Reader comments.

For discussions, announcements, non-technical questions and anything else comics-related or otherwise that doesn't fit in any of the other categories.
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Rcmonroe
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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Rcmonroe »

yeahduff wrote:Mostly what I mean is this obsession the internet has that elevates reader comments as the most important thing…Basically putting your vision on the auction block to be bought with a kind word or two…There are some who open their mouths and they turn out to have something insightful to say, sure. But on the whole it's mostly just noise.
Reader feedback seems completely random to me. Sometimes I'll reach what I think is a fairly interesting point in the story and I'll get no comments from anyone whatsoever; other times a handful of people will chime in to discuss something I'm doing that I find completely mundane or irrelevant. I chalk it up to the fact that it's only a tiny percentage of your readers who ever bother to comment at all, so you shouldn't take them to be The Voice Of The Readership.

Obviously trolls—and their polar opposite, people who mindlessly heap praise on your work—are of little or no value (and should NEVER effect what you do), but I do believe you can get useful feedback from the 95% of people who fall in between those extremes. But it still can be difficult to make heads or tails of the feedback on a whole, so you gotta pick your spots.

An example: I've received e-mails from:
a) a woman who praises my attention to detail with regards to my female characters' outfits
b) another woman who finds the same outfits totally unrealistic to the point where it mars her enjoyment of the comic
c) a man who was convinced that I must be female due to the obvious care I lavish on the ladies' clothing

What to make of it? I took a few of the critical woman's suggestions (she was nice enough to actually give me some pointers) and went on my way… not because she was critical but because she seemed to grok the truth—I know nothing about women's fashions. Who knows where the other two were coming from.
bustertheclown wrote:This isn't performance art; audience participation is not part of the deal…Relying on feedback to dictate the direction of your work is even stranger…Either way, it dilutes the expression.
Yeah, the notion of altering your vision to pander to the audience seems absurd to me as well. But I think of my webcomic (such as it is) as a personal creative statement… a piece of "Art", of all things. Not everybody who makes webcomics thinks of them that way… some just think of them as something fun and entertaining. There's nothing wrong with that. If you start a webcomic without a clear idea of where you're going to take it, and you're only in it for the yoks or whatever, maybe it makes sense to rely on your readers to point you in a direction.

Yeahduff, when I noticed recently that you started updating again (I hadn't checked your site in months, since it seemed like an eternity since the last update), I almost e-mailed you to let you know I was glad to see you updating again, and to let you know how much I enjoyed the new pages. But I didn't. Because all I probably would have said was "I'm glad to see you updating again, I sure enjoyed the new pages." Which I figured you needed like a hole in the head.

That's 95% of your readership. They'll read what you put out there, but they aren't going to trouble you to let you know about it. The other 5% gets to speak for them, and they probably don't really speak for them. It's too small a sample to be representative.
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Mo
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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Mo »

...Shit, Yeahduff is updating again?



yay :D

(0 out of 6 people found this comment helpful)

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McDuffies
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Re: Reader comments.

Post by McDuffies »

Damn, Yeahduff's updating again? That's tragedy! :cry:

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Aerones
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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Aerones »

I don't want any fan ideas for storylines or anything like that, but it would still be nice to know which characters resonate with the readership and why. The stories I have planned won't change, but if a certain character is more popular than others I may change the perspective of the story a bit. If that makes any sense.

However, with no feedback to work with I'm just gonna keep trudging along, hopping from one character to the next all willy-nilly. Like I have been.
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Mo
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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Mo »

Aerones wrote:it would still be nice to know which characters resonate with the readership and why.
Start killing people off, if the readers care about the character they'll let you know then.

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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Risky »

Mo wrote:
Aerones wrote:it would still be nice to know which characters resonate with the readership and why.
Start killing people off, if the readers care about the character they'll let you know then.
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Kisai
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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Kisai »

Just to add a seemingly random 2 cents to this...

Depending on what you want. Use http://disqus.com/ if you want pretty much everyone to be able to comment (it works with comicgenesis and keenspot sites), use Twitter if you want to keep things more 1:1 (since only stuff you post and reply to will be shown.) You can use Livejournal (paid version required) if you want more of a blog, or you can even use blogger. If you want to keep the content strictly moderated use forums (generally this blows up in your face if you don't actively moderate it.) Individual shout-boxes tend to be more of a "chatroom" than comments, so they also require moderation.

But it's really up to what you want. Years ago when people were asking why we were not ripping off drunkduck's commenting system I made the point of stating that is not a core role comicgenesis would support since the content is primarily static, and this works against it. Since then some headway has been made in fast javascript commenting systems (eg twitter, disqus.)

For reference, CG forums are quickly abandoned, much faster than the comics themselves. If you decide to upgrade to stand-alone server, you can't take your comments from your forums or free server with you (though Keenspot and CG's forums tend to simply get locked when abandoned.) However you can if the comments are part of a third party system (disqus, livejournal, blogger.)

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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Aerones »

Mo wrote:
Aerones wrote:it would still be nice to know which characters resonate with the readership and why.
Start killing people off, if the readers care about the character they'll let you know then.
I knew before I started posting the comic that not everyone would make it through alive. I'm just not at that point in the story yet.
I told a friend which one I plan on offing first and... his reaction was a lot more intense than I expected.
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Yeahduff
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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Yeahduff »

I'm not saying you're a weak person for caring about comments, just that the internet seems to place too much importance on them.
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Aerones
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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Aerones »

And in general I agree with you.
But it'd still be nice to get some kind of feedback.
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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Mooncity »

Sometimes I think so too, but then I think I should be careful what I wish for! :o
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Re: Reader comments.

Post by McDuffies »

To me internet kinda revolves around two-way communication, whatever you do you can expect some kind of feedback and I think that's pretty much the greatest thing about it. It's just that when feedback becomes effortless, it kinda becomes cheap too.

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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Yeahduff »

You're right, but I think too often with too many things soliciting the response becomes the most important goal. On my site, my statement should hold more weight than the statements of others. Otherwise I'd just post on a message board.
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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Risky »

Aerones wrote:
Mo wrote:
Aerones wrote:it would still be nice to know which characters resonate with the readership and why.
Start killing people off, if the readers care about the character they'll let you know then.
I knew before I started posting the comic that not everyone would make it through alive. I'm just not at that point in the story yet.
I told a friend which one I plan on offing first and... his reaction was a lot more intense than I expected.
I've killed off lots of characters... though the ones with names keep coming back to life. So far, nobody has really said anything about it... though my counter is in the low hundreds so that's not surprising.

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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Skwinky »

Kinda throwing back to what Aerones mentioned, how does everyone feel the reader/friend's comment of "Oh you should put me in your comic!"

Perhaps I am too touchy, but I've grown to really hate it. I'm an artist before a writer, so working on plot/script/etc. is always difficult for me, so when I stumble across magical comicplot leprechaun gold, I really want to stick with it. However these people always seem to overlook the fact that comic writers (or any writer really) spend a long time on writing and put so much effort into it, yet think it's so easy for you to comply and easily write them in. I mean, you can definitely write them in. It's so easy. :shifty:

Frustrations! I have them. I might also be incredible biased.
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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Spaceprincess »

Skwinky wrote:, how does everyone feel the reader/friend's comment of "Oh you should put me in your comic!" Perhaps I am too touchy, but I've grown to really hate it.

I hate it too. i've stopped showing my stuff to RL friends. I've never gotten any productive feedback from them. they seem to want to tell you what to do without seeing what you're actually trying to do. I had one ex friend tell me my comic terrible only because I didn't want to work on his idea anymore (his idea being a comic I did all the work on and he took most of the credit for, but thats a long story) or i have a friend tell my brother behind my back that they were a better artist and could do better(though he's yet to do any comics)

as a reader I try to let the person know that i enjoy their comic and try to only offer some technical advice, like suggesting to people if they hand letter to use a g-dang lettering guide, sheesh. As to plots and characters I figure it's their story and they can tell it how they like.

I like to know if people are reading my comic so a 'hey I like your comic' comment is always nice. i've gotten some good tips on improving my website.

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Re: Reader comments.

Post by VeryCuddlyCornpone »

Spaceprincess wrote:I had one ex friend tell me my comic terrible only because I didn't want to work on his idea anymore (his idea being a comic I did all the work on and he took most of the credit for, but thats a long story)
this sounds like a great story

i understand completely if you don't feel like telling it

but just putting it out there

it sounds like a great story.
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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Laemkral »

Skwinky wrote:Kinda throwing back to what Aerones mentioned, how does everyone feel the reader/friend's comment of "Oh you should put me in your comic!"
Seeing as I did a photo comic focused around me and my friends, and that it was a gag comic, it wasn't that much of an issue, my conditions were straight forward for friends: write the script and be available for the photos, I'll put you in. I had two friends take advantage of it and they both wrote scripts and took pictures. They were put into the comic! Everyone else asked and asked but never met my simple conditions, so they never got put in.

But I was kind of an exception to the rule.
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Re: Reader comments.

Post by [geoduck] »

No one's ever asked to be in my comic. Guess I can live with that..
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Re: Reader comments.

Post by Bustertheclown »

Yeah, me neither. I don't believe I come off as terribly approachable as an artist.
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