Computer fonts?

[Kellogg]

Hey folks,

Monday's strip has the lettering re-done with a canned font.
I've had a few folks complain that my handwriting is hard to read,
so let me know: Is this an improvement? Is it worth it?

What do you think?

Scott

[ZOMBIE USER 8834]

I haven't found your handwriting difficult to read since the very early strips. But the computer font does give the comic a tidier feel that looks nice. You have the same tendancy I do, where the words tend to ride a sine wave across blank white space.

My reccomendation would be to close your talk-balloons around the words to further sharpen that up. There's a lot of white space which conflicts with the dark background of the strip.

--TK

[ZOMBIE USER 10683]

I like the typefont you chose for monday. hand-lettered is OK, but it does tend to wander around the page. You might try fitting the word-balloons to the text, rather than the opposite.

PS: A belated compliment: Jenny's character has undergone a lot of needed development/explanation during the past month, making her motivations easier to understand.

[Mako]

Well I do like the new font. It does add a "cleaner" appearance to the strip and of course legibility won't be a problem for anyone. I suspect you can get more dialog into each bubble, or reduce the size of the bubbles too...?

A Herbivore Home Owners Association and doggie doors??? Ha!

CYa!
Mako

[Kellogg]

Well, I'm glad it's going over well.

It may take a bit of getting used to as I learn how to do this.
It's kind of difficult to figure out exactly how to match up the
lettering with the balloons. I may end up adding the balloons
in photoshop, rather than my hand drawn ballons.

Anyway, with such encouragement, I'll just have to experiment
with it until I get it right.

BTW, thanks should go to The Gneech of "Suburban Jungle"
for the suggestion.

Scott

[Kellogg]

A Herbivore Home Owners Association and doggie doors??? Ha!

You gotta watch out for those gated communities... Their restrictions can
be really shocking. Lots of them have barbed wire and electric fences
to keep the predators out.

Scott

[Matt Trepal]

It may take a bit of getting used to as I learn how to do this.
It's kind of difficult to figure out exactly how to match up the
lettering with the balloons. I may end up adding the balloons
in photoshop, rather than my hand drawn ballons.

Just make sure you leave enough room so that the digitally-added balloons don't cover up anything important!

I like the new look, Scott, since unless you've got excellent handwriting, it usually doesn't work well. Which is not a specific knock on you, because I never had problems reading your text, but I like the clean look a digital font provides. And it has the added bonus of not requiring all that tedious inking of the text!

On the other hand, I don't like the Comic MS font. I like fonts that look more like handwriting than real handwriting, and Comic MS appears too artificial to me. Scott, have you ever been to Blambot? It's a site that has lots of comic-specific fonts, including text, title, and sound-effect fonts, and a good chunk of them are free. That's where I got the text font I use (Blambot Classic) and a lot of the ones I use for sound effects & stuff.

Anyway, with such encouragement, I'll just have to experiment
with it until I get it right.

Well, that's the way to do it. Find something you like, and then go with it.

[Kellogg]

Hey Matt,

Once upon a time, I downloaded a bunch of different fonts,
and then lost 'em in a computer crash. Never went back to look
'em up again. I'd lost the BlamBot URL! Thanks!

Just make sure you leave enough room so that the digitally-added balloons don't cover up anything important!

Composing the frames may take a little getting used to.
I got some really neat tips from The Gneech, though, I'll
try to put to good use!

I like the new look, Scott

YAY!

I like the clean look a digital font provides. And it has the added bonus of not requiring all that tedious inking of the text!

Well, I think I'm going to be hand inking the originals anyway, just
because that's often when I do my best editing, gag tightening, and
re-writing! You're staring at the page for hours while you're inking
it, so my mind keeps thinking, "Can I write this sentence better...?

[Comic MS vs Blambot Classic]

Looking through Blambot, I don't see Blambot Classic available...?
I notice GPF uses MS Comic. I see a bunch of the fonts that
Schlock Mercenary uses on Blambot

Cool! Now, if only I could find a nice Calligraphy type font.

If you ever wanted to know: Guys snore with big sound effect fonts.
Ladies snore in fancy Calligraphy.

Thanks again Matt!

Scott

[Matt Trepal]

Looking through Blambot, I don't see Blambot Classic available...?

Now that I think about it, it might be called Blambot Custom, but you're right, it doesn't seem to be available any more. In fact, there's a lot of fonts that I grabbed from them that aren't there any more.... But "Digital Strip" or "Letter-O-Matic" come close. Or, if you want, I could send it to you.

I recall reading Jeff Darlington's tips on how he did GPF, and he mentioned that the first thing he did on any strip was draw the text balloons, because then he could figure out how much space was left for the pictures. I thought this was a pretty good tip, and it's one that I've used ever since. I figure that I'll pass it on to you, though it's something you might do already. Of course, I had to figure out how to limit my writing to 10-point text....

[Kellogg]

Looking through Blambot, I don't see Blambot Classic available...?

Now that I think about it, it might be called Blambot Custom, but you're right, it doesn't seem to be available any more. In fact, there's a lot of fonts that I grabbed from them that aren't there any more.... But "Digital Strip" or "Letter-O-Matic" come close. Or, if you want, I could send it to you.

I just found Blambot Custom on the 1001 Fonts site. Thanks!

I recall reading Jeff Darlington's tips on how he did GPF, and he mentioned that the first thing he did on any strip was draw the text balloons, because then he could figure out how much space was left for the pictures. I thought this was a pretty good tip, and it's one that I've used ever since. I figure that I'll pass it on to you, though it's something you might do already. Of course, I had to figure out how to limit my writing to 10-point text....

Yeah, I'm going to have to figure out how to do that too. Well, it'll
take a bit of a learning curve, I'm sure.

Thanx!

Scott

[Kellogg]

PS: A belated compliment: Jenny's character has undergone a lot of needed development/explanation during the past month, making her motivations easier to understand.

Yeah, *sniff* she's growing up. She's not the Mysterious Unnamed Vixen anymore... *sniff!*



Scott

[Baxtrr]

Hey folks,

Monday's strip has the lettering re-done with a canned font.
I've had a few folks complain that my handwriting is hard to read,
so let me know: Is this an improvement? Is it worth it?

What do you think?

Scott

Well, a lot of people have weighed in as to the legibility and improved clarity of this maneuver, and I hope I'll be excused for playing Devil's Advocate here, as much to generate thoughtful discussion as anything else.

Let's start with a very simple question: what would the argument between Jack Black and Tora Scobee have looked like in canned fonts?

I have always been of the opinion that lettering carries a far greater impact than the mere words it conveys. It's true that untrained lettering can detract from the professionalism of a strip, but it's also true that well-done lettering adds to the artist's unique stamp. Try to imagine the work of Vaughn Bode' if he'd used canned fonts! Or Dave Sim, or Will Eisner, or Phil Foglio....

Letters on paper have power, not only for what they say but for how they say it. Perhaps I'm biased, having a couple of precious tapes in my studio of music by Scott that he'd hand-lettered and decorated for me years and years ago, but I find Scott's lettering to be an integral part of the 21CF look. I, for one, would miss his lettering, and would strongly encourage an integrated approach to mixing hand and computer lettering (at the very least) in a way that was cohesive, non-distracting, and engaging.

My personal opinion, just to really do the cat/pigeon interface thing, is that the time to make a decision as to computer or hand lettering is before a strip goes out... and I mean the very first strip. The audience gets used to a certain look, and unless the artist does NO tricks with lettering at all and merely wants to convey readable words, changing the lettering later makes the strip look partly canned and the work of someone who's too lazy to learn proper lettering, which IMO is as important a skill as proper inking and storyboarding when it comes to presenting a comic strip effectively.

To answer my question above: it's possible that a lot of digging for fonts, creative mucking about in Photoshop with the letters once rasterized, and so on, could have carried the weight of emotion that we have enjoyed in that exchange, and maybe even improved its readability.

But would it have been SCOTT?

bax

[Kellogg]

Hey Bax,

Well, I think that in places where the emotional content is high, or where a word needs to be emphisized, I'll stick to hand drawn lettering.

In Monday's strip, the spacing of the words got a bit off, but Beth is emphisizing the word "is" in "Well, that is the point you know..."

That's still my own hand drawn is in there.

I'm learning a lot as I go along. I did try an early experiment with
computer text, but it got all messed up when I reduced the page.
It's time to try it again and see if I can get it right.

I still ink all the words on the page anyway. If something comes out
better with ink than it does with fonts, I'll make the choice, but up to now, this is an option I haven't had, 'cause I didn't know how to do it. As I said, it will probably take me a while to get the hang of it, but I think it will be a valuable tool in cases where I don't want the lettering to be 'intrusive'. (Dunno if that's the right word, but it more or less fits.)

Hum. An example where it might be best used would be when characters are having a technical discussion. It's the *idea* that I'm trying to get across that's the important thing, rather than the emotional content.

Hum... On the other hand, this makes me think that perhaps the 2 strips, I've got done for Friday would probably look better hand lettered.

Ooops.

Well, we live and learn.

Trust me, you'll see some hand lettered strips next week.

Scott

[ZOMBIE USER 8834]

I agree that a mixture is best. But that was not the question that Scott posted. He was asking if we liked the fonts. In general, I think they look good.

--TK

[Kellogg]

By the way, I played around considerably with differing fonts on this strip to try to emphisize the right words, to varying degrees to try to convey the emotional content without my handwriting.

Any thoughts?

Scott

[Baxtrr]

By the way, I played around considerably with differing fonts on this strip to try to emphisize the right words, to varying degrees to try to convey the emotional content without my handwriting.

Any thoughts?

Scott

You're heading in the right direction. The colored word balloons were a very nice touch, definitely a unique Kelloggism that communicates effectively. So, well done. (and if I was wrong to point out what I did, and in fact you were only interested in what TKarrde had pointed out, I'm sorry. I took it as a more general chance to comment.)

bax

[Matt Trepal]

I like the way you've been experimenting with the text styles, Scott. I think 21CF will benefit more from the varied styles, since that's what you often did with your hand-lettering.

On a related note, I feel that your speech balloons work better with your hand-lettering, though, and I thought that the fonts looked best when you used the digital speech balloons. When was that, Wednesday? The first strip had digitally-rendered ovals with computer font, which I though looked good. The second strip had your usual hand-drawn balloons with font. You have unusually-shaped speech balloons, and I think your hand-lettering works better in them.

Just my two cents, though.

[Kellogg]

You're heading in the right direction. The colored word balloons were a very nice touch, definitely a unique Kelloggism that communicates effectively. So, well done. (and if I was wrong to point out what I did, and in fact you were only interested in what TKarrde had pointed out, I'm sorry. I took it as a more general chance to comment.)

Not at all! You pointed out a very, valid concern about how my handwriting does vary, even reflexivly when I'm lettering. Especially
emotional stuff.

For instance, I was kind of disappointed in the way the lettering was so flat in the strip where Jenny is talking about how Bambi dolls are physically perfect. It was meant to come off as a mild annoyance with a touch of sadness. But, it came out very very flat when I read it.

I think today's is much better in that regard, and I'm much happier with it, but I specifically had your comments in mind when I started playing with it to get it right. So, yeah, feedback is *VALUABLE!* THANKS!

Scott

[Kellogg]

I like the way you've been experimenting with the text styles, Scott. I think 21CF will benefit more from the varied styles, since that's what you often did with your hand-lettering.

Thanks Matt!
After experimenting with different fonts, I've decided to go with Comic MS Font for things said in just a normal tone of voice. I did try the Blambot Custom (Or is it Classic?) but, no offence to you of course, I found I had to look harder at it to read it, and I could read Comic MS faster.

However, I did find myself flipping between Comic MS and Blambot a LOT for this week's strips. Blambot is a slightly bolder font, so I'll use it for words that are emphisized and stuff. I'll probably find others that suit different tones of voice, but these two seem to work pretty darn good! I owe you for pointing that one out!

On a related note, I feel that your speech balloons work better with your hand-lettering, though, and I thought that the fonts looked best when you used the digital speech balloons. When was that, Wednesday? The first strip had digitally-rendered ovals with computer font, which I though looked good. The second strip had your usual hand-drawn balloons with font. You have unusually-shaped speech balloons, and I think your hand-lettering works better in them.

The strip with the digital speach bubbles was actually fixed by The Gneech. We were throwing art and suggestions back and forth for Tiffarella. It was he who gave me the impetus to put in the computer fonts. I showed him the strip with computer fonts, all proud of myself
and then he fixed up the word balloons.

We actually went over how to do digital speech balloons, but I haven't
quite got the hang of it yet. You'll see more of them as I get more comfortable with 'em. They're going to require some adjustment on my part. My mental image of the strip, as I start to draw it, is based on my speach bubbles. That is: Draw the words first, then figure out where the art goes and stuff. Now the process is changing and I need to figure out how it works best.

One thing that helps right now, is that they're inside a very very large house. To convey the space of the house, the backgrounds are on the spartan side. Anyway, I'm working on it. Actually, today's strip used 3 digitally rendered balloons.

PS. One trivial thing. If you've noticed the interior color scheme of the house, it's fairly obvious that it was Barb who was the dominant force in choosing colors. She likes cute pink stuff.

Scott

[Matt Trepal]

Thanks Matt!

You're welcome! I try to be helpful.

After experimenting with different fonts, I've decided to go with Comic MS Font for things said in just a normal tone of voice. I did try the Blambot Custom (Or is it Classic?) but, no offence to you of course, I found I had to look harder at it to read it, and I could read Comic MS faster.

Does this mean you have trouble reading FCE?

Actually, today's strip used 3 digitally rendered balloons.

Hm. I hadn't actually noticed this until you pointed it out. Probably because you've used the colored speech balloons before (to excellent effect, I might add), so I really didn't notice. Which, I suppose, is a good thing, since it means that it's not intruding upon the reader and his or her experience. Or, it just means that I don't pay enough attention to stuff like that.