New beginnings

Postby Wimpystuntmen on Wed Jul 04, 2001 4:28 am

Okay, well after looking at my site in comparison to others out there I thought I needed to spruce it up a bit. Nothing fancy, just a little here or there. I like having a black and white cartoon on a black background so that'll stay the same.<P>It's really only things like adding a cast, bio, links etc, perhaps some of my other work. A couple years ago I did a very basic strip called Bob the Spore which I think I'll add to this site when I get the time.
Still to me what's important is seeing the cartoon and all the rest is just eye candy.
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Postby Throbbin Johnny on Wed Jul 04, 2001 8:25 am

SPORE...one of J.Diddy's fav words!!!<P>The new look is great, wimpy! The cast bio is fun to read, as is your bio. Johnny always enjoys reading artists bio's. Makes you feel like you're not the only hopeless cartoon-romantic in the world, ya'know?<P>In any case, it done look good...<P>"Throbbin' Johnny
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Postby Yupyop on Thu Jul 05, 2001 6:22 am

I like all the changes. I'm disappointed I can't find anything to nitpick <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/frown.gif">
I look forward to reading your other work. More chances for Yupyop the "expert" to stomp on your dreams.
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Postby Wimpystuntmen on Fri Jul 06, 2001 12:12 am

Well if Yupyop can't find anything to nitpick then I must be on the right track.
I do have some minor nitpicks that I'll fix up and then my wife's apparently found some typo's .....<P>yes, need to draw more and introduce more of these characters I've had for a while but not shown too much of so far.
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Postby Pinot on Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:46 am

Hi, Guys. Guess who.<P>I came here to get Jeff's email address so I could write him, but I saw Johnny and Mike here so I thought I'd just post something instead. I even REGISTERED to do this! Something I don't normally do.<P>Dawn here. I'm upset. And I don't want to talk about it on Toontalk. It's too public. Not friendly and intimate like it used to be when I started there. You know what I mean? It used to feel like a small circle of friends going out for a beer after work. Not anymore. There is this undertow of unpleasantness that drags me down. I no longer enjoy it there. I just stuck around for the animation bit. <P>I'd appreciate it if nobody posted there that I came over here!, okay?!<P>Not that I mean to crash your party here. I don't expect to stay long. I just wanted to stop in. Maybe whine and cry a bit.<P>I talked to Lee Salem today. He and his editorial staff had a meeting yesterday. They like Cloud 8, my panel. He has shown it to only one salesman so far but IF the others agree that it's good and think it will sale, they want to launch it in January.<P>So I should be happy, right? <P>But there was another if! IF I dump my present artist and let them partner me with someone!<P>So Jeff, you shouldn't feel bad, 'cause after you, I talked Jon into doing it and he actually started getting excited about it. He's a very good artist! Better than 90% of the cartoonists now in the paper! And now they don't want him either.<P>I've worked with Jon for almost 4 years now! If it weren't for him, I wouldn't have gotten this far. And I ENJOY working with him. I could tell you horror stories about other artists I tried to work with before him! It's not easy to find such a good working relationship!<P>I told Lee no, I'm not interested in dumping Jon like an old shoe. How could I do that at this point? I can't. Lee said he understands and he's willing to let Jon try to vary his style, to try to make it more distinctive and interesting (Easier said than done!...how does one come up with a completely NEW look?)<P>But now Jon's feelings are hurt and you can imagine what he's saying about Lee and UPS and this whole stinking industry after all these years of working so hard for nothing.<P>So I don't know what's going to happen. I guess we're just going to have to suck it up and keep plugging away and jump more hurdles, just as we have for years now. We've jumped so many, you'd think we'd be in good shape for it, but I tell you what, I'm getting tired and worn out. They never seem to end. <P>I wouldn't be surprised if we work and work and work on Cloud 8 and come Jan. there will be something that's come in that they like better and toss BOTH of us over. <P>It's a dog eat dog industry, that's for dang sure.<P>
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Postby Pinot on Sat Jul 14, 2001 12:05 am

Hi, Yup. Thanks for the welcome.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What does Jon enjoy drawing most? Develop something featuring that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's funny you should say that. As I've said before, Cloud 8 is daily-only. Since they aren't going for the Sunday animation, I started thinking about maybe doing a Sunday-only comic. The first thing that popped into my head is actually a great idea, and definitely in keeping with Jon's style.<P>I'm going to work on a few samples today and throw it out to Lee and Jon and see what they think. Jon is in college and it would probably be a good thing for him to just have a Sunday. One of his strengths is color, so this could work out perfectly! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><P>
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Postby Yupyop on Sat Jul 14, 2001 1:13 am

Great! I hope that means I'll FINALLY get to enjoy cartoonist Dawn Douglas' work next year! Or sooner.
BTW, I understand your feelings about ToonTalk. I visit here for my Comics Edge fix. I enjoy watching talented cartoonists develop. And its fun to be a critic for artists still open to comments about their work. I've been surprised that my favorite type of post at ToonTalk is not feedback but asking a question. Unless you're all knowing Fran everything is perspective and I enjoy reading other's POV. Amazingly Jeff not only tolerates me but makes me feel welcome here. But unless one is having fun what's the point of posting?
"Yup" aka Mike
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Postby Yupyop on Sat Jul 14, 2001 10:34 am

Dawn, welcome! Make yourself at home and stay awhile. But no beer, Johnny is in training <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
All of us here have dealt with the negative side of life as a writer or artist. I spent over a decade of my life obsessed with writing for TV and film. Only to discover I didn't like what I had to do to survive the business. I still write but my obsession is gone. Currently I'm trying other formats. I enjoyed doing "Telly", my text only comic at CE. Now I'm experimenting with those characters in the form of a novel. Too many cartoonists view syndication as the Holy Grail and miss all the other possible opportunities available.
Dawn, can "Cloud 8" exist only in a newspaper? There are magazines that feature recurring comic strips. The Alternative Newspaper market is growing in size and in variety of content. Maybe Lee will test "Cloud 8" with a book, as UP did with "The Big Picture".
As for Jon. Maybe I'm wrong here but it sounds like UP all ready has an artist in mind and would reject anyone you pick no matter how good that artist is. Style plays a more important role than talent in cartooning. Imagine Frank Cho drawing "Cathy".
So before you give up your dream, ask yourself are you forcing Jon into a bad situation of working where he no longer feels welcome or feels guilty over costing you your dream? Of what I know about this, I'd let the syndicate pick the artist, have my lawyer reexamine the contract to see what my rights of ownership are, and help Jon find his own dream. What does Jon enjoy drawing most? Develop something featuring that?
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Postby Wimpystuntmen on Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:28 am

Dawn this is really sad news. I know how important a good working relationship is to you - and how important Jon has been. And I remember reading a couple of your posts about horror writer/artist relationships. Obviously this is a decision for you and I couldn't offer advice - only support from afar.<P>My first inkling that this was dog eat dog was a couple years back when I read that thesis by Stu Rees on the industry. It basically ended any grand plans of mine for making it big in the industry. So I just tinker around the edges now. The great thing about cartooning is you can leave it behind and come back to it 6 months later and its still there - you haven't lost too much (unlike my accounting degree which is just about obsolete).<P>And BTW you're always welcome here, it is very intimate - basically just me, Mike and Johnny (although I do get more hits than that so someone's looking?).<P>Also, please feel welcome to email me. I've thought about emailing you on occassion just to say hello. Oh, and I've had some emails back and forth from John McPherson and Leigh Rubin. They've both been very supportive.
Leigh emailed me the other day and wrote "... and whatever you do do give up". I think he meant "don't" give up.
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Postby Pinot on Sun Jul 15, 2001 6:56 am

Hi Jeff! It's good to talk to you again. Thanks for your support!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Also, please feel welcome to email me. I've thought about emailing you on occassion just to say hello. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Please do. I'd really like to stay in touch. I've been keeping a lookout for you on Toontalk, but I haven't seen you over there in a long time. Now I'm not visiting there myself.<P>Glad you got in touch with John Mc. He's great.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Leigh emailed me the other day and wrote "... and whatever you do do give up". I think he meant "don't" give up. [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><lol> Don't count on it! Some of these cartoonists, like Fran, don't like the competition of newcomers! :lol<P>Y'all want to see my artist's work? Here's a couple of things he did when we first started working together...I guess it's been about 4 years. He was just 21 then. The first one is from our first effort, "Madison's Avenue" (Madison is the female pig). In the second, I made the pig male. What can I say? I like pigs. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> But then I got smarter and gave up all the "pretend" characters.
<A HREF="http://www.teleport.com/~jarmstr/classiccolor.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.teleport.com/~jarmstr/classiccolor.htm</A> <P>
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Postby Throbbin Johnny on Sun Jul 15, 2001 7:13 am

Hey Dawn!! Welocme! We have fun, supportive "talks" here. It's kinda like a creative incubator. <P>Johnny wouldn't dump Jon either. You've BOTH worked hard pursuing a dream...as a team. Keep the team intact. Obviously, you've gotten farther than most as a team, so the talent is there. Jon should look at Lee's comments as positive feedback. Positive, because any critique that can help him get better is positive! Johnny has changed his style several times over the past three years. You can't stay married to one style if you want to improve, IJO. Versatility. Maybe he draws CLOUD 8 one way, and his own toons another? <P>Sorry to hear that ToonTalk isn't the same for you anymore. Johnny still loves it there. CE was Johnny's "first", and enjoyed posting with you, Darrin, and the CE Refugees
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Postby Wimpystuntmen on Sun Jul 15, 2001 8:52 am

Hey, I loved it. Jon shouldn't be too deflated, he's got more talent for drawing in his pinky than I have in my whole body.
I've decided to go with the clown concept but I want to keep this Elephant thing going for the drawing practice and the fun I'm having with it. And for you guys. I don't get the feedback and thought provoking comments about cartooning at home.<P>With TT, I usually visit daily on my lunch break when I'm at work, but I haven't had anything to say or add lately. <P>John McP is great but I'd also say Leigh Rubin has been as well. I sort of took that comment out of context when related to previous emails we've had. But I do take your point about some cartoonists.<P>And Johnny obviously not only throbs where we thought he throbbed, but all over (arms, legs, buttocks, etc). It's an interesting mix though - body builder cartoonist.<P>Mike, well he's the thinking man's cartoon guru. He asks the questions I wish I'd thought of and analyzes comics with a fine tooth comb.
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Postby Pinot on Sun Jul 15, 2001 9:50 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wimpystuntmen:
[B]Hey, I loved it. Jon shouldn't be too deflated, he's got more talent for drawing in his pinky than I have in my whole body.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hey, don't sell yourself short. Or me either! I liked your art, remember?! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>John McP is great but I'd also say Leigh Rubin has been as well. I sort of took that comment out of context when related to previous emails we've had. But I do take your point about some cartoonists.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh, I was just joking about that. I had put a LOL thing before my sentence so you'd know I was kidding, but it just disappeared somehow. I confess I'm not real good at all this icon and bold and stuff.<P>What does Leigh Rubin do? I'm not familiar with that cartoonist. <P>
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Postby Yupyop on Sun Jul 15, 2001 10:16 am

Thanks for a look at your past work, Dawn. All writers and artists grow over time. I find it hard to look at my past stuff. I admire your bravery <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> Jeff knows how I love to nitpick, so...
I liked them. I'm a fan of funny animal strip. Jon has a good cartoonist's eye. The angle movement in the first three panels in gag one helped make the gag visually interesting. Panel Two and Three of gag two are visually funny. I enjoyed subtle touches such as the look of the pig's home in gag one. IMO both gags would be better with less detailed setups. Gag two punchline has a problem with believablity. Dawn, I see two punchlines in gag two. First end with the visual of the pig light. Second the verbal comments. If you were doing this today would you make two gags or keep it as one?
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Postby Pinot on Sun Jul 15, 2001 10:59 am

Thanks for the comments, Mike.<P>Yeah, if I had it to do over, I'd cut out the pig's thought balloon in the last frame, just show him with that cartoon black cloud over his head expressing anger/frustration/unhappiness and keep the second comment. <P>I think of all the one's we've done, Madison holds the fondest memories for both Jon and myself. Maybe because it was the first we worked on. Or maybe it was because we could be a bit more outrageous. I don't know. <P>Jon still gives me pigs for birthday and christmas gifts, which I like! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
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Postby Pinot on Sun Jul 15, 2001 11:05 am

Hey, Johnny.<P>So are you going to post something from your submission here? I'd love to see it. I can't imagine what kind of comics you do. <P>Good thing I don't know your real name. I might feel compelled to warn Lee to wear gloves when he looks at it! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif"><P>
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Postby Yupyop on Mon Jul 16, 2001 4:24 am

Leigh Rubin does the panel "Rubes" for Creators syndicate.
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Postby Wimpystuntmen on Mon Jul 16, 2001 8:14 am

Hey I wasn't selling you short. I thought the strips you posted were great. That thing with the plugs is something I went through on the weekend. I've got 2 power boards connected up to one another as we speak. If only I could find a pig to plug into when it blows. I do have a dog ...<P>My art needs work in my own opinion as well as others. So I do want to improve on it.
Gotta go, have a lunch date ....
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