Some quick lessons that should have been learned in school.
The President has little to do with the economy. That is actually controlled by Congress, who make the laws, resolutions, and bills that drive how the economy works. The singular reason the economy was so good doing the Clinton years was that there was a Republican congress, who kept Clinton and his pack from screwing with the economy (most of the time by focusing on Clinton's illegal activites, buts that another story)
The main reason we are having economic problems now is that the Democrats are back in control of Congress. Ever notice when taking Economics that in the US when the Democrats control Congress the economy goes down, but when the Republicans control it, the economy goes up, reguardless of what party the sitting President Belongs to. This is simply a part of the cycle that has been known, quite literally, for centuries, reguardless of the names attached to the political parties, and in what country they are in. (ehem, Russia if you want to argue)
The ideologies that drive the US Democrats force them to drive the economy to theoritcal models that simply do not work in real life (communism, socialism)
The ideologies that drive the US Republicans drive them to work the economy to a model that should fail in theory, but works (capatilsm)
Catching the corporations however, is indicative of the sitting president. The President is the one who chooses and gets Judges into offices. The fact that the Corporations are being caught now shows what kind of President Bill Clinton had been. In his 8 years the judicial department became lax, unable to even bring down Microsoft whose done more economic harm than Enron could even dream of. Now that Bush, a Republican is back in office, the Judicial system is getting itself back in line. The Judges at the top of the judicial system realize that if they are not doing their jobs now, they can be replaced with someone who will. Thus the "rush" on corporations. That is simply the Judicial system trying to save its hide after 8 years of lax duty.
Bin Laden is another matter entirely. People, it isn't like we didn't know he was a threat. I have ragzine clips going back beyond 1999 that mention Bin Laden as a threat to the U.S.
And unless you have forgetten, less than 10 years ago the U.S. was in a flat ALL OUT WAR with Saddam H. The thing was, we won that, because of a Bush. In Operation Desert Sheild and Operation Desert Storm George Bush Sn. defined a set of goals needed to win the war, and those goals were met. Bill Clinton who also made military operations, did no such thing. (like another President in the Vietnam War) No clear goals for victory. No clear defined operations. Did we win any conflict Clinton went into? No.
Bush Jr. has not forgetten these lessons. When facing either Bin Laden or Saddam he's trying to give a focus to the mission. But when your enemey won't show his face that makes it kind of hard. The U.S. death penality isn't helping either. We (the U.S.) could already be done with Bin Laden if other countries would simply hand over the captured terrorists they do have. But they don't because the US does support the death penalty. Being forstalled on an operation because an Ally isn't an ally is nothing to blame on Bush, and he's doing the best he can with what he has. Bill Clinton also did the sort of the same thing, switching to Fidel Castro as the greatest threat to the US when his military plans were failing (and look whose still in Cuba...)
Don't even bother trying to argue that. I've been in the Army, I still do some contract work for the Army. I have about 10 friends who work in Military Intelligence as well.
You say your going to move to Ireland if that Klutz is elected again? Do you know anything of the electoral system? You don't? I thought so. You should've gotten this one in school too, but obviously, you didn't.
The U.S. electoral system is built to ensure that the person elected to the U.S. office is truely the person who represents the entire country. Because of this, the scales for the votes are weighted by land and population. Heavy population centers carry less weight than low population centers. The singular reason for this is to prevent politicians from representing there "own" narrow interests.
You see, policies that may be good for a city or town, may not be good for the rural areas and farmers. And policies that could generously benift a farmer could destroy an inner city business. US state distcricts are often drawn so that they contain a hopeful balance of the various types of people living in them. Or they are drawn so that some are totally dominating one type of population, but equel each other out in the representation. (or they are gerrymandered, but that's another topic to be dealt with using Rockets and a map of the local congress building)
In the case of the last Presidental Election, Al Gore lost more than you think. Take a look at how America voted by land. Al Gore didn't even carry 1/4 of America by land. What he did carry was densely packed cities. He didn't even take his own state. Had Al Gore been elected President, he would not have represented America. He would have actually have been the Anti-American by Land votes. His resulting policies would probably quite literally destroy the areas that didn't vote for him, because he would no interest in them.
George Bush Jr won fair and square, carrying over 3/4 of America by land. I don't know about you, but that's a hell of a lot more closer to a representation than less than 1/4. The electoral system was responsible for that. Ensuring that the candidate who did not represent the country was the candidate who did not win.
Your almost as bad as Gav over at Nukees going off over stuff that should have been learned in the school house. (and this was just part of the letter that got sent his way... never got a response from it)
The U.S. was founded by Christians for Christians (Declaration of Independance) for the Spread of Christianity (Mayflower Compact) And people are trying to now tell me God doesn't belong in schools? God doens't belong in Government? That's B.S.
You threatened to move to Ireland. Well, get out. We don't want you, and we don't need you.
the latest "rant"
the latest "rant"
I am chaos purified, Insanity unchained
Look for the Hurricane, for that is where I will be
I am the one, the only, tha Saist
Look for the Hurricane, for that is where I will be
I am the one, the only, tha Saist
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Franc28
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First of all, may I ask what the fuck does this has to do with Jackie's Fridge ?
Secondly, as an atheist, I take offense to your ignorant comments. The US was NOT founded by Godboys you idiot ! All the Founding Fathers were deists. Get your head out of your fucking Bible and actually read a history book !
While you're at it, could you please leave the continent ? We don't need parasites like you. Anyone that deadset against Western Civilisation cannot be anything but a nuisance.
Secondly, as an atheist, I take offense to your ignorant comments. The US was NOT founded by Godboys you idiot ! All the Founding Fathers were deists. Get your head out of your fucking Bible and actually read a history book !
While you're at it, could you please leave the continent ? We don't need parasites like you. Anyone that deadset against Western Civilisation cannot be anything but a nuisance.
Evil will always win because good is stupid. Yes, that includes you.
http://www.insolitology.com - the bizarre on the web, from Alex Chiu to Scientology, all in one place !
http://www.insolitology.com - the bizarre on the web, from Alex Chiu to Scientology, all in one place !
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Mirober
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- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Las Cruces, NM, USA
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Re: the latest "rant"
You seem to be ignoring Kosovo. And at least in that conflict we managed to remove the dictator. It's ten years later and Saddam is still in power, and this time we don't have his invasion of Kuwait to keep the surrounding countries pacified.Saist wrote:And unless you have forgetten, less than 10 years ago the U.S. was in a flat ALL OUT WAR with Saddam H. The thing was, we won that, because of a Bush. In Operation Desert Sheild and Operation Desert Storm George Bush Sn. defined a set of goals needed to win the war, and those goals were met. Bill Clinton who also made military operations, did no such thing. (like another President in the Vietnam War) No clear goals for victory. No clear defined operations. Did we win any conflict Clinton went into? No.
And those countries are becoming even more hestitant because the current man in office is one of the greatest proponents of the death penalty. He knows they are hesitant because of his position, and yet he does nothing to try and mollify them.Bush Jr. has not forgetten these lessons. When facing either Bin Laden or Saddam he's trying to give a focus to the mission. But when your enemey won't show his face that makes it kind of hard. The U.S. death penality isn't helping either. We (the U.S.) could already be done with Bin Laden if other countries would simply hand over the captured terrorists they do have. But they don't because the US does support the death penalty. Being forstalled on an operation because an Ally isn't an ally is nothing to blame on Bush, and he's doing the best he can with what he has. Bill Clinton also did the sort of the same thing, switching to Fidel Castro as the greatest threat to the US when his military plans were failing (and look whose still in Cuba...)
Of course he won by land. He got the votes of those of us in the Southwest. We've got frigging huge tracts of land down here. And you know what most of that land is? Nothing. No people, very few animals, just miles and miles of pure middle of nowhere. Population is what truly counts when trying to figure out what America wants. And this election we didn't want either of the candidates. Bush won. I accept that. But there is no way you're going to convince me that he was the best choice of the nation. All his election proves is that our system of government is stable, even when you toss in two candidates that are adequate at best.George Bush Jr won fair and square, carrying over 3/4 of America by land. I don't know about you, but that's a hell of a lot more closer to a representation than less than 1/4.
It was also founded for white males. Things change. Personally, I agree, the current attempts to totally disassociate religion and the educational system are beginning to reach ridiculous proportions. I also happend to think the current trends in software cross-developement towards quick and sloppy solutions are atrocious. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the coversation at hand.The U.S. was founded by Christians for Christians (Declaration of Independance) for the Spread of Christianity (Mayflower Compact) And people are trying to now tell me God doesn't belong in schools? God doens't belong in Government? That's B.S.
I have to admit BJ, the threat to leave the country did strike me as faintly ridiculous. If people like you leave, all that will be left in America are people like Saist and Rann. And then no where in the world will be safe from the new Roman Empire.You threatened to move to Ireland. Well, get out. We don't want you, and we don't need you.
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Jackiesfridge
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- Location: Oshkosh, WI
Re: the latest "rant"
Long live l'Impero Santo di Terra! All hail Emperor Mir I!Mirober wrote:...And then no where in the world will be safe from the new Roman Empire.
...sorry. Inside joke, couldn't resist. I'll go lie down now.
-S
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BanditAngel
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Am I the ONLY person who viewed the "threat" to move out of the country as a JOKE and EXADURATION (sp?) ?! Eesh, I sincerly doubts he actually has any such plans.
Anyways, I think that the original poster made some decent points, but presents them in a bad style. First off, FOCUS. The bit about religion at the end serves no purpose other than to isolate people who would have otherwise supported your position. Second off, check your facts! This country was NOT founded for Christians exclusively - Read the first amendment sometime
.
Finally, Gore won more ACTUAL VOTES than Bush, so how can you possibly claim that Bush represents the people better?! Note, I fully support Bush as president, since he won through perfectly fair and standard means - I'm just saying it's ridiculous to say Bush has more voter support. The issue of land is irrelevant - The system for elections, and the various branches, make it so that land area is already take in to account. That's why we have electoral college votes or whatever, instead of a popular vote. And so, as far as that's concerned, Gore was a very nearly equal to Bush, losing only because of Florida - If Florida had gone the other way, Gore would have had more electoral AND popular support than Bush, you realize?
Anyways, I think that the original poster made some decent points, but presents them in a bad style. First off, FOCUS. The bit about religion at the end serves no purpose other than to isolate people who would have otherwise supported your position. Second off, check your facts! This country was NOT founded for Christians exclusively - Read the first amendment sometime
.Finally, Gore won more ACTUAL VOTES than Bush, so how can you possibly claim that Bush represents the people better?! Note, I fully support Bush as president, since he won through perfectly fair and standard means - I'm just saying it's ridiculous to say Bush has more voter support. The issue of land is irrelevant - The system for elections, and the various branches, make it so that land area is already take in to account. That's why we have electoral college votes or whatever, instead of a popular vote. And so, as far as that's concerned, Gore was a very nearly equal to Bush, losing only because of Florida - If Florida had gone the other way, Gore would have had more electoral AND popular support than Bush, you realize?
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ZOMBIE USER 195
- Regular Poster
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- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:26 am
And here I thought that the country was originally inhabited by pagans and pillaged (see also: founded) by Christians. But, that also has nothin' the 'ell to do with the strip either. 
And actually, I like Ireland. They have that soap! And Bono. And Magner's Cider! And better music. Hell, let's all move there!
Um, that was a joke. JOKE!
And actually, I like Ireland. They have that soap! And Bono. And Magner's Cider! And better music. Hell, let's all move there!
Um, that was a joke. JOKE!
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BJ
- Cartoon Hero
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- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Stevens Point, WI USA
- Contact:
Thanks, Saist--unfocused, maybe, but heartfelt. The reason I appear so uninformed is because all the textbook knowledge looks and works great--on paper. Once you introduce the human element, everything goes down the tubes. I know human beings (all of us) are stupid, selfish creatures, and we mess up everything we come in contact with. That's why the electorial process is flawed, governments, religions, pop music...all seriously bent. It's because of us.
Communism is so COOL....but it will never work in real life, because all of us want just a little more than what we have. We all strive to be a little bit better, and then a little better still. (The USSR were socialists, so don't get all "Ireland" on me here.)
And regarding the Ireland comment, let's follow this equasion (which Dennis already stated in another thread):
"If that yutz gets re-elected, I'm moving to Ireland" = "If Kristy wears the same dress as me to the prom, I will just DIE!"
You've all said it before. Especially Matt. I know you wear dresses. Admit it.
Communism is so COOL....but it will never work in real life, because all of us want just a little more than what we have. We all strive to be a little bit better, and then a little better still. (The USSR were socialists, so don't get all "Ireland" on me here.)
And regarding the Ireland comment, let's follow this equasion (which Dennis already stated in another thread):
"If that yutz gets re-elected, I'm moving to Ireland" = "If Kristy wears the same dress as me to the prom, I will just DIE!"
You've all said it before. Especially Matt. I know you wear dresses. Admit it.
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Red_Cedars
- Regular Poster
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- Location: Western Washington
- Contact:
[quote="thefiretrap"]
And actually, I like Ireland. They have that soap! And Bono. And Magner's Cider! And better music. Hell, let's all move there!
[quote]
And Guiness. Not that crap that comes in a can with fizzy Widget, either. REAL Guiness, served at room temp, as it was intended.
Yeah, Ireland is starting to sound better by the minute.
R_C
(Let's not even get started on Whiskey!)
And actually, I like Ireland. They have that soap! And Bono. And Magner's Cider! And better music. Hell, let's all move there!
[quote]
And Guiness. Not that crap that comes in a can with fizzy Widget, either. REAL Guiness, served at room temp, as it was intended.
Yeah, Ireland is starting to sound better by the minute.
R_C
(Let's not even get started on Whiskey!)
==============
Sometimes, if you listen very carefully,
behind all the noise and confusion,
you can hear the Silence.
==============
Sometimes, if you listen very carefully,
behind all the noise and confusion,
you can hear the Silence.
==============
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BJ
- Cartoon Hero
- Posts: 1875
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Stevens Point, WI USA
- Contact:
Okay, I knew I could find this somewhere...
Here's some lyrics (everyone groans) from a man I admire, respect, and whose recordings I quite enjoy--the Pig, so he claims, toured with him. It was released in 1983 but probably didn't get days worth of forum posts at the time.
Keep in mind, the lyrics are shouted in a broad Southern accent, and not only are they more accurate than most people would like to admit, they embody how the rest of the world sees us. If you find the album "DaDa", it's worth the price of admission.
"I Love America" by Alice Cooper
I Love America
I love that mountain with them four big heads
I love Velveeta slapped on Wonder Bread
I love a commie...if'n he's good and dead, yup
I love America
I love Old Glory and homemade pie
I think them Russkies should be sterilized
I love my chicken Kentucky Fried...
Finger Lickin' Good!
[spoken quickly like a radio advert]
Hey there, this is A.B. Cooper from
Cooper's Carnival of Clean and Classic Cars
It's our Fourth of July [fireworks sound]...sale.
Here at Cooper's Carnival of Clean and Classic Cars
At the corner of Collins and Commerce
I've got a lot full of the finest funny looking cars money can buy
At prices even you can afford
So come on down and say hello to me, and granny
And bring the kids to meet my snake
I say, "bye"
Granny says, "bye"
And the snake says, "sssssssssss"
[back to the song]
I love General Patton in World War II
My Pocket Fisherman and my Crazy Glue
I love the Beav and Wally too, yeah
I love America
I love the bomb, hot dogs and mustard
I love my girl, but I sure don't trust her
I love what the Indians did to Custer
I love America
[approaching sounds of cavalry bugle and Indians on horses]
Here they come!
[majestic instrumental interlude]
[pasing sounds of cavalry bugle and Indians on horses]
There they go!
I love my jeans and I love my hair
I love a real tight skirt and a real nice pair
And on the fourth of July, I love the rockets' red glare
I love America
I watch the A-Team every Tuesday night
I grade'ated, but I ain't to bright
I love Detroit 'cause I was born to fight
I love America
I love the Tigers but I hate the Mets
I ride my Hog but I race my Vette
I gotta job, but hell, I'm still in debt
I love America
I love my bar and I love my truck
I'd do most anything to make a buck
I love a waitress who loves to...flirt!
They're the best kind
I love America
[begin fade]
Turn me on
Well ...gotta go now
I love America
Bye Bye, I tell you what though, I really do love it
You ain't going to catch me at no mayday rally
Okay, it's BJ again. I do love this country. I enjoy living here. I quite like not having to worry about any radical factions blowing up McDonald's (yet). I have no problem with the country. It's the government I don't trust and don't agree with. There IS a difference. It's tough for me to be patriotic when there are still people in this country who are jobless, homeless, hungry, displaced and undereducated. Let's police ourselves before we try to 'better' the rest of the world.
Cooper's song is simply mocking our whacked out ideals--we're all shallow and materialistic. The average American (and I count myself average) is pretty darned stupid.
...of course, it doesn't help that I'm not social, I hate people and I am equal parts idealist and pessimist. This may taint my viewpoints a little.
Now, to lighten things up a little, I'll share a fun fact about our household: We have no fewer than five Teddy Ruxpin dolls in this house. We keep them propped in front of a bookshelf, and the cat makes it a point to knock at least one down per day.
Here's some lyrics (everyone groans) from a man I admire, respect, and whose recordings I quite enjoy--the Pig, so he claims, toured with him. It was released in 1983 but probably didn't get days worth of forum posts at the time.
Keep in mind, the lyrics are shouted in a broad Southern accent, and not only are they more accurate than most people would like to admit, they embody how the rest of the world sees us. If you find the album "DaDa", it's worth the price of admission.
"I Love America" by Alice Cooper
I Love America
I love that mountain with them four big heads
I love Velveeta slapped on Wonder Bread
I love a commie...if'n he's good and dead, yup
I love America
I love Old Glory and homemade pie
I think them Russkies should be sterilized
I love my chicken Kentucky Fried...
Finger Lickin' Good!
[spoken quickly like a radio advert]
Hey there, this is A.B. Cooper from
Cooper's Carnival of Clean and Classic Cars
It's our Fourth of July [fireworks sound]...sale.
Here at Cooper's Carnival of Clean and Classic Cars
At the corner of Collins and Commerce
I've got a lot full of the finest funny looking cars money can buy
At prices even you can afford
So come on down and say hello to me, and granny
And bring the kids to meet my snake
I say, "bye"
Granny says, "bye"
And the snake says, "sssssssssss"
[back to the song]
I love General Patton in World War II
My Pocket Fisherman and my Crazy Glue
I love the Beav and Wally too, yeah
I love America
I love the bomb, hot dogs and mustard
I love my girl, but I sure don't trust her
I love what the Indians did to Custer
I love America
[approaching sounds of cavalry bugle and Indians on horses]
Here they come!
[majestic instrumental interlude]
[pasing sounds of cavalry bugle and Indians on horses]
There they go!
I love my jeans and I love my hair
I love a real tight skirt and a real nice pair
And on the fourth of July, I love the rockets' red glare
I love America
I watch the A-Team every Tuesday night
I grade'ated, but I ain't to bright
I love Detroit 'cause I was born to fight
I love America
I love the Tigers but I hate the Mets
I ride my Hog but I race my Vette
I gotta job, but hell, I'm still in debt
I love America
I love my bar and I love my truck
I'd do most anything to make a buck
I love a waitress who loves to...flirt!
They're the best kind
I love America
[begin fade]
Turn me on
Well ...gotta go now
I love America
Bye Bye, I tell you what though, I really do love it
You ain't going to catch me at no mayday rally
Okay, it's BJ again. I do love this country. I enjoy living here. I quite like not having to worry about any radical factions blowing up McDonald's (yet). I have no problem with the country. It's the government I don't trust and don't agree with. There IS a difference. It's tough for me to be patriotic when there are still people in this country who are jobless, homeless, hungry, displaced and undereducated. Let's police ourselves before we try to 'better' the rest of the world.
Cooper's song is simply mocking our whacked out ideals--we're all shallow and materialistic. The average American (and I count myself average) is pretty darned stupid.
...of course, it doesn't help that I'm not social, I hate people and I am equal parts idealist and pessimist. This may taint my viewpoints a little.
Now, to lighten things up a little, I'll share a fun fact about our household: We have no fewer than five Teddy Ruxpin dolls in this house. We keep them propped in front of a bookshelf, and the cat makes it a point to knock at least one down per day.
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Mirober
- Regular Poster
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- Contact:
I'll have you know, sir, that what you are referring to is the ceremonial robe and vestments of the Secret Order of Immaculate Shadows, Inheritors of the Lost Secrets of Solomon, Keepers of the Pyramid's Eye, and Last Survivor of the Roman Mystery Cults. It is not, however, A DRESS!!!BJ wrote:You've all said it before. Especially Matt. I know you wear dresses. Admit it.
Besides which, it makes me feel pretty.
People haven't trusted the government in decades, nothing new there. As for policing ourselves, think you'll agree it's kinda hard to do that with airplanes dropping out of the sky every ten minutes.BJ wrote:Okay, it's BJ again. I do love this country. I enjoy living here. I quite like not having to worry about any radical factions blowing up McDonald's (yet). I have no problem with the country. It's the government I don't trust and don't agree with. There IS a difference. It's tough for me to be patriotic when there are still people in this country who are jobless, homeless, hungry, displaced and undereducated. Let's police ourselves before we try to 'better' the rest of the world.
Same as the average Englishman, the average Japanese, the average resident of Zimbabwe. We're all humans. And part of that definition is being a moron who thinks way too highly of him/herself. Constraining that fact to Americans alone is a bit silly.Cooper's song is simply mocking our whacked out ideals--we're all shallow and materialistic. The average American (and I count myself average) is pretty darned stupid.
Basically the same, myself, except for the suicidal depression. Chill, it'll never happen. You never understand the true nature of cowardice until you stand on that ledge, look down, and realized You Can't Fucking Move....of course, it doesn't help that I'm not social, I hate people and I am equal parts idealist and pessimist. This may taint my viewpoints a little.
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BJ
- Cartoon Hero
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- Location: Stevens Point, WI USA
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I usually end up about 20 feet from the ledge, lying on my back, staring at the sky and hating myself for being too lazy to move. Eventually I get dragged home. I'm glad I don't understand the true nature of cowardice.
I do believe we can police ourselves once all this knee-jerk crap ends. Four planes in two hours, a dolt with a bomb in his shoe and more false anthrax alarms than real cases...everybody's too busy jumping at their own shadow to get back to living. That's part of the stupidity, IMO. And I only constrain it to Americans because we're all I'm familiar with.
*covetously regards Mirober's dress*
...sorry, I mean "because we're all with whom I am familiar."
*goes back to staring at Mirober's dress....plotting....*
I do believe we can police ourselves once all this knee-jerk crap ends. Four planes in two hours, a dolt with a bomb in his shoe and more false anthrax alarms than real cases...everybody's too busy jumping at their own shadow to get back to living. That's part of the stupidity, IMO. And I only constrain it to Americans because we're all I'm familiar with.
*covetously regards Mirober's dress*
...sorry, I mean "because we're all with whom I am familiar."
*goes back to staring at Mirober's dress....plotting....*
You mean it's not a Kilt?
Anywho... I wanted to make a small commentary on why Middle Eastern tribes hate Americans... Note I say Tribes, not Countries. This is the over-simplified version.
Our story starts back some 400 years BC, give or take...
Tribe A lives accross the river from Tribe B. Tribe A crosses the river to raid the farms and livestock of Tribe B. The chief of Tribe A brings his favorate pig along because he takes his favorate pig everywhere. The peasants of Tribe B try to defend themselves and in the process a spear goes into the pig instead of the chief of Tribe A. Tears in his eyes, the chief of Tribe A vows eternal vengence upon the people of Tribe B for this heinous crime. He orders his raiders to slaughter the women and children and then they go home accross the river. The survivors of Tribe B (with new wives stolen from Tribe C) vow eternal vengence against the people of Tribe A for the slaughter. Both tribes hate the Jews because a Jewish trader came along and bought the body of the pig for two shekels, paid a couple minims to get a local boy to skin the pig and tan the hide, and then sold the skin to a Phoneician for 10 denari to be used as drum heads.
Fast forward to today.
Tribes A and B, having broken up their latest alliance to destroy the Jews once and for all, decide to plot against each other for now. They look at the oil fields and say "Ah! The rich Americans built the oil fields! We will get money from them to buy weapons to destroy our enemies." Tribe A goes to the Americans first, but the Americans say, "Sorry, we don't want to get involved in local politics. We're just buying the oil." The leader of Tribe A decides that this is a lie and that the Americans are already in league with Tribe B. Tribe A goes accross the river and blows up a hotel that they thought an American had gone into.
Tribe B now goes to the Americans and asks for aid. The Americans say, "Well, we don't like what you stand for, but if you'll keep Tribe A off of our backs, we'll give you money and weapons." Tribe B takes the money and weapons and goes home, secure in their superior weaponry. During the night, Tribe C raids the storehouses of Tribe B and takes all the weapons they got from the Americans. Tribe B wakes up, discovers the theft and now is desperate for more weapons. Tribe B puts a bomb in an American student's car, blows it up, and then goes back to the Americans saying "Boy, those Tribe A folks are really bad. We'll need more money and weapons to protect you from them." So, the Americans give them more money and Weapons.
So, Tribe A hates America because we're giving weopons and money to their enemies. Tribe B hates America because we're stupid and we're allied with the Israelis, but they'll gladly take our money and weapons in order to use them against us and anyone else who comes along. Tribe C hates America because we didn't offer them money and weapons first. At this point the three tribes band together and start attacking American interests because of "American policies of oppression". Eternal vengence is put on hold because it's more fun to attack someone who won't fight back.
When the Americans finally get fed up and DO fight back, then we're oppressing peasants in third world countries. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Doc
Anywho... I wanted to make a small commentary on why Middle Eastern tribes hate Americans... Note I say Tribes, not Countries. This is the over-simplified version.
Our story starts back some 400 years BC, give or take...
Tribe A lives accross the river from Tribe B. Tribe A crosses the river to raid the farms and livestock of Tribe B. The chief of Tribe A brings his favorate pig along because he takes his favorate pig everywhere. The peasants of Tribe B try to defend themselves and in the process a spear goes into the pig instead of the chief of Tribe A. Tears in his eyes, the chief of Tribe A vows eternal vengence upon the people of Tribe B for this heinous crime. He orders his raiders to slaughter the women and children and then they go home accross the river. The survivors of Tribe B (with new wives stolen from Tribe C) vow eternal vengence against the people of Tribe A for the slaughter. Both tribes hate the Jews because a Jewish trader came along and bought the body of the pig for two shekels, paid a couple minims to get a local boy to skin the pig and tan the hide, and then sold the skin to a Phoneician for 10 denari to be used as drum heads.
Fast forward to today.
Tribes A and B, having broken up their latest alliance to destroy the Jews once and for all, decide to plot against each other for now. They look at the oil fields and say "Ah! The rich Americans built the oil fields! We will get money from them to buy weapons to destroy our enemies." Tribe A goes to the Americans first, but the Americans say, "Sorry, we don't want to get involved in local politics. We're just buying the oil." The leader of Tribe A decides that this is a lie and that the Americans are already in league with Tribe B. Tribe A goes accross the river and blows up a hotel that they thought an American had gone into.
Tribe B now goes to the Americans and asks for aid. The Americans say, "Well, we don't like what you stand for, but if you'll keep Tribe A off of our backs, we'll give you money and weapons." Tribe B takes the money and weapons and goes home, secure in their superior weaponry. During the night, Tribe C raids the storehouses of Tribe B and takes all the weapons they got from the Americans. Tribe B wakes up, discovers the theft and now is desperate for more weapons. Tribe B puts a bomb in an American student's car, blows it up, and then goes back to the Americans saying "Boy, those Tribe A folks are really bad. We'll need more money and weapons to protect you from them." So, the Americans give them more money and Weapons.
So, Tribe A hates America because we're giving weopons and money to their enemies. Tribe B hates America because we're stupid and we're allied with the Israelis, but they'll gladly take our money and weapons in order to use them against us and anyone else who comes along. Tribe C hates America because we didn't offer them money and weapons first. At this point the three tribes band together and start attacking American interests because of "American policies of oppression". Eternal vengence is put on hold because it's more fun to attack someone who won't fight back.
When the Americans finally get fed up and DO fight back, then we're oppressing peasants in third world countries. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Doc
A topic good enough to make me register :)
Well, two thoughts. One, why's everybody saying moving to Ireland is such a farfetched thing? If the opportunity presents itself, I'd jump at the chance to go abroad and work for a couple years in Ireland. In fact it's a goal of mine. Secondly, Doc's comment about Tribes A & B is right-on, and what I don't understand is why we're "damned if we don't" (give money/weapons to Tribes A/B). Honestly--giving weapons is something plenty of people can agree is a Bad Thing (tm) but, to me, (an admitted isolationist) giving money, rather than solutions such as food/humanitarian aid, is poor foreign policy. Of course, I haven't taken those Poli Sci courses I plan to take yet, so maybe I just don't understand the reasons.
...Fun discussion though, guys! I just had to get in on it.
...Fun discussion though, guys! I just had to get in on it.