maybe this falls under the 'planning' you were talking about. They'll recycle not just characters and plot, but gags and individual moments. I.E. monologuing bishonen who like to plot to themselves and squint their eyes alot. Whole character architypes find their way in, unmodified. This isn't to say there aren't good ones out there, but I think a lot of the problems stem from a sort of reguritation of elements- the shy good girl, the brazen hero, the stoic and aloof antihero, the hyper squeaky child, the humorous lecher, etcetera, etcetera. Sure, quite a few of those aren't limited to anime. I'm just saying that those are the architypes I see a lot of in such comics, with few twists added to refresh them.
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Postby Risky on Sat May 14, 2005 9:54 pm

As I go through the listing hacking, slashing, and "dating" all the comics, I find that there are actually quite a few that are still sticking it out, even some that I'm kind of surprised would still be around. Two comics with very similar, even stereotypical plots... one dies, one lives on for years. Why?

By the way, if you notice that a comic seems particularly dead and is still on the dropdown (like you can't even find sequential art on their page), please post it in the dead comics thread?
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Postby MixedMyth on Sun May 15, 2005 9:10 pm

I'm very proud....I didn't give up! I actually finished! Now how many webcomics have THAT under their belt, eh? ^_^
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Postby Risky on Sun May 15, 2005 9:28 pm

So far on the dropdown (starting from the As) Chiga and Kaput, and Demonic Boppu. Now add you.

Unicorn Jelly also, but I don't think they are on the dropdown. You are the leet awesomeness.
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