I'll review your webcomic.

[LibertyCabbage]

Webcomic: Quest
URL: http://quest.comicgenesis.com/
Creator/s: Elsie Denton
Run: 4/05-current
Schedule: Mondays
Section: Ch. 20, "Temptation"

Website: The site has an attractive fantasy look, complete with magic swirls around the page navigation buttons. The header at the top also has images of masks in it, which relates to the magical mask the adventurers have in this chapter.

There are a good amount of extras here, including info on the comic, an elaborate cast page, a gallery section (that uses attractive Lightbox-style popups), info on the Dungeons & Dragons setting in which the story takes place, and a guestbook. There's a link to a forum, but it gives me a "Forum Not Found" error.

It'd be nice if the archive page was current -- it hasn't been updated in more than six months. There are also a few technical issues -- I noticed a large "Not Found" message on the side of each page, and the header doesn't link to the home page when the reader visits the guestbook section (which also has the word "Test" as its HTML title).

Lastly, there are a lot of miscellaneous drawings in the chapter, and I found them to be distracting obstacles while trying to read through the chapter. They should be moved to the art section.

Writing: The story takes on the Dungeons & Dragons style of following a small group of eclectic adventurers of various races and specializations. Tempting the adventurers, as the chapter's title suggests, is the manipulative Baron, who provides the adventurers with food, lodging, healing, clothing, and transportation, eventually offering them an enormous amount of money for a mysterious magic mask they have, which they refuse.

The creator's given each of the adventurers a distinct personality and attitude, and she seems quite aware of the creative potential in creating tension and conflict between the characters. We see this when the proud Catherine is interrupted by the diplomatic Orion, and when Catherine later undermines the opportunistic Norton. We also get a heated exchange between the carefree Char and the cynical Ghost. This tension amongst the cast makes the story a lot more interesting than it'd be if they all got along, and it helps the reader distinguish the characters from one another, which is especially significant in this comic since the cast is fairly large (the cast page lists seven main characters). There's also a general uneasiness throughout the chapter in that Catherine, the presumptive leader of the group, doesn't seem to get as much respect as she probably thinks she deserves.

One problem with the writing, though, is that the protagonists' hostility with the Baron isn't really given a context. It seems like he did something bad in the past, and his association with the shadowy green guy is mighty suspicious, but throughout the chapter he seems like a really nice guy, going out of his way to help the heroes and give them some free stuff. It does seem like he's trying to butter them up to encourage them to sell the mask, but I imagine if he was really evil, he'd try to take it from them by force. The characters are obviously suspicious of the Baron, so a few lines here or there explaining that suspicion would help the chapter make more sense. As-is, the only character who conveys a legitimate reason to distrust him is Ghost, who doesn't like him because she thinks he might be a half-elf.

The creator's able to write fairly well mechanically, and the dialogue's fairly natural and realistic. It's also pretty clear when the dialogue's in a different language. One weird thing, though, is the creator will randomly capitalize words, like here, here, and here. It's possible this is intended to show inflection, but using bold or underlined text does a better job of that.

Lastly, I noticed that on this page, the creator goes out of her way to note that the top panel's a dawn and not a sunset, but the caption's redundant because the Baron says "good morning" in the last panel.

Art: Don't do this.

The art needs a lot of work, especially the faces. The creator seems to have a decent grasp of facial anatomy, but somehow she manages to screw it up terribly every time, creating a sort-of train wreck out of what could otherwise be a fairly appealing fantasy comic. Strangely enough, though, the Baron is drawn notably better than the other characters, suggesting the creator put extra effort into drawing him, and the figures in the header at the top of the website are also drawn better. It's actually kinda bizarre to constantly see the header's version of what the characters are supposed to look like in comparison to the awful actual drawings of the characters in the comic. Some common problems are with Catherine's face, Orion's jawline, Ghost's everything, and with arms, mouths, and breasts in general, although every aspect of the drawings need work. I suggest the creator either spends a lot more time trying to get the pages to look decent, or she takes a hiatus from the comic to work on anatomy. It might also help if he she tries drawing on a larger surface.

Overall: Quest, with its interesting characters and heavy fantasy aspects, has the potential to attract fans of fantasy stories and role-playing games, but the ugly character renderings are a major deterrent for readers, and give the impression that the creator doesn't take the comic very seriously. The creator should aim to regularly provide readers with at least the same level of quality as currently displayed in the comic's header.

[McDuffies]

A fantasy comic named Quest is sorta like a crime mystery tv show called The Killing.

[LibertyCabbage]

A fantasy comic named Quest is sorta like a crime mystery tv show called The Killing.

At least you know what you're getting into, though. Some of the comics I've reviewed have names that don't have to do with anything, e.g. Chaos, June, DeSTRESS, and Ten Ways How Bendy Straws Saved My Life. And Gloomverse's title is misleading, suggesting it's a dark, gothic comic or something when it's completely the opposite. But these are some of the best comics out of the ones I've reviewed (except for maybe Chaos), so maybe there's a correlation between quality and having a weird or vague title.

The thing with titles, though, is that comics are kinda stuck with 'em.

Also, I realized that trying to do these Monday through Friday is completely unrealistic, so I'm gonna aim for three times a week instead.

[Sly Eagle]

A fantasy comic named Quest is sorta like a crime mystery tv show called The Killing.

At least you know what you're getting into, though. Some of the comics I've reviewed have names that don't have to do with anything, e.g. Chaos, June, DeSTRESS, and Ten Ways How Bendy Straws Saved My Life. And Gloomverse's title is misleading, suggesting it's a dark, gothic comic or something when it's completely the opposite. But these are some of the best comics out of the ones I've reviewed (except for maybe Chaos), so maybe there's a correlation between quality and having a weird or vague title.

The thing with titles, though, is that comics are kinda stuck with 'em.

Also, I realized that trying to do these Monday through Friday is completely unrealistic, so I'm gonna aim for three times a week instead.

My excuse for my comic title is my art partner. She picked it. I couldn't come up with anything better. ^^;

I guess I'll be waiting until Monday, then. Perhaps that is a blessing. >.>

[LibertyCabbage]

I guess I'll be waiting until Monday, then. Perhaps that is a blessing. >.>

I'll probably be able to get it done today. And as for my "three a week" thing, the Krillon Kallane one's old, so by my count I'm only up to two.

[McDuffies]

Ten Ways How Bendy Straws Saved My Life

How can any comic possibly live up to that title.

[LibertyCabbage]

Webcomic: The Prime of Ambition
URL: http://jaadrih.comicgenesis.com/
Creator/s: Naomi Craig, Alyssa Follansbee
Run: 1/06-8/08
Section/s: Ch. 2, pp. 22-42

Website: It's attractive, original, and fully-featured, and it has a clear fantasy theme to it. The creators also use random-banner and mouseover-image code to spice up the site a bit.

There's a good amount of information about the fantasy world and the characters, including the unusual element of giving each characters a theme song, which I think's a cool touch. There's also a notable amount of extra artwork, and some information on the comic and the creators.

The creator-reader interaction in The Prime of Ambition's pretty significant, with a forum, a Twitter feed, a Tag-World board, and news updates from each creator. I think the text on the main page would look more attractive if the creators used a less generic font, though.

Lastly, there's some code on the bottom of the main page that went a little haywire. The creators might wanna fix that.

Writing: This section has a monomaniac focus on the racial animosity between the sun elf Audriel and the drow Thanatos. The 21 pages I read are almost completely about the elven adventurers dissing, competing with, hurting, or threatening each other. In my last review, I praised fostering conflict amongst protagonists, and while this creator's attempting to do something similar, in this case I feel like the hostility's way overblown. Having some racial tension between the characters would be a fine idea, but the subject got boring after only a few pages of it, even though the hostility was slowly intensifying. The banter between Audriel and Thanatos is witty and amusing, so the creator does a decent job of handling the situation, but the situation's stretched far too thin to be saved.

A few ways come to mind how the creator could've handled this section better on a conceptual level:

A) Break the scene up into segments and switch around between the story's various groups, like how the Lord of the Rings movies do it
B) Have a few pages of the elves' racial tension, then move on to the next part of the story, letting the reader know the elves begrudgingly traveled through the jungle together for a while
C) Have the elves' hostility be more severe in the beginning of the section, and then either have it result in serious violence between the two, or have the experience help the elves abandon their prejudice and achieve a sense of camaraderie

Art: The pages where the creator does full coloring and shading, like here, here, and here, look gorgeous, and are notably high-quality artwork for a webcomic. Unfortunately, these pages are sparse in the comic, and far more prevalent are the black-and-white pages. These pages have a lot of background detail (I like the little animals here), and the line art's consistently pretty strong, but they always seem starkly incomplete, and they don't have the skillful shading and color contrast that a purely black-and-white webcomic like Four Tales has. The comic goes through a variety of other visual styles, including flat colors, shaded characters with flat backgrounds, and colored characters on a black-and-white background.

I've criticized inconsistent artwork in a few of my reviews, but it hasn't been as much of a major problem as it is in The Prime of Ambition. Not only is it jarring for the reader and makes the story feel less coherent, but the brilliant coloring makes the colorless pages look particularly dull and underwhelming by comparison, even though they're still pretty well-drawn. It's understandable if the creator can't commit to doing the terrific full coloring because of time constraints, but I think it'd be best if the creators choose one visual style and stick with it, even if it means not necessarily updating as often.

Overall: Both creators display some obvious skill and talent, but neither of them seems to have possessed a clear vision of where the comic was going at the time it went on an extended hiatus. The writer seemed to have been struggling to make a concept work that wasn't that well-thought-out to begin with, and the art's obviously all over the place. Fortunately, though, the impending reboot gives the creators a chance to redeem themselves, and as long as they do a better job of figuring out how they wanna do the comic ahead of time, I think they have the creative abilities necessary to make a pretty good fantasy webcomic.

[Sly Eagle]

Question(s). Is "racial tension" really the only thing happening for you in those twenty-one pages? Did you not feel like you were learning about the characters and the setting at all?

The idea behind this chapter was have the two characters try to get along despite racial differences only to learn that, skin color aside, they really just can't stand each other. It was meant to turn the usual "racism is bad; this person's just like you when you get to know them" tale on its head. I might have done it in less space, this is true, but I was also trying to introduce world setting concepts (such as fae and magic) into what is very much an early chapter.

[LibertyCabbage]

Question(s). Is "racial tension" really the only thing happening for you in those twenty-one pages? Did you not feel like you were learning about the characters and the setting at all?

The idea behind this chapter was have the two characters try to get along despite racial differences only to learn that, skin color aside, they really just can't stand each other. It was meant to turn the usual "racism is bad; this person's just like you when you get to know them" tale on its head. I might have done it in less space, this is true, but I was also trying to introduce world setting concepts (such as fae and magic) into what is very much an early chapter.

Unfortunately, yeah, I didn't get anything outta the section other than that Audriel thinks sun elves are better than drow, and Thanatos thinks drow are better than sun elves. The chapter seems completely hung up on trying to convey this.

"Enemies have to work together" is an amusing idea, but the novelty wears off quickly, and I feel like handling it in two to five pages would've been more appropriate -- a big difference than the 20 pages you gave it. Or if you feel like a scene really does just need a lot of pages, you can always add in an action sequence to spice things up, or cut to a different group of characters temporarily and see what they're up to. But focusing solely on one situation for 20 pages is probably gonna get tiresome for the reader, no matter how interesting that situation might be.

As far as world building goes, keep in mind that just about every fantasy setting out there's based on the same Tolkien stuff (or on D&D, which is blatantly based on Tolkien). Anyone reading your comic should assume there's magic and fae-like creatures anyways.

[Sly Eagle]

As far as world building goes, keep in mind that just about every fantasy setting out there's based on the same Tolkien stuff (or on D&D, which is blatantly based on Tolkien). Anyone reading your comic should assume there's magic and fae-like creatures anyways.

Pardon, but you couldn't be more wrong. If you are going to use magic or supernatural elements, you must establish who can do what, when, and where. It must have rules. If any character can do literally anything, you're cheating and your audience will know it. Some don't care, but for most it will ruin the experience. It's hard to invest in characters or believe they're in danger when magic might pop out of nowhere to solve any problem at any time.

[LibertyCabbage]

The chapter doesn't establish rules for magic, though. All that's shown is that the elves can draw symbols on the ground and make cool stuff happen. Which pages are you referring to that explain the "what, where, and when" of magic?

Also, the potential problems you noted are just examples of bad writing, and can apply to any kind of story. But the readers trust the creator to not do stupid stuff and ruin the story, and the creator doesn't wanna write something dumb and upset the readers, so it doesn't seem like as big a problem as you're making it out to be. And if you're referring to badly written fantasy comics in general, then yeah, having overpowered characters and deus ex machina plot twists obviously isn't good writing.

[Sly Eagle]

The chapter doesn't establish rules for magic, though. All that's shown is that the elves can draw symbols on the ground and make cool stuff happen. Which pages are you referring to that explain the "what, where, and when" of magic?

Also, the potential problems you noted are just examples of bad writing, and can apply to any kind of story. But the readers trust the creator to not do stupid stuff and ruin the story, and the creator doesn't wanna write something dumb and upset the readers, so it doesn't seem like as big a problem as you're making it out to be. And if you're referring to badly written fantasy comics in general, then yeah, having overpowered characters and deus ex machina plot twists obviously isn't good writing.

I didn't explain. I established. The floral-y glyph was elf magic, and the characters argued to show that light elf and dark elf magic is incompatible. If I use a floral-y glyph again, the reader will know that it's elf magic. If a human character makes a glyph, something is WRONG. The drawing in the dirt was a different sort of magic (they called it balance and its use and the dialogue about it should suggest that it manipulates nature). I gather you didn't read the whole chapter, but towards the beginning Than made fire come out of his hand. This used neither a glyph nor a drawing, so it's something else. And then "god" magic is referenced at the end of the chapter, and in the next chapter you see that it is invoked by words. Through the course of the chapter they had three different encounters with fae: the malevolent,the harmless, and the mysterious. The idea is the bits and pieces get fleshed out over time until they form a complete picture. That's the method I'm using for all story elements.

[LibertyCabbage]

I think you're being overly defensive. I understand you intended for the section to shed some insight on how magic works in your setting, but from a reader's perspective I don't get the impression the section's being presented that way. Instead of faulting me, a reader, for being obtuse, you should concentrate on making these elements more overt in the future if you think they're important to your story.

[Sly Eagle]

Of course I'm going to fault you for being obtuse, so a random person who might actually read through all this will take it into consideration and still give my comic a try after you panned it.

And yes, I'm going to be defensive after you make broad statements about me having no clear concept or vision based on reading only the latter half of one chapter. That's like watching a random fifteen minutes out of the middle of a two and a half hour movie and complaining that the conflict wasn't set up well and there was no resolution.

I should have realized you'd do that though, before I posted. I somehow missed that you don't review comics from the beginning, which is a huge liability for us story-tellers. For example, with Derelict: "Major elements, like the monster invasion, and some minor elements, like the reoccurring pinwheel, aren't given any substantial context." Both elements WERE given substantial context, in the pages you didn't read.

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

Of course I'm going to fault you for being obtuse, so a random person who might actually read through all this will take it into consideration and still give my comic a try after you panned it.

FWIW, one person's review isn't usually enough to make me not read a comic. Heck, any review at all is likely to make me check something out.

And LC didn't even give you that bad of a review He didn't say that anything was horrible or irredeemable (he pretty much says so right in the last line of the review), just gave some feedback that you are welcome to either consider or ignore if you feel it is misaimed.

[Sly Eagle]

FWIW, one person's review isn't usually enough to make me not read a comic. Heck, any review at all is likely to make me check something out.

Well, I'm the opposite. When I'm scrolling through looking for recommendations, I'm not clicking on the comics that get the bad reviews.

And LC didn't even give you that bad of a review He didn't say that anything was horrible or irredeemable (he pretty much says so right in the last line of the review), just gave some feedback that you are welcome to either consider or ignore if you feel it is misaimed.

Oh? I read that he said I could redeem myself by scrapping it and doing it over.

[RobboAKAscooby]

And yes, I'm going to be defensive after you make broad statements about me having no clear concept or vision based on reading only the latter half of one chapter. That's like watching a random fifteen minutes out of the middle of a two and a half hour movie and complaining that the conflict wasn't set up well and there was no resolution.

No it's like judging a TV show on one episode, admittedly LC should have read the whole chapter but in the world of webcomics each chapter/arc should be able to be read independently and be representative of the project as a whole.

FWIW, one person's review isn't usually enough to make me not read a comic. Heck, any review at all is likely to make me check something out.

Well, I'm the opposite. When I'm scrolling through looking for recommendations, I'm not clicking on the comics that get the bad reviews.

Well then you're missing out on plenty of good comics, many of the ones I read I have found through BAD reviews - I check to see if they're really that bad and am sometimes pleasantly surprised.

And LC didn't even give you that bad of a review He didn't say that anything was horrible or irredeemable (he pretty much says so right in the last line of the review), just gave some feedback that you are welcome to either consider or ignore if you feel it is misaimed.

Oh? I read that he said I could redeem myself by scrapping it and doing it over.

He never said you should scrap it, merely mentioned that the reboot was a good idea.
EDIT: I just checked your site again and it's relaunch not reboot but I misread it as reboot too.




Now as far as this particular review thread goes I can't really say much about reacting negatively to a review but honestly you're overreacting a bit here, if all LC had to say about my comic was that it was boring and the art was inconsistent (the basic complaints he had for yours) it would have got nothing more that a shrug and maybe a query if something specific stood out.

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

FWIW, one person's review isn't usually enough to make me not read a comic. Heck, any review at all is likely to make me check something out.

Well, I'm the opposite. When I'm scrolling through looking for recommendations, I'm not clicking on the comics that get the bad reviews.

Okay, so good for you. I'm not the only one that will still read a comic after a bad review. In fact, I'd hazard to say a lot of people check out a comic based on a bad review to see whether it really is that bad. I assume you read through other reviews in this thread, since you've commented on his treatment of them. You really feel that you got the worst review out of all the ones LC's looked at?

Somehow I feel that you weren't really prepared to ask for a review. A reviewer isn't going to necessariliy tell you the things you want to hear. And I don't mean that in just the "The reviewer isn't going to tell you they love your comic" sense. They might pick up on something that you reallly don't think is an issue at all. In fact, that one issue may cloud their ability to enjoy the rest of your comic, it may be such a large issue to them. Note that I said to them. LC is one reviewer. Take what you can from his review, and if you feel he missed the mark, go ask other people to review your comic as well. There's plenty of reviewers on the internet who do this kind of thing. LC is not the be all, end all, he's not the arbiter of what comics are good and bad, and he's not professing to be, any moreso than any other reviewer does.

The first time you read someone's review, it's always emotional, it always seems like they said the worst-worst thing, took a knife and stabbed you in the heart with it (unless it brimmed with praise). Even a neutral review hurts at first, because you don't know what to expect. A good rule of thumb is to read your review once, then distance yourself for a bit- take a walk, have some dinner, go to bed, whatever, and then reread it with fresh eyes. You'll find the review a lot less personal the second (or third or fourth) time around.

Oh, don't get me wrong. There are bad reviewers who make ad-hominem attacks for no reason when they write reviews. But LC didn't do that. You said, paraphrasing, "Can you read my comic and tell me what you think about it, what needs to be improved?" And LC did that. And you didn't like what he said. It happens to every single person who's ever asked for a review. The world will keep turning. Take what you can from the review you got here, if you can bring yourself to do so. Then consider asking someone else to look at your work.


editing to add: And Schoob is right. As far as complaints go, "boring" isn't really that difficult to fix. I recently reassembled my comic, cutting the first chapter and combining a shitton of pages to improve the pacing as well as make things a little more interesting. It takes some planning, but it's not that hard. If it's something you want to do, just look through your archives, over and over and over, and see if there's pages you can do without. You might say "Awww, I really like the way this page looked" or something, but do you absolutley need it? Is it something that can't be touched on again later and end in the same effect for the reader? I was wedded to my first chapter, couldn't bring myself to part with it, but gave myself a few months and axed it. The response has been very positive and readership has increased.

And for what it's worth, "boring" to one reader might be fascinating to another. You can't please everybody.

[Sly Eagle]

Okay. If being "prepared" for a review/critique involves not pursuing communication and clarification after getting it, I refuse to ever be prepared. Getting a broad strokes review and then huddling in a cave trying to decipher it like it's the Oracle of Delphi is a waste of time. If you go to a fiction workshop, the teacher expects you to talk with him about the red marks he made all over your draft, not just bow and go do as he says (unless he has no business teaching a workshop.)

Of course I'm frustrated. I explain what I was going for and all I get was "stop being so defensive." And you know what? Fine. We don't need to waste each others' time here.

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

Okay. If being "prepared" for a review/critique involves not pursuing communication and clarification after getting it, I refuse to ever be prepared. Getting a broad strokes review and then huddling in a cave trying to decipher it like it's the Oracle of Delphi is a waste of time. If you go to a fiction workshop, the teacher expects you to talk with him about the red marks he made all over your draft, not just bow and go do as he says (unless he has no business teaching a workshop.)

There's a difference between asking for clarification and saying that the reviewer must not know what they're talking about. By all means, try to figure out what your reviewer is saying. I don't see where I ever said "The review is final, read it and then never speak to the reviewer again!" Hell, we had a whole topic about productive ways to respond to reviews. If you don't understand something, then ask about it, yes. But it's also good to take into consideration in the time that you are defending your comic that your reviewer may be onto something. On the one hand, LC might be the only person who felt that way about your comic, in which case his views are moot. On the other hand, perhaps others out there will also feel the same as him. I would err on the side of caution and listen to what he has to say instead of immediately insisting that he just read it wrong/improperly. Or, as I keep saying, find other people to give you some feedback as well.

I get that you're trying to explain your side of things, that's fine. But LC didn't pick up on those in his initial readthrough, which is what he's basing his reviews on. Maybe you're right, maybe LC is entirely wrong, I can't say (partly because i haven't read the comic), who knows. But the impression I got is that you were digging your heels in as opposed to just gently defending your work. I've seen people do both, and I'd like to think I can tell the difference.

Of course I'm frustrated. I explain what I was going for and all I get was "stop being so defensive." And you know what? Fine. We don't need to waste each others' time here.

Now you're just being silly. No one's time's being wasted, I come here of my own volition, I read what I want to read and comment when I want to, I would imagine you do the same. If you don't want to discuss the matter anymore, that's absolutely fine. And it's also fine to be frustrated when your work or commentary is misinterpreted. But I'm hoping you're not going to walk away with this the same as you were before, I hope you've gained at least something from this entire exchange. Like i said, reviews hurt. But unless the reviewer is really terrible at writing reviews, there's probably at least the littlest grape you can pluck from the vine. Let this one sit for a while, put it on the shelf and forget about it for a while, if it's pissed you off so. But I really stress to you to talk with someone else to review your work. One bad review won't dig your grave as a comic artist.