Film Noir

Postby Chanilye on Sun Dec 02, 2001 5:30 am

Hi everyone :)<P>Recently, thanks to a certain writer, a whole bunch of us from a certain irc channel have become very into film noir :) <P>So what is it that you like or dislike about this genre? It's funny to me how many of us (including me) haven't seen many of the classics, but still know an awful lot about it through pop culture :) <P>If I had to name one thing I liked, it would be the banter. When you have intelligent characters playing off each other...it's a beautiful thing :) <P>Oh, and who's going to host the film noir movie fest, so we can all get caught up? ;) I'll bring the baked goods :)<P>Chani<P>"I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way"
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Postby Uncle Benny on Sun Dec 02, 2001 11:18 am

holy cluster fuck batman, I've lost all knowledge of understanding actual coherent conversations... ummm... ummm...<P>damn...<P>If I know what movies I saw that's considered film noir I might have a clue, but as of now, I'm just floating up the shit creek without a paddle...
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Postby Coota on Sun Dec 02, 2001 11:51 am

Well, Benny, let me give you a quick crash course in noir:<P>Film Noir normally revolves around a cynical, world weary character's search for truth. This could be a reporter(His Girl Friday), a Government agent(Notorious, Charade), a detective(The Maltese Falcon, the Big Sleep, Bladerunner), an ordinary cop(LA Confidential), a criminal(Nothing comes to mind at the moment), or an ordinary joe(Double Indemnity, Dark City, Memento, The Big Steal). It normally contains certain conventions(such as the hardboiled detective and the femme fatale), but does not neccessarily need them. It relies more on dialogue and strength of characters personalities than actual plot, because the plot is not the important part of the film(most film noirs have almost identical plots, but it doesn't matter). They're basically studies of human nature, and were heavily inspired by the German Expressionism movement. Female heroes are rare, but not unheard of(Notorious, His Girl Friday), though in most noir they are usually in the role of obstacle to the main character.<P>However, after the early fifties, film noir basically evaporated as a movement. It has since been combined with a multiplicity of other genres(most notably, sci-fi, with Bladerunner and Dark City and parody, Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid, The Curse of the Jade Scorpion) in order to give it new life. Neo-Film Noir(Seven, Memento, LA Confidential) is also revitalizing the movement, but has proven unpopular with the populace for the most part. <P>And if noir isn't your kind of thing, Burning Moon has action and governmental conspiracies too. "Last Man Standing" is the only film I've seen that combines the pure action and film noir genres, and it's a pretty craptacular movie, but I think that action and noir combinations *can* be good. <P>Any questions, etc, I'm the man to ask.
<P>------------------
There are two kinds of people in this world, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.<P>The Future is Noir: <A HREF="http://burningmoon.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://burningmoon.keenspace.com/</A>
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Postby Chanilye on Mon Dec 03, 2001 3:33 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Uncle Benny:
<B>holy cluster fuck batman, I've lost all knowledge of understanding actual coherent conversations... ummm... ummm...
damn...
If I know what movies I saw that's considered film noir I might have a clue, but as of now, I'm just floating up the shit creek without a paddle...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Don't worry, this isn't an actual coherent conversation, it just plays one on tv ;)<P>Well, I think expert Coota helped you out much more than I could :) Most of my knowledge comes from a musical I was in and all those sitcoms which have a fantasy episode where a main character is a detective in a black and white movie ;)<P>
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Postby Chanilye on Mon Dec 03, 2001 3:39 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carn_Carby:
<B> Are you talking about noir in general or #avanoir? ^_^ 'Cause I think the lyrics and stuff and relationships and connections you and Coota make up are super-spiffy. =)<P>I was trying to play down our addiction to the story, so as not to frighten away people who don't know us ;) But I guess they'd find out the truth sooner or later :)<P>I was talking about the genre in general :) #avanoir is Coota's baby, he just lets me give it its bottle from time to time ;)<P> </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
^_^ A movie fest! Oooh...<P>One of many cool things on the to do list, especially when we need a break from the group singalong ;)<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
"I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way"</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
^_^ Umm... but in The Great Aki Rescue, you are drawn a cute pink bunny!!!! =O ARE CUTE PINK BUNNIES BAD?!?!! O_o *falls over*[/B][/QUOTE]<P>Well, bunnies can be deceptive in their power, just ask Monty Python :) And cute and pink only adds to the danger ;)
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Postby Chanilye on Mon Dec 03, 2001 3:44 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by deathwing:
<B>I love film noir. most of the more recent incarnation of Noir I have liked. there was actually a RPG called noir, I wanted to buy it but I didnt have the money at the time.
Thats actually one of my favorite types of role playing games, we played a whole series of spy/detective games, it was a lot of fun. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>
Hmm, the game title sounds familiar, but I don't think I've actually seen it :) I should check it out and put it on my "things to get when I have money/to ask for as holiday gifts" list ;) <P>I often end up playing the spy/detective/femme fatale role when I game, it's way too much fun :)
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Postby Carn_Carby on Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:14 am

Bladerunner was good. I read the book before I watched the movie, but I remember my dad explaining the book <I>and</I> the movie to me. That was interesting.<P>I checked out an interesting book by H. Beam Piper the other day, it was called <I>Murder in the Gunroom</I>. The main char, Colonel Jefferson Davis Rand, he was a damn slick dude. ^^;; He reminded me of you, Coota. Unfortunately, there were no cool female characters, so nobody reminded me of Chani or Aki. ^_~<P>KN<P>(Grrrr...italics tags...)<p>[This message has been edited by Carn_Carby (edited 12-03-2001).]
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Postby Carn_Carby on Mon Dec 03, 2001 5:24 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chanilye:
<B>Hi everyone <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><P>Recently, thanks to a certain writer, a whole bunch of us from a certain irc channel have become very into film noir <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Um... ^_^ Yes, "very into" can be an understatement, la. =D We're practically slavering fanatics. *quick glance at Coota, sleeping innocently in the channel* *shiver* Umm...I take that back! All of it! Fifth amendment, wot wot?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
So what is it that you like or dislike about this genre? It's funny to me how many of us (including me) haven't seen many of the classics, but still know an awful lot about it through pop culture <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have absolutely nooo knowledge of film noir. =) And due to my shelteredness and various other factors, I have no knowledge of pop culture. O_o What<I>ever</I> shall we do?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
If I had to name one thing I liked, it would be the banter. When you have intelligent characters playing off each other...it's a beautiful thing <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Are you talking about noir in general or #avanoir? ^_^ 'Cause I think the lyrics and stuff and relationships and connections you and Coota make up are super-spiffy. =)<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
Oh, and who's going to host the film noir movie fest, so we can all get caught up? <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif"> I'll bring the baked goods <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><P>Chani
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
^_^ A movie fest! Oooh...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
"I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way"</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
^_^ Umm... but in The Great Aki Rescue, you are drawn a cute pink bunny!!!! =O ARE CUTE PINK BUNNIES BAD?!?!! O_o *falls over*
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Postby Coota on Mon Dec 03, 2001 6:00 am

I probably should have expected that you'd be playing the femme fatale, Chan <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><P>Probably the best noir to start with, if you want an introduction to the genre, is "The Big Sleep." It's part of the romantic noir genre, so it doesn't have as horrible an ending as they usually do, but it still maintains all the usual conventions, while still being a slick movie overall. The dialogue between Bogart and Bacall is classic, matched only by the dialogue in their first movie together, "To Have and Have Not"(also a noir, to a degree). It's also easily available at most video stores, as opposed to more obscure noir. <P>Also, "Bladerunner" is of course a classic modern sci-fi noir, and I can't reccomend it enough.<P>An anime which borrows heavily from noir is Cowboy Bebop: Most of the characters are representations of the classic noir conventions, even though the show itself is a combination of genres(action, noir, sci-fi). I'm glad I remembered it: it's the only successful action/noir combination I've ever seen. As for the conventions, Jet Black is the former cop/hard boiled detective, Spike is the former criminal/hard boiled detective, while Faye and Julia both play the role of femme fatale. And while most of the episodes are combinations of genres, the episodes devoted to Jet Black are almost entirely shot in the film noir style. It's a truly beautiful series.<P>But of course, people have written entire thesis papers on noir, and I'm only minoring in media arts. But I can answer most questions, and I love discussing different aspects of the genre as related to comics and movies of all kinds.<P>------------------
There are two kinds of people in this world, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.<P>The Future is Noir: <A HREF="http://burningmoon.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://burningmoon.keenspace.com/</A>
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Postby Deathwing on Mon Dec 03, 2001 9:13 am

I love film noir. most of the more recent incarnation of Noir I have liked. there was actually a RPG called noir, I wanted to buy it but I didnt have the money at the time.
Thats actually one of my favorite types of role playing games, we played a whole series of spy/detective games, it was a lot of fun.
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Postby Coota on Mon Dec 03, 2001 10:15 am

Yeah, back when I acted in highschool, my favorite characters to play were of the noir variety. I even wrote a short play that was basically a parody of noir conventions.<P>That's probably why a bunch of my comic projects are noir related. That, or fighter pilot related, my other obssession.<P>Hey, and good to see you, Deathwing. It's nice seeing a good mix of people show up on the forums. <P>------------------
There are two kinds of people in this world, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.<P>The Future is Noir: <A HREF="http://burningmoon.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://burningmoon.keenspace.com/</A>
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