CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby McDuffies on Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:04 am

Allroses wrote:Unfortunately, I think the more you post, the more the spam infiltrates. Like, "Oh, there's someone actually looking at this thread, I'll put my viagra sports watches medication here!" :-?

I actually have a different impression, that spam goes most often for threads that have been active, but then abandoned for some time. Threads like Keenelven dropdown in Dropdowns&Crossover and Fan Expo in Get-Togethers forum are a spam magnet, they have several pages each but no actual post for a long time. It's like they're trying to find places where noone would notice them (after all they don't want to crank up their google ratings).

It doesn't help that popular webcomics tend to become more insular, and get their own forums, rather than participate as part of a larger community.

That's ok though, comic-specific forums are for fans of the comic, while this forum has always been populated mostly (but not exclusively) by makers.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby robotthepirate on Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:28 am

McDuffies wrote:
It doesn't help that popular webcomics tend to become more insular, and get their own forums, rather than participate as part of a larger community.

That's ok though, comic-specific forums are for fans of the comic, while this forum has always been populated mostly (but not exclusively) by makers.


True. Maybe we could entice some of the more popular writers here so they can talk to people without have to put up with people wine about their comic. Dan Shive rarely goes on his own forum anymore because its full of winey people wining about winey stuff.

Hmm, wine. Ooh! Wine! We could give e-wine to people who post here on a regular basis. Now we need only invent e-wine.

Erm. On the otherhand we don't want the place filled with fans who have tracked down their favourite authors and don't want to discuss anything but how they sparkle when exposed to sunlight.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby Yeahduff on Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:22 am

McDuffies wrote:
Allroses wrote:Unfortunately, I think the more you post, the more the spam infiltrates. Like, "Oh, there's someone actually looking at this thread, I'll put my viagra sports watches medication here!" :-?

I actually have a different impression, that spam goes most often for threads that have been active, but then abandoned for some time. Threads like Keenelven dropdown in Dropdowns&Crossover and Fan Expo in Get-Togethers forum are a spam magnet, they have several pages each but no actual post for a long time. It's like they're trying to find places where noone would notice them (after all they don't want to crank up their google ratings).

Uh, yeah, if that were the case, we wouldn't have a problem.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby VeryCuddlyCornpone on Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:25 am

These forums have been around for a while, though. I'm certain that a good number of the Big Name Webcomic Artists are already familiar with this place.

I think what we need instead of Big Names is more creators from all over the spectrum of e-fame. Particularly people who've been in the webcomic scene for a while but maybe don't have huge numbers in terms of popularity. And noobs who actually are going to stay with comicing, although that's not really a predictable factor.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby Derek Dragomir on Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:21 pm

VeryCuddlyCornpone wrote:These forums have been around for a while, though. I'm certain that a good number of the Big Name Webcomic Artists are already familiar with this place.

I think what we need instead of Big Names is more creators from all over the spectrum of e-fame. Particularly people who've been in the webcomic scene for a while but maybe don't have huge numbers in terms of popularity. And noobs who actually are going to stay with comicing, although that's not really a predictable factor.

Well, today I invited this guy I know from my local CVS pharmacy to try to host his comic here. I've never seen his work, but he has told me that he wants to do comics. Hopefully he'll check it out. I gave him my e-mail if he has any questions.

Also, do you think if the CG forums had a lot more activity, maybe Keenspot would give a damn?

Oh, and another thing. I should mention that one of the reasons that got me into joining comicgenesis was because that I read that if your comic does really well on ComicGenesis, that you could be picked up by KeenSpot. I had also joined SmackJeeves at the time but I prefered the ComicGenesis HTML freedom and bulk file uploading. What I do miss is comparing my comic's performance against other comics on the same host. I had heard that DrunkenDuck wasn't that great compared to those other two so I didn't join them. Anyways, now only ComicGenesis hosts my comic. And you better like it!!!
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby Warren on Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:48 pm

I just joined to whore my comic somewhere besides....

don't even remember the name of the webhost now.

It wasn't Tripod, or 50Megs....

FortuneCity. That was it. Back in the days when they had "neighborhoods", and your URL was a "street address".

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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby Turnsky on Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:58 am

Derek Dragomir wrote:Also, do you think if the CG forums had a lot more activity, maybe Keenspot would give a damn?


Honestly? i'd wouldn't hold my breath on this subject.
A -lot- of folks had their beginnings here, and in reality these days a former shining beacon of entertainment has become something of a shadow of its former glory, and is currently the subject of urban decay.
Really i don't think keenspot gave much of a damn about CG even when i first joined up, practically begging the powers that be for a new server after the previous one had itself a little meltdown.

I've since moved on to Xepher due to basically me having infinitely more control with just a chunk of server space and parked wordpress on it.

works wonders.
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Postby Mo on Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:41 am

what this place needs is more creepy eyeless things.

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...apart from that, as someone who used to be very active when the CG forums were at their peak, and now merely visits every once in a blue moon, I've tried to figure out what the problem with this place is and why so many of the old regulars have abandoned it (Mr Bob, War, Merc, RYClaude, Neko, Robin P, Pimpette, K-Dawg, Soap, M2, Keffria, Komiyan, Corgan, Joel Fagin ohgodthelistjustgoesonandon)... and why the "new generation" of CG forumites have not been able to sustain the same level of activity this place used to enjoy.

I did keep in touch with a few of the old CGers for a while, some of which said that things were just getting too stupid and boring in here. I don't think spam is the biggest problem here - although it certainly doesn't help. I think CG has lost a lot of its heart and soul with some of the people that have left. But maybe that's just me being grumpy and missing the good old days. :shifty:

Most of my favourite CG artists and some of the funniest comic writers are no longer posting regularly here, and it was their art and wit that inspired me and made me want to improve. Maybe CG has developed a bit too much of a "ghetto" reputation where the big talents just don't belong. Heh, I am certain to have offended quite a few people just now but you know, just my honest opinion. SOME OF YOU ARE GOOD, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. Or maybe you don't, but I digress.

Then I thought about what made me come here in the first place, and I think I have come up with perhaps the only solution that would work.

A NEW WAR!

...no, not THE War. What, you think I'm suicidal?

Nope, I'm talking about the CG vs DD war that first brought me here. Why not infiltrate other comic forums - Drunk Duck, Keenspot, whichotheronesarethere? - with a bit of fun provocation - nothing boring and nice like "hey guys please join our forums there's kittens and doughnuts for all", but you know, something... sort of... JAMmy. Maybe even make comics which directly address the Crosby guys, make it funny, post it in their forum... if well executed, this might just get people's attention...

What I'm trying to say is, CG needs to pull a "PR stunt" in the world of webcomics to prove it's alive and kicking. Which, frankly, it doesn't appear to be... rather seems to be crawling and twitching...

You won't get another full-time admin until you can get anyone to listen and acknowledge your existence, and show that CG is worth saving. So what is needed are actions, not words.

And that said I'll leave you to it. XD
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby Derek Dragomir on Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:06 am

I agree. Well, I'm not sure about the war thing cuz I'm not really sure if I'd do it right. It does sound like fun though. But I would like us to actually do something and get this thing running and kicking again. Pleeeeeease?
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Postby Fading Aura on Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:49 am

Mo wrote:What I'm trying to say is, CG needs to pull a "PR stunt" in the world of webcomics to prove it's alive and kicking. Which, frankly, it doesn't appear to be... rather seems to be crawling and twitching...

This isn't a bad idea. There's only one caveat: who would be interested in such a thing these days? It appears that a lot of webcomic artists are quite content to establish their own domain instead of forming groups (something the more popular comics do and seem to be successful with). Letters of challenge come to mind; however, most would recognize it as a blatant attempt at exposure from a dinosaur that most have already written off. The comic culture online just isn't what it was when these PR stunts were used successfully in years past. Cross promotion just doesn't work when someone can purchase an ad on Project Wonderful to achieve the same goal.

If anything, Keenspace / Comic Genesis needs to be a stronger, more organized community. A gaggle of cartoonists can't achieve much if the members are only interested in their own works and how far they can carry them.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby Mastermind on Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:01 am

Derek Dragomir wrote:I agree. Well, I'm not sure about the war thing cuz I'm not really sure if I'd do it right. It does sound like fun though.

http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?f=895&t=67872
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby VeryCuddlyCornpone on Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:55 am

I've only been here since the end of 2008 (lurking and whatnot), so I can't talk too much about "the way things were." Maybe that's why I don't find the pace here to be too offputting, because I never saw what it was like before the decline. Though to be honest, when I first came here and was desperately hitting refresh constantly hoping new people would come online and post (yeah, my freshman year in college was pretty empty), I did backtrack and look through the archives of most of the forums here, so I do recognize some oldbies and some different community memes that I wasn't actually here for. Heh, I was really, really desperate to fit in, so I creeped the Wiki like it was my job- didn't want to be one of those uneducated noobs that comes in all "Heglo I'd like to make a comic where can I find a pencil."

What I'm saying is, I've always had fun here, even during the down-cycles where not too many people were posting, there'd be maybe one or two new posts a day and so forth. It has gotten a bit better in recent months. Unfortunately it's hard to retain people once they've signed up, and I do think, like other people have said, that it's a lot to do with how fractured the webcomic population as a whole is these days. A good percentage of artists aren't part of a community, they just stand alone. Which is fine, I know some people just don't care too much to be part of online comic communities, or they already take care of their bizness on DeviantArt, or they're really busy and have decided to devote their comic time purely to their work as opposed to being part of a forum of sorts.

There's no magic fix to whatever it is that's wrong with these forums. People say that the excitement is gone, the talent is gone, it's not as fun as it used to be, many different reasons that they find valid, and I'm not sure what could be done to change any of that. I'm here, I update my comic when I can, I participate in events when I can, I recommend the site to others. That's pretty much all I by myself can do. If things will turn around, that'd be great. I'd love to see the place a little more lively. As it is, it's not wretched, just... cozy, I guess. I can count the number of regulars on my two hands (maybe some weeks I'll have to incorporate some of my toes) but that's okay to me. However, if the size of the community is dissuading other people from posting, I don't like that. But like I said, I can only do so much as one individual poster.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby McDuffies on Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:01 pm

VeryCuddlyCornpone wrote:These forums have been around for a while, though. I'm certain that a good number of the Big Name Webcomic Artists are already familiar with this place.

I think what we need instead of Big Names is more creators from all over the spectrum of e-fame. Particularly people who've been in the webcomic scene for a while but maybe don't have huge numbers in terms of popularity. And noobs who actually are going to stay with comicing, although that's not really a predictable factor.

Yeah, the forum was always filled more with people just below the line of recognition.

Uh, yeah, if that were the case, we wouldn't have a problem.

It is, actually. There's a few thousands of registered users who have zero posts, but sport spam link in their profiles. It's not a visible problem, but it can't be good for forum'a database.

Also, do you think if the CG forums had a lot more activity, maybe Keenspot would give a damn?

They didn't give much of a damn when we were quite popular. I think they always have own crises that occupy their time.

Oh, and another thing. I should mention that one of the reasons that got me into joining comicgenesis was because that I read that if your comic does really well on ComicGenesis, that you could be picked up by KeenSpot.

Eh good old times when people were starting to play guitar to woo girls, and starting to draw webcomics to woo Keenspot. But 'Spot's criteria was always an impenetrable mystery, I can't say if majority of accepted comics started on CG or not, but my personal impression is that numbers are leaning towards non-CG artists. And then there were some steadily popular CG comics that never got in. I guess the decision was on case-to-case basis, with consideration of other issues like copyright-safety, or the direction in which 'Spot wanted to go at a cartain moment. The only common ingredient was a certain level of built-in fanbase.

This isn't a bad idea. There's only one caveat: who would be interested in such a thing these days? It appears that a lot of webcomic artists are quite content to establish their own domain instead of forming groups (something the more popular comics do and seem to be successful with). Letters of challenge come to mind; however, most would recognize it as a blatant attempt at exposure from a dinosaur that most have already written off. The comic culture online just isn't what it was when these PR stunts were used successfully in years past. Cross promotion just doesn't work when someone can purchase an ad on Project Wonderful to achieve the same goal.

Still it's worth a try, eh? I think the main problem is keeping the thing going, cause it'd be depressing to start it and drag another forum into it, and then after a few pages people lose interest...

I've only been here since the end of 2008 (lurking and whatnot), so I can't talk too much about "the way things were." Maybe that's why I don't find the pace here to be too offputting, because I never saw what it was like before the decline. Though to be honest, when I first came here and was desperately hitting refresh constantly hoping new people would come online and post (yeah, my freshman year in college was pretty empty), I did backtrack and look through the archives of most of the forums here, so I do recognize some oldbies and some different community memes that I wasn't actually here for. Heh, I was really, really desperate to fit in, so I creeped the Wiki like it was my job- didn't want to be one of those uneducated noobs that comes in all "Heglo I'd like to make a comic where can I find a pencil."

To me, even during downtimes this was still a place familiar enough to check in and spend a few minutes. During most active periods I was spending hours here, during least active I was spending five minutes, so in any case time was proportionately well-spent. I'm not crazy about the idea of forums being as active as during the most active periods 'cause I'd need hours just to get through interesting threads, but I don't think we could get that now anyways, now that novelty of webcomics has worn off. Moderately active forum with ten or twenty active threads at any times is a good goal.
The worst times to me were actually times when I didn't manage to get on with the latest batch of newbies. That didn't happen often, dozens of batches of newbies passed through and I think I only had a real problem with them once or possibly twice, but those were actual situations when I contemplated leaving the forum.
On the other hand I think there are some quite cool people right now and the crew is not at all bad. Most of folks are still within five year range from me, which doesn't make me as old as I sometimes feel. I think this would be a good time as any for someone to peek in and decide to stay... well, if it wasn't for all the spam.
But I guess "forum age" makes me a bit worn off... I used to draw more for the forum or do other things that required more time, nowadays I'm content with just posting and looking at other people act. I guess what forum needs is a sustaining power, a critical mass of people who would jump in on any project and do stiff stuff.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby Laemkral on Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:37 pm

I like the idea of a war. Except unlike in college, I no longer have the free time to do pictures and post entries into a jam. Which sucks because I'm actually IN the military and thus totally have all the best settings and props and whatnot. Sorta.

Still, I recall it was a very fun and adventurous time. Couldn't hurt. Especially if those Drunk Ducks remember the first war....
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby IVstudios on Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:30 pm

That brings up an interesting question: How are the other forums doing? The DrunkDucks and such. I've never spent much time on any other forums so I don't know, but is the downturn in activity relegated to CG or is it all comic communities?
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby Yeahduff on Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:17 pm

The other forums I'm on (not comic-related) have also been slow. We're being drained by The Facebook.

McDuffies wrote:
Uh, yeah, if that were the case, we wouldn't have a problem.

It is, actually. There's a few thousands of registered users who have zero posts, but sport spam link in their profiles. It's not a visible problem, but it can't be good for forum'a database.

I meant the superstition that posting attracts the bots. The lack of traffic is more the issue, if anything.
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Postby Cope on Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:44 pm

Mo wrote:what this place needs is more creepy eyeless things.

I say again...
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby McDuffies on Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:41 am

Laemkral wrote:I like the idea of a war. Except unlike in college, I no longer have the free time to do pictures and post entries into a jam. Which sucks because I'm actually IN the military and thus totally have all the best settings and props and whatnot. Sorta.

Though if you tried photographing them you'd get in troble, I figure.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby Terotrous on Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:34 pm

VinnieD wrote:It doesn't help that popular webcomics tend to become more insular, and get their own forums, rather than participate as part of a larger community.

Wait, you mean you have to be popular first, then become insular? In that order?

No wonder it never worked when I tried to make a comic full of in-jokes and then wait for the pageviews to roll in.
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Re: makes me feel all warm n fuzzy inside

Postby Turnsky on Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:49 pm

Mo wrote:*heaps of stuff from mo including creepy eyeless things after cope's own eyes.*


I think, that while a PR stunt would be good on the short term, in the long run i honestly think that comicgen needs to reinvent itself on the whole, and while not only just attracting new blood, but making it worthwhile somehow for those who have been more memorable parts of that community to return and participate actively once again.
I'm not just talking forum activity here, but how comicgen functions as a collective on a whole.
Alas, this takes time and manpower most folks who work on the site do not have.

But yeah, that's how i see it, the whole place needs to be gutted and renovated in order to bring both new and old clientele back into the place.
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