6-10-2004

[Jackiesfridge]

Ok, that's just BEGGING for color!

-S

[Bushipunk]

But what colour is Grey blood? The beauty of black and white is that you never have to decide, and the comic portrays gory skull-crunching death awfully effectively without the chroma.

That said, I can't deny a visceral splash of red or green could add a certain... Something.

[Guildenstern]

I would think it would be obvious. Grey blood would be grey.

... or possibly gray.

[Mirober]

One of these days I'm going to learn how to color. I've never pursued it in any sort of vigorous manner since I've always been partial to black and white. But then, I do have a couple bookmarked pages on coloring in Photoshop I've been meaning to read for a while now ...

Anyway, more forum fun facts: that actually isn't Grey blood, but a psycho-active goo that fills their skulls and allows an individual shard of the Grey Omnimind to occupy and control the body.

It's also the same goo which fills the heads of a certain multi-bodied agent of Control.

[Seafog the 3rd]

I must say, I really liked the art on this one Matt. Very nice. And I like it in spite of it being violent, not because it's violent.
Some funny comments there guys, lets keep it up!
OK, if the grey bodies are meat puppets, why do they look like greys (vs. humans for instance), and where are the real greys (and Omnimind)? And is this some force taking over the abandoned meat puppets, or are the Muppets naturally homicidial? Is this interpretation of Grey's your own invention, or did you borrow it from somewhere? And if Miss Control agent is like the greys, which/where is her real body and how many Muppets does she have?
I thought the greys, like the fey, were decendants of the moon critters and not from the ass end of way beyond. And elder god servants to boot. Rather coherent and logical for (ex)servants of primordial chaos, aren't they.
I should probably have dug up my questions topic for this, but oh well, we'll survive.

[Mirober]

OK, if the grey bodies are meat puppets, why do they look like greys (vs. humans for instance), and where are the real greys (and Omnimind)?

What do you mean they don't look like humans? Five appendages: two for locomotion, two for physical manipulation, one with sensory organs, all laid out symmetrically along the vertical axis!!!

(This is one of the reason's the Omnimind has to acquire and use human thought maps: to their perceptions, those bodies DO look human.)

And the location of the Omnimind lies beyond this plane, somewhere in the madness that lies between worlds and dimensions (the Dreamlands).

And is this some force taking over the abandoned meat puppets, or are the Muppets naturally homicidial?

Some force taking control of them; specifically, the Shan (Insects from Shaggai).

Is this interpretation of Grey's your own invention, or did you borrow it from somewhere?

I'm pretty sure the idea that the bodies are simply meat puppets is my own (although it's not much of a leap). Other aspects are, as always, based on myth, folklore, and fiction: They're basically a Hive Mind, which we've seen plenty examples of in science fiction (everything from the Borg to the Zerg from Starcraft). They're powerful psychics, which is common to most interpretations of the Grey. They're mind set is alien, unable to fully interact with human consciousness. The supposition that these bodies aren't their true forms has been put forward by several different sources, as an explanation for why an alien race looks so much like humans. On the other hand, one aspect I'm pretty sure is my own invention is that they're not actually from outer space, but
another dimension. Crop Circles and such thus aren't landing markers, but dimensional portals. This basically came while watching the movie Signs, which I still maintain is a perfectly serviceable zombie movie. Delta Green was another good inspiration.

And if Miss Control agent is like the greys, which/where is her real body and how many Muppets does she have?

... Oh, what the hell. I'll reveal it here: it's not like it's a big secret, I just haven't had a chance to discuss it yet. Tiana was born as twins: one comatose, one fully aware of her surroundings. However, it's the comatose body which houses her physical brain, and the aware one whose skull is full of goo (i.e. a muppet [nice term, by the way]). She has as many Muppets as MK-Ultra (and then Control) was able to clone before the ban came in (and even then she's gotten a couple more on the black market).

I thought the greys, like the fey, were decendants of the moon critters and not from the ass end of way beyond. And elder god servants to boot. Rather coherent and logical for (ex)servants of primordial chaos, aren't they.

The Grey's existed before the war with the Titans, and had dealings with the Antedeluvian Civilizations. It was a rebel faction that made their deal with Tiamat and became the Fae; basically, they were shards of the Omnimind which wished to become full individuals. Tiamat simply infected their Muppet bodies with her strain of infection to allow this to occur. And it's the Shan who are servants of Azathoth, not the Omnimind (the chaos of Azathoth is anathema to them; they are much more inclined towards Yog-Sothoth).

I should probably have dug up my questions topic for this, but oh well, we'll survive.

Well, I hope that tides you over until Tuesday. And now, I really have to leave.

[Seafog the 3rd]

Some force taking control of them; specifically, the Shan (Insects from Shaggai).

Zoiks! I knew I should have cleaned out the refidgerator! Better run for it Scoob!

... Oh, what the hell. I'll reveal it here: it's not like it's a big secret, I just haven't had a chance to discuss it yet. Tiana was born as twins: one comatose, one fully aware of her surroundings. However, it's the comatose body which houses her physical brain, and the aware one whose skull is full of goo (i.e. a muppet [nice term, by the way]). She has as many Muppets as MK-Ultra (and then Control) was able to clone before the ban came in (and even then she's gotten a couple more on the black market).

Thank you. I'm rather proud of it myself.
Is her brain body still comatose? Or did they fix that? I'm kind of asking to see if the meme infection followed Tiana to her bodies or not (I'm still suprised that monkeyboy wasn't being damaged by the infection). Regardless, she's very lucky the brain body didn't die before she grew up enough to be able to look after it.

The Grey's existed before the war with the Titans, and had dealings with the Antedeluvian Civilizations. It was a rebel faction that made their deal with Tiamat and became the Fae; basically, they were shards of the Omnimind which wished to become full individuals. Tiamat simply infected their Muppet bodies with her strain of infection to allow this to occur. And it's the Shan who are servants of Azathoth, not the Omnimind (the chaos of Azathoth is anathema to them; they are much more inclined towards Yog-Sothoth).

I thought they were all gods of chaos. My bad. So basically if the Ominmind becomes powerful enough, it could join or challenge the Elder things. It's the same 'general' type of being. Or have I got this wrong again?

[Mirober]

Is her brain body still comatose? Or did they fix that? I'm kind of asking to see if the meme infection followed Tiana to her bodies or not

Still comatose.

Regardless, she's very lucky the brain body didn't die before she grew up enough to be able to look after it.

Her body was originally cared for by the MK-Ultra techs that created her, before Control took possession of her.

So basically if the Ominmind becomes powerful enough, it could join or challenge the Elder things. It's the same 'general' type of being. Or have I got this wrong again?

It is unlikely that the Grey Omnimind could ever challenge Azathoth or Yog-Sothoth (as they don't quite exist in the same manner as the Greys or our reality); lesser beings like Cthulhu or Cthuaga are more the upper limit that they could strive for.

[Seafog the 3rd]

Ooooh! I thought she was naturally born, not made. What is MK-Ultra?

OK, the big two are REALLY alien, but the others came from places more like our reality. Other bubbles in the Chaos. I really gotta read a Mythos primer.

[Zerethkat]

Ooooh! I thought she was naturally born, not made. What is MK-Ultra?

A CIA mind control experiment, involving subjecting unwitting participants to all kidns of psychoactive drugs and such without their knowledge.

Oh, and that's what it was in _our_ world, it's problaby much worse in the Strange Daze setting.

[Orion]

OK, the big two are REALLY alien, but the others came from places more like our reality. Other bubbles in the Chaos. I really gotta read a Mythos primer.

Well, basic quicky:

terran monsters: These are lovecraftian monsters that evolved here on earth, for various reasons, or are degenerate human races. Examples include ghouls, deep ones (undersea fish people), Tcho-Tcho, serpent people, etc.

Alien monsters: creatures from other worlds, dimensions, the void of space, and so on. The main difference is usually that certain spells or objects affect only non-terrene species, they also rarely appear anything like humaniod. Examples: Mi-go (advanced aliens), Elder things(almost extinct aliens), Colors out of Space, Flying Polyps, The Great Race of Yith (time travelers), and so on.

Servitor races: creatures created by or at least commonly serving greater beings, or creatures that used to. They are almost always alien as well, and spells exist to summon and bind most servitor and former servitor races. Examples: Star Spawn of Cthulhu (like him, but smaller), Shaggoths, Shantaks, Servants of the Outer Gods, Nightguants, Formless Spawn, Fire Vampires, Dark young of Shub Niggurath, and Byakhee.

Great Old Ones: These guys cover a wide range, but basically they are alien or earthly things which have somehow acheived a level of power which allows them to be called gods. In theory an existing being could become one of the Old Ones, or at least equal them in power without actually acheiving godhood. They're actual physical and magical ability tends to vary greatly. Beings like Cthulhu and Hastur can wreck whole cities, and likely know hundreds of spells. The other hand some Old Ones are barely powerful enough to break down a steel door and might know only a few dozen spells or less. One overiding theme is he fact that the Old Ones don't die, many are imprisoned and sleeping, but normal magic and attacks cannot kill them, only drive them off or imprison them. Naming them all would be kind of pointless, but they include beings like Cthulhu, Hastur, Yig, and others.

The Elder Gods: These guys are kind of theoretical, they are gods that are more or less non-hostile to humanity and tend to match mythological gods, in strange daze the Incarnates might be considered to be Elder Gods. The elder gods are usually the ones credited with imprisoning the Old Ones.

The Outer Gods: These are the big boys, they are entities which have cosmic power, although they are usually somehow restricted from interacting directly with other beings without being somehow summoned. For the most part they are only quasi-intellegent, and have minds so alien humans can't comprehend them.
Azathoth: The "ruler" of the Outer Gods and the universe, of course he also has the intellect of a bacterium.
Yog-Sothoth: The Gate and The Key, is coterminous with all points in time and space.
Shub-Niggurath: The Black Goat with a thousand young. The most worshipped Outer God, often revered by fertility cults.
Nyarlahotep: the most intellegent and possibly the most dangerous outer god, since he is the one who interacts most with humans. He is some kind of strange Messenger of the other outer gods.


Of course I imagine most of that was pretty unhelpful, but I didn't realize that till about halfway through, and I wasn't about to waste the effort.

[Guildenstern]

Ah, Nyarlathotep. Messanger and Soul of the Outer Gods. The Crawling Chaos. Basically, he's got the backing and power of the Outer Gods, and since they're usually playing, dancing and gibbering for Azathoth, he gets to do what he wants. Like all the entities from Lovecraft, he's got no love or hate for people, but will do what he finds amusing.

Also, I think he's the Ragman and the Armless Evil, isn't he?

[Orion]

...and The Beast, The Black Pharoah, The Bloody tongue, The Haunter of The Dark, and any number of incarnations. A lot of the post-lovecraft stories and the CoC game represent him as the closest to truely evil and cruel to humans. I don't remember enough of lovecraft's actual books featuring cameos from him to know whether theres any real basis or not.

[Clem]

Seafog recently asked about MKULTRA. Oddly, it is the subject of the article of the day at Wikipedia today.

MKULTRA article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKULTRA

Wikipedia home page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

[Seafog the 3rd]

Thanks Clem, nice bit of serendipity there. The article was rather sobering, that's for sure. And Canada even got wrapped up in it.

[Guildenstern]

Yeah, orion, I know he's got a thousand faces. I was just trying to confirm that the two who had shown up in the strip were him.

Although, it would be really cool to see the Bloody Tongue show up...

[Orion]

Gah, didn't connect those two any comic characters, took me waay to long to figure out who the armless evil was. I don't speak enough crazy Mythos talk to know whether the guy is speaking to Nyarlahotep or just reffering to him. Maybe you guys know more than me on that subject.

[Bushipunk]

Gah, didn't connect those two any comic characters, took me waay to long to figure out who the armless evil was. I don't speak enough crazy Mythos talk to know whether the guy is speaking to Nyarlahotep or just reffering to him. Maybe you guys know more than me on that subject.

Well, Matt's referred to him as the Ragman more than once; those posts were some time ago, though, back when he was actually appearing more often.

Bushi

[Mirober]

Yes, in Strange Daze two of Nyralathotep's identities are the Ragman and the Unknown Evil. As for MK-Ultra, yeah, one of the side projects escaped the Government investigation (by being folded into MJ-12), and continued it's work well into the eighties.

[Seafog the 3rd]

<sigh> I might regret this... but, what is MJ-12?